Andre Miller = Steve Nash?

[Masbee]

Nothing like Nash. Nash was reluctantly given up by Dallas, who was cutting their massive payroll (they dumped Michael Finley, too). Phoenix traded away Joe Johnson and the pick that ended up being Luol Deng to make cap room for a MAX deal for Nash. He was known to be that good.

It doesn't look to me like Miller was Portland's first (or second or third) choice for a FA signing.

Not so.

Cuban wanted to keep Nash. Really liked him. But, Cuban was very worried that Nash was about to break down.

He made Nash a lowball offer, and when Nash balked, Cuban told him to go out and get the best offer he could and Cuban would match the market rate if Nash wanted to stay in Dallas. Cuban knew that Nash would choose Dallas over moving and he thought the market for Nash was limited.

Phoenix saw their opening and made their move to clear cap more cap space.

Cuban was shocked when Nash told him that Phoenix offered a 5 year, $53 mil guaranteed contract - 6th year team option. By the way, that was NOT the MAX Nash could have been paid at that time. A MAX deal would have been around $80 mil for 5 years.

Cuban was more than willing to pay Nash the $10 mil per, but only guaranteed for 4 years.
Also, Phoenix didn't trade Johnson until the next summer, and it was as much about playing time as money.

Dallas was NOT in cost cutting mode. Finley was "dumped" because the league had the one shot amnesty for luxury tax purposes. Cut a player, honor the contract, but the salary of that one team won't count towards lux tax. All teams over the tax cut somebody, not just Dallas. Finley was owed $50 mil on his deal when he was cut.

After letting Nash walk, Cuban went out and traded for Jet (big money player) and did a sign and trade for Eric Dampier and paid Damp, get this....

$60 million guaranteed!!!!

But again, Cuban was afraid Nash was going to break down very soon, and he was obsessed with Shaq. As if Shaq ever paid much attention to Dampier.

 

[Masbee]

Just occurred to me how similar the situation is between us adding Miller and Phoenix adding Steve Nash back in 2004.

Both moves were viewed as somewhat ho-hum free agent signings for good-but-not-elite aging point guards.

Both had really great track records of keeping healthy, although Miller has certainly been better than almost anyone.

Both guys (at least on paper) seem like really great fits for their new respective teams.

Both teams at that time were characterized as having a lot of promising young horses to ride, but not a lot of veteran leadership to guide them.

Miller is two years older than Nash was when he was traded.

I'm definitely not going to predict any NBA MVP in Miller's future. Heck, even an All Star appearance is a stretch, given how many good guards there are in the West.

At this stage of his career, he's often tagged as around the 9th-11th best PG in the league, and was paid accordingly. If Portland can win 60+ games, this would be the season where an aging PG has his perceived value vault way, way up.

I'm glad we've got him locked in at a pretty low price for three years.

Steve Nash:Last Year in Dallas: PER 20.5, Win Shares 9.1 (a bit off from the prior season)

First Year in Phoenix: PER 22.0 Win Shares 11.5 (basically same as 2 seasons prior)

Andre Miller:Last Year in Philly: PER 18.6 Win Shares 8.6

 

[Natebishop3]

Steve Nash:Last Year in Dallas: PER 20.5, Win Shares 9.1 (a bit off from the prior season)

First Year in Phoenix: PER 22.0 Win Shares 11.5 (basically same as 2 seasons prior)

Andre Miller:Last Year in Philly: PER 18.6 Win Shares 8.6

Dallas and Phoenix were two teams that were far superior to the Philadelphia 76ers of last season.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Ah yes.....I remember the debate back on BBB.net when Nash signed with the Suns.

The consensus was that Cuban was right, that Nash would break down over the next 2-3 seasons, and the Suns would regret their foolishness. Didn't quite work out that way.

 

[Minstrel]

The comparison in my mind was to Portland acquiring Pippen. It wasn't Hall of Fame Pippen anymore, but still a very good player with a tremendous amount of veteran savvy and leadership.

It's not a perfect comparison, since Miller doesn't have the defensive pedigree and brilliance of Pippen...but on the offensive side of the ball, I think it's a good comparison. Someone who's a natural floor leader and good at allowing his teammates to do what they do best, in flow.

Prior to Miller signing, I often thought that if this young Portland team could add 2000 Pippen, it would really upgrade the team a ton. They didn't get 2000 Pippen, but they got a player who can be thought of as similar in certain ways. In any case, I'm very happy for what I think Miller will bring to this team.

 

[PapaG]

Andre Miller = Steve Nash?

Oh brother...

 

[PapaG]

The comparison in my mind was to Portland acquiring Pippen. It wasn't Hall of Fame Pippen anymore, but still a very good player with a tremendous amount of veteran savvy and leadership.

It's not a perfect comparison, since Miller doesn't have the defensive pedigree and brilliance of Pippen...but on the offensive side of the ball, I think it's a good comparison. Someone who's a natural floor leader and good at allowing his teammates to do what they do best, in flow.

Prior to Miller signing, I often thought that if this young Portland team could add 2000 Pippen, it would really upgrade the team a ton. They didn't get 2000 Pippen, but they got a player who can be thought of as similar in certain ways. In any case, I'm very happy for what I think Miller will bring to this team.

New things are shiny.

 

[KingSpeed]

Stupid thread. They are NOTHING alike. And Nash had accomplished more as a player prior to coming to the Suns. He led the Mavs to the best record in the league in 2003 (Spurs had the tie breaker so Dallas ended up with the third seed) and they reached the WCF where they almost won without Dirk.

 

[KingSpeed]

The comparison in my mind was to Portland acquiring Pippen. It wasn't Hall of Fame Pippen anymore, but still a very good player with a tremendous amount of veteran savvy and leadership.

It's not a perfect comparison, since Miller doesn't have the defensive pedigree and brilliance of Pippen...but on the offensive side of the ball, I think it's a good comparison. Someone who's a natural floor leader and good at allowing his teammates to do what they do best, in flow.

Prior to Miller signing, I often thought that if this young Portland team could add 2000 Pippen, it would really upgrade the team a ton. They didn't get 2000 Pippen, but they got a player who can be thought of as similar in certain ways. In any case, I'm very happy for what I think Miller will bring to this team.

Another bad comparison. Pippen had 6 rings. It's not even close. Miller's never won a round in the playoffs.

Like everyone has said, Miller's an upgrade from Sergio. I'll take it. Hell, last I checked Sergio didn't even get first half minutes in PRESEASON for the KINGS. Ouch. Will he last the season?

 

[andalusian]

Like everyone has said, Miller's an upgrade from Sergio. I'll take it. Hell, last I checked Sergio didn't even get first half minutes in PRESEASON for the KINGS. Ouch. Will he last the season?

I think the Kings are just being smart with Sergio. They want him to get some time off from Eurobasket...

Oh, wait...

 

[KingSpeed]

The Miller to nash comparison is a huge failure.

Nash was still young and improving when traded, and became the league MVP in 2004 and again the next season.

Miller has been on a downturn for 3 years, and will never be confused with the best player in the league.

They're as alike as Michael Jordan and Sam Cassell.

Sam Cassell has 3 rings. Miller hasn't won a round.

 

[PapaG]

Greg Oden could be Tim Duncan and Andre Miller is Scottie Pippen.

What a few days, Minstrel.

You aren't around much these days, but you're sure doing your best to get responses.

 

[Minstrel]

Sam Cassell has 3 rings. Miller hasn't won a round.

Derek Fisher has won several rings. Roy hasn't won a round. We should trade Roy for Fisher and upgrade this team.

 

[PapaG]

Derek Fisher has won several rings. Roy hasn't won a round. We should trade Roy for Fisher and upgrade this team.

I know you're not this obtuse.

 

[Minstrel]

Greg Oden could be Tim Duncan

If he reaches the ceiling scouts saw for him, sure.

and Andre Miller is Scottie Pippen.

Since no one has said that, I'll assume that's your opinion. Odd opinion on your part...they say and spell their names differently.

What a few days, Minstrel.

You aren't around much these days, but you're sure doing your best to get responses.

It's nice to have an Internet stalker again. This one is unusual on your part, usually you refer to me as "Producer" when you just want to be angry.

 

[Minstrel]

I know you're not this obtuse.

Derek Fisher doesn't have multiple rings? Roy has won a round?

 

[PapaG]

It's nice to have an Internet stalker again. This one is unusual on your part, usually you refer to me as "Producer" when you just want to be angry.

I responded to two of your posts. If that is considered "stalking", let me throw out that you are paranoid.

 

[PapaG]

Derek Fisher doesn't have multiple rings? Roy has won a round?

This is the definition of obtuse.

 

[Minstrel]

I responded to two of your posts. If that is considered "stalking", let me throw out that your are paranoid.

Bitterly bringing up something you disagreed with me about in two separate, unrelated threads, is pretty stalkerish!

 

[Minstrel]

This is the definition of obtuse.

Both of those things were facts. I think denying facts is more obtuse.

 

[PapaG]

Both of those things were facts. I think denying facts is more obtuse.

You were using rings as a comparative. That was obtuse. Not the fact that Fisher has more rings than Roy.

It was a both below your usual standards, but again, I understand why you guys post these things.

 

[PapaG]

Bitterly bringing up something you disagreed with me about in two separate, unrelated threads, is pretty stalkerish!

OK, whatever, Mr. Paranoid. What's next? You "pwn" me?

 

[RoyToy]

Sam Cassell has 3 rings. Miller hasn't won a round.

Too bad Cassell wasn't the starter on any of those teams.

 

[PapaG]

Too bad Cassell wasn't the starter on any of those teams.

I don't think Speed was insulting Miller.

 

[Minstrel]

You were using rings as a comparative. That was obtuse.

KingSpeed was doing that. I was applying his logic as a thought experiment as a discussion point for us (KingSpeed and me). It's kind of mean to call KingSpeed obtuse, but whatever floats your boat.

but again, I understand why you guys post these things.

Us "Producers," you mean? You've figured us out? Watch out for the horse's head in your bed. The "Producers" don't like their schemes being exposed.

 

[RoyToy]

I don't think Speed was insulting Miller.

I'm just tearing down his terrible reasoning.

 

[PapaG]

Us "Producers," you mean? You've figured us out? Watch out for the horse's head in your bed. The "Producers" don't like their schemes being exposed.

Wow, you are paranoid. It's "We Producers", by the way. What happened to your sense of humour?

 

[PapaG]

I'm just tearing down his terrible reasoning.

Not really.

 

[RoyToy]

Not really.

That's fine if you disagree. It just makes you wrong also.

 

[Minstrel]

Wow, you are paranoid. It's "We Producers", by the way. What happened to your sense of humour?

If you think that I was being serious about the horse's head in your bed, I may not be the "paranoid" one here.