Anfernee Simons trade destinations

[Hoopguru]

I still think Chauncey & Joe want Brogdon to help mentor young players.

 

[e_blazer]

Where we finish in three point shooting next year is entirely irrelevant.

Wins and losses matter, even in this upcoming season. Which players are getting experience matters.

Basing roster decisions on where we will rank next year in three point shooting, or blocks, or charges taken, or whatever... that's hopefully not something the Blazers will do.

Experience only matters if it’s the right kind of experience. Three point shooting is central to today’s NBA offenses. Drives to the hoop hinge on knowing that there are 3 point shooters on the perimeter to kick the ball to when the penetration is stopped. How is Scoot supposed to develop that part of his game when the guys he’s dishing to belong to the brick mason’s union?

 

[wizenheimer]

There is also Ant entering Prime, Klay on the downhill

that doesn't change things. Klay has always been an extremely quick touch player that doesn't hold the ball, even in his prime. That's why he worked so well off Curry and Draymond

 

[e_blazer]

because it doesn't matter.

The Blazers won't be winning many games in any case. Spreading the floor for 25-28 wins is useless. Portland should be all about adding whatever rebuilding assets they can gather, not straddling a fence by trying to hold onto vets that have little impact on winning and will not alter a lottery team's trajectory in any positive way. And that's exactly the kind of vets Portland has

personally, the only 4+ year vet I'd be OK with Portland holding onto entering the season is Brogdon because of his ability to mentor young players and his lead-by-example capacity

I get that you see this as the only route forward; I just disagree with you. I think it’s hard for a Blazers fan to trust in the draft process as the key component in a rebuild when it’s yielded such little success in the past. Trades have had a much greater impact on building the most successful Blazers teams.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I get that you see this as the only route forward; I just disagree with you. I think it’s hard for a Blazers fan to trust in the draft process as the key component in a rebuild when it’s yielded such little success in the past. Trades have had a much greater impact on building the most successful Blazers teams.

Walton, Drexler, Roy and Dame say hi.

 

[inconceivable]

Walton, Drexler, Roy and Dame say hi.

Soon enough Shaedon will be on this list, hopefully Scoot too

 

[wizenheimer]

I get that you see this as the only route forward; I just disagree with you. I think it’s hard for a Blazers fan to trust in the draft process as the key component in a rebuild when it’s yielded such little success in the past. Trades have had a much greater impact on building the most successful Blazers teams.

you're right....a rebuild is the only path forward that makes sense, IMO. Committing to role players like Ant before there is a core in place is dumb and certain to take up residence in Purgatory. That's the Olshey method that failed over and over and over for a decade. Right now, Portland has no core players. Sharpe and Scoot are possibilities, but they are the only ones I see

if Ant can return a draft pick or two, maybe a prospec, and a sizable TPE that's a good trade for a rebuilding team like Portland. And the same is true of Grant, Ayton, Brogdon, and Thybulle

and by the way, the trades you speak of occurred when there weren't the trade restrictions in the CBA there are now, and star players didn't have as much leverage in forcing trades

 

[e_blazer]

Walton, Drexler, Roy and Dame say hi.

Two out of four were broken down before they could achieve full success. All needed trades to fill in critical pieces. Dame never got those.

 

[Pinwheel1]

If Ant is coming off the bench his value will be lower. We can't expect to trade a bench player for a starting level player.

Who do you want for Ant? Define starting level player. Can you give me a few examples of who you have in mind?
Whether you start Ant or he comes off the bench, he is going to get you 18-20 points per game because he will still get 30 minutes.

 

[e_blazer]

you're right....a rebuild is the only path forward that makes sense, IMO. Committing to role players like Ant before there is a core in place is dumb and certain to take up residence in Purgatory. That's the Olshey method that failed over and over and over for a decade. Right now, Portland has no core players. Sharpe and Scoot are possibilities, but they are the only ones I see

if Ant can return a draft pick or two, maybe a prospec, and a sizable TPE that's a good trade for a rebuilding team like Portland. And the same is true of Grant, Ayton, Brogdon, and Thybulle

and by the way, the trades you speak of occurred when there weren't the trade restrictions in the CBA there are now, and star players didn't have as much leverage in forcing trades

I’m not committed to keeping any Blazers player currently on the roster. What I am committed to is making smart trades with whatever assets get moved. I don’t consider a ones that only return a bunch of future draft picks to be smart.

 

[wizenheimer]

Walton, Drexler, Roy and Dame say hi.

so do Wicks, Petrie, Walton, Lionel Hollins, Bob Gross, Mychal Thompson, Jim Paxson, Darnell Valentine, Fat Lever, Jerome Kersey, Terry Porter, Sabonis, Drazen Petrovich, Jermaine O'Neal, Zach Randolph, Lamarcus Aldridge, & Nic Batum

 

[wizenheimer]

I’m not committed to keeping any Blazers player currently on the roster. What I am committed to is making smart trades with whatever assets get moved. I don’t consider a ones that only return a bunch of future draft picks to be smart.

who is arguing in favor of making a dumb trade?

it's funny how these "let's make smart trade arguments" seem to happen so often around Simons

Ant for Black + 18 + future 1st + 18M TPE....is that a smart trade for the current Blazer situation?

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Two out of four were broken down before they could achieve full success. All needed trades to fill in critical pieces. Dame never got those.

I never said drafting any guaranteed multiple titles themselves, even if one got us our only title.

Still its clearly the best way to add elite talent to this franchises roster - which completely refutes your point of trades being more important.

 

[e_blazer]

so do Wicks, Petrie, Walton, Lionel Hollins, Bob Gross, Mychal Thompson, Jim Paxson, Darnell Valentine, Fat Lever, Jerome Kersey, Terry Porter, Sabonis, Drazen Petrovich, Jermaine O'Neal, Zach Randolph, Lamarcus Aldridge, & Nic Batum

I didn’t say that the draft wasn’t an important tool, just that it’s not necessarily the key route to building a contender. Walton doesn’t win an NBA title without the ABA dispersal. Roy and LaMarcus never got to achieve success because Roy and Oden broke down. Clyde, Terry and Jerome are your best argument, but they don’t compete without Buck and Duck. Sheed and Pippen are the anti-Clyde team assembled by Whitsitt with trades.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I’m not committed to keeping any Blazers player currently on the roster. What I am committed to is making smart trades with whatever assets get moved. I don’t consider a ones that only return a bunch of future draft picks to be smart.

So you think it was stupid how the Celtics got Tatum and Brown?

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I didn’t say that the draft wasn’t an important tool, just that it’s not necessarily the key route to building a contender. Walton doesn’t win an NBA title without the ABA dispersal. Roy and LaMarcus never got to achieve success because Roy and Oden broke down. Clyde, Terry and Jerome are your best argument, but they don’t compete without Buck and Duck. Sheed and Pippen are the anti-Clyde team assembled by Whitsitt with trades.

If anything your arguments are proving the draft is the key to constructing a winner in Portland - and after those great drafts a team should do trades as the last final step. Appreciate you proving the point.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Who do you want for Ant? Define starting level player. Can you give me a few examples of who you have in mind?
Whether you start Ant or he comes off the bench, he is going to get you 18-20 points per game because he will still get 30 minutes.

If he's coming off the bench every GM in the league will be able to say.
"He's a bench player on ine of the worst teams in the NBA..." In negotiations.

So he's an overpaid bench player on a bad team.

I think he needs to start until we trade him.

I don't have a player in mind. I just want him traded for max value. I'd trade him for a future first round pick, for example.

 

[e_blazer]

who is arguing in favor of making a dumb trade?

it's funny how these "let's make smart trade arguments" seem to happen so often around Simons

Ant for Black + 18 + future 1st + 18M TPE....is that a smart trade for the current Blazer situation?

You’re trying to make this a conversation about Simons, which is not my intention. I see nothing around here but trade proposals that move experienced, talented guys for not much but picks for drafted rookies. I want to see some experienced, talented guys coming back; not just dreck and picks.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I want to see some experienced, talented guys coming back; not just dreck and picks.

Blazers don't acquire experienced guys when Dame is here - actually the opposite in sending out Hart for a pick.

But now that the team traded Dame away, had the 3rd worst record in the league, and has a loaded draft next summer you want to add experienced guys to the roster?

That's a horrific strategy.

 

[e_blazer]

If anything your arguments are proving the draft is the key to constructing a winner in Portland - and after those great drafts a team should do trades as the last final step. Appreciate you proving the point.

Count the Blazers’ draft picks.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Count the Blazers’ draft picks.
View attachment 64899

When Cronin becomes Trader Bob I'll eat my hat.

We'll also need Jody to pay like its 1999 and the NBA abolish all luxury tax.

Until then..... makes sense to prioritize building through the draft.

 

[Phatguysrule]

You’re trying to make this a conversation about Simons, which is not my intention. I see nothing around here but trade proposals that move experienced, talented guys for not much but picks for drafted rookies. I want to see some experienced, talented guys coming back; not just dreck and picks.

I don't think we have any experienced, talented guys that are worth the kind of experienced, talented guys we'd want back. Except maybe Simons... and that might be debatable.

 

[Ed O]

Experience only matters if it’s the right kind of experience. Three point shooting is central to today’s NBA offenses. Drives to the hoop hinge on knowing that there are 3 point shooters on the perimeter to kick the ball to when the penetration is stopped. How is Scoot supposed to develop that part of his game when the guys he’s dishing to belong to the brick mason’s union?

I don't think there's any chance in the world that Scoot is going to stop improving his game because Ant and Brogdon are not on the team.

The main place he needs to improve is perimeter (three point) shooting. After that, it's taking care of the ball and going to his left. While better shooters will space the floor better (therefore maybe making taking care of the ball and driving the the left easier) I find it impossible to believe he'd stop doing drive-and-dish efforts because the team is shooting, say, 35% from three point range rather than, say, 40%. That is a difference of one out of every 20 three point attempts, which is MAYBE a half a game. If Scoot were to let that change his game then he's got bigger problems IMO.

 

[e_blazer]

When Cronin becomes Trader Bob I'll eat my hat.

We'll also need Jody to pay like it’s 1999 and the NBA abolish all luxury tax.

Deflecting much?

I’m not saying that the draft isn’t important for the rebuild. Just saying that giving up talented vets without getting talented vets back, in hopes that future draft picks will be as good as the guys you’ve traded away, is far from a certain way to success and it’s going to take a long time.

 

[e_blazer]

I don't think we have any experienced, talented guys that are worth the kind of experienced, talented guys we'd want back. Except maybe Simons... and that might be debatable.

Then I’d prefer to keep the talent we do have. A three guard rotation of Ant, Sharpe and Simons is all kinds of problems for the opposition.

 

[e_blazer]

I think there are limits to how many young players can be effectively developed at one time. To those who say that getting stuck at mediocrity is bad, I say getting stuck at awful is worse.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Then I’d prefer to keep the talent we do have. A three guard rotation of Ant, Sharpe and Simons is all kinds of problems for the opposition.

And all kinds of problems for us on defense when we realize that's only a two guard rotation and not three!

 

[Ed O]

Blazers don't acquire experienced guys when Dame is here - actually the opposite in sending out Hart for a pick.

Hart was the exception.

Robert Covington (for two first rounders). Norman Powell (for a 22 year old Gary Trent). Larry Nance (for a first rounder). That was all in the span of 11 months, if I remember correctly.

Then we added Jerami Grant (for a first rounder that we haven't had to give up yet) about 10 months later.

Maybe I'm not catching your sarcasm or am confused on the timeline you're discussing, but the Blazers giving away draft picks and/or young players is one of the reasons we're as bad (on the court and in terms of the cupboard being bare moving forward) as we are now.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Then I’d prefer to keep the talent we do have. A three guard rotation of Ant, Sharpe and Simons is all kinds of problems for the opposition.

I would definitely keep that lineup until I we have a better young player than one of those three or until I can get a good first round pick or a starting level bigger 2 way player in exchange for Simons.

 

[Phatguysrule]

And all kinds of problems for us on defense when we realize that's only a two guard rotation and not three!

Which is fine, for the next year or two until we can get Simons traded.