Anfernee Simons trade destinations

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in

Where does Ant land?

  • Spurs

    Votes: 7 15.9%

  • Magic

    Votes: 14 31.8%

  • Nets

    Votes: 1 2.3%

  • Knicks

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Jazz

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Bulls

    Votes: 1 2.3%

  • Other

    Votes: 4 9.1%

  • Blazers 2024/25

    Votes: 17 38.6%
  • Total voters
    44
Tince said:
We were good letting Wes go to make room for CJ, before we wanted to trade CJ to make room for Ant, whom we are not wanting to trade to make room for Sharpe.
Click to expand...

c'mon now....that's a context-free revision of reality

we know that Olshey was always all-in on CJ. Wesley's Achilles injury was an excuse for Olshey to do what he really wanted to do and that was construct a roster that forced Stotts to start CJ by default. The only person who wanted Matthews gone to make room for CJ was Olshey; there was no "we"

next, I don't know of anyone who wanted CJ traded to make room for Ant. People wanted CJ traded because he was an undersized no-defense SG with over-dribbling and hooplock habits, and they wanted to make room for a bigger 2-way SG who had the ability to slide into wing roles, especially on defense. That sure as shit wasn't Ant

the real connection between CJ and Ant that make people wanting Ant traded is that 9 straight long fucking seasons starting an undersized, no-defense SG with no 2-way skills, no wing abilities, and no 3&D talent is at least 8 years too long
 
Last edited:
wizenheimer said:
c'mon now....that's a context-free revision of reality

we know that Olshey was always all-in on CJ. Wesley's Achilles injury was an excuse for Olshey to do what he really wanted to do and that was construct a roster that forced Stotts to start CJ by default. The only person who wanted Matthews gone to make room for CJ was Olshey

next, I don't know of anyone who wanted CJ traded to make room for Ant. People wanted CJ traded because he was an undersized no-defense SG with over-dribbling and hooplock habits, and they wanted to make room for a bigger 2-way SG who had the ability to slide into wing roles, especially on defense. That sure as shit wasn't Ant

the real connection between CJ and Ant that make people wanting Ant traded is that 9 long fucking seasons starting an undersized, no-defense SG with no 2-way skills, no wing abilities, and no 3&D talent is at least 8 years too long
Click to expand...

Matthews never looked the same after his injury, yet he wanted a bigger role. Too bad about that.

As for CJ and Ant, both need to come off the bench. Both are a little overpaid for that role, but in both instances, solid shooting off the bench has a lot of value. Especially when those shooters can create their own shot like CJ and Ant can.
 
Ant is a PG. You are what you can guard — or not guard very well. He’s run the O enough to say he’s a combo guard, or scoring PG. He’s a 1.

Ideally, he’s awesome to have off the bench as a microwave and eater of starter level minutes, but he’s too young to accept just being 6th man of the year when he’s a starter in the League and barely in his prime. He’s too young for that with goals of his own.

Ant doesn’t HAVE to be traded until next summer heading into his final year of contract. And Scoot doesn’t NEED a runway. It’s also asset mismanagement to have them playing together for 16 minutes per game in the back court.

BUT …Toronto misplayed their demands for Siakam and OG for a couple years, and got what they deserved. Adding #14 to Ant and taking back filler, short-term contracts and ONLY a 2-4 pick is an overpay for the Blazers … except that it’s not. It’s the cost of a rebuild.

The best the Blazers can do by Ant is to San Antonio for #4. Houston would be decent, too. Washington is a bit rude, but if it’s for Sarr or Risacher, guaranteed, then being rude is understandable.

Ant is a better guard right now than Risacher MAY ever be as a forward. That’s the risk for the Blazers. No risk-it, no biscuit.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Matthews never looked the same after his injury, yet he wanted a bigger role. Too bad about that.

As for CJ and Ant, both need to come off the bench. Both are a little overpaid for that role, but in both instances, solid shooting off the bench has a lot of value. Especially when those shooters can create their own shot like CJ and Ant can.
Click to expand...

sure. like Lou Williams.

Trouble is when Lou Williams won his 3rd 6MOY award he was paid 8M when the salary cap was 102M. Standardizing 6MOY salary with this season's 136M cap, Williams would have made 10.7M. Ant made 24M

I wonder what the average NBA salary is for 6th-7th in rotation players..? I'd think it would be pretty close to the projected Williams salary

upload_2024-6-14_11-20-42.png

upload_2024-6-14_11-21-18.png

upload_2024-6-14_11-21-56.png

upload_2024-6-14_11-22-35.png

upload_2024-6-14_11-23-28.png

upload_2024-6-14_11-24-8.png

upload_2024-6-14_11-25-7.png

I just think trying to justify keeping Ant as a 6th man fails scrutiny. It's just not realistic. It's a logical contortion that concedes his unsuitability as a starter
 

Attachments

  • upload_2024-6-14_11-20-42.png
    upload_2024-6-14_11-20-42.png
    20.2 KB · Views: 83
  • upload_2024-6-14_11-21-18.png
    upload_2024-6-14_11-21-18.png
    17.3 KB · Views: 79
  • upload_2024-6-14_11-21-56.png
    upload_2024-6-14_11-21-56.png
    19.9 KB · Views: 81
  • upload_2024-6-14_11-22-35.png
    upload_2024-6-14_11-22-35.png
    16.4 KB · Views: 80
  • upload_2024-6-14_11-23-28.png
    upload_2024-6-14_11-23-28.png
    14.2 KB · Views: 80
  • upload_2024-6-14_11-24-8.png
    upload_2024-6-14_11-24-8.png
    15.8 KB · Views: 80
  • upload_2024-6-14_11-25-7.png
    upload_2024-6-14_11-25-7.png
    16.8 KB · Views: 79
wizenheimer said:
I just think trying to justify keeping Ant as a 6th man fails scrutiny. It's just not realistic. It's a logical contortion that concedes his unsuitability as a starter
Click to expand...

Why because of his salary? His ability seems perfect for coming off the bench.

All teams need scoring off the bench. Ant can score
All teams need multiple players who can get you a bucket in the closing minute of a game. Simons can create his shot on 3 levels.
He can come off the bench and he can close games. He has value and he will get his minutes.

Is he being paid too much? I don't care. The only time it really makes a difference to me is when we are on the brink of being a contender and we need to sign the one Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level free agent to get us over the hump. Are we close to that scenario?

Like many others have said, trade Simons in a package that brings back a difference-maker. If not then keep him. What is the worst-case scenario, he walks in two years and we miss out on a late 1st round pick? We would save that salary that you seem concerned with. Really the only salary that is a concern on this team is Grant's. The rest are done after two seasons.
 
this was supposed to be Simons breakout season. The Ant fans (team media) jacked up his stats in podcasts. A dynamic young guard averaging 30/6/8. Portland is getting a bargain with his less then max salary !! Oh, and his defense is improving, so let's move onto the next topic.

In reality, Simons busted his shooting thumb in game in 1. I was surprised it didn't take him long to get back in the flow

Now.. those 30/6/8 numbers did happen, but it wasn't Simons average.

Those mean opponents who wanted to win would throw traps and double teams at Anfernee. It wasn't fair. Simons would get blitzed and try to find a passing lane. Most of the time Chauncey's guys were superglued in the corners waiting for a kick out. Occasionally the screening big would come back to the ball as a release valve.

The secondary offense off an Ant trap was probably the worst in the NBA. Those trappers menaced Simons and would sometimes get a deflection and steal the ball. With everyone shoved on the baseline in Billups broken trap busting sets, turnovers up top became an easy deuce for opponents.

> Things Portland can work on this summer. A new adaptive offense that doesn't begin with putting the 3 best defenders on the baseline. It's just asking for trouble trying to recover in transition defense.

But I have doubts glaring and simple problems will get fixed. The Blazer want to lose for better rookies. If it's broke, then don't fix it.
 
HoopsFanAZ said:
Ant is a PG. You are what you can guard — or not guard very well. He’s run the O enough to say he’s a combo guard, or scoring PG. He’s a 1.

Ideally, he’s awesome to have off the bench as a microwave and eater of starter level minutes, but he’s too young to accept just being 6th man of the year when he’s a starter in the League and barely in his prime. He’s too young for that with goals of his own.
Click to expand...

So what is Ben Simmons when healthy? He can guard all 5 positions.
IMO Ant is SG on offense and needs to be on the floor next to a bigger PG like Brogdon, Banton, or maybe eventually Scoot if his defense improves. Scoot weighs in at 202 with a 6'9" wing. He is big enough to guard SGs.......maybe better than he defends quicker PGs.

They all have goals. But because he is still in his mid-20s he thinks he needs to start? They can't all start. Ant was the 24th pick in the draft. Thybulle was 20th, Murray was 23rd, Robert Williams was 27th. They all want to start but for various reasons, they will not.

My guess as long as he gets to play 30 minutes a game he will be fine. He already got paid with his 100 million contract, and he will more than likely get paid another 100 million before he retires. At his point, I am assuming his goal now is to win, and in order to win, he will need to come off the bench. If not for the Blazers then someone else. (except for a very few exceptions)

How much you make should not determine if you start or come off the bench.
 
wizenheimer said:
next, I don't know of anyone who wanted CJ traded to make room for Ant.
Click to expand...

If I dig up the posts wanting to give Ant, CJ's minutes, will that change your mind?

If by 2026 we don't have people wanting to trade Sharpe, I'll happily eat crow. And that's not me saying we should trade him.
 
Tince said:
If I dig up the posts wanting to give Ant, CJ's minutes, will that change your mind?
Click to expand...

no, not really...you said "before we wanted to trade CJ to make room for Ant". I still don't know who the 'we' was; seems like you were including yourself?

and yeah, I understand rhetorical devices. How about this: the number of blazer fans who wanted CJ traded to make room for Ant was extremely small compared to those that wanted CJ traded to change the back court dynamic by adding more length and defense. Ant has the same deficiencies that CJ had
 
Ant was never drafted to be our primary pg, he’s made to be an off the bench gun slinger.
 
wizenheimer said:
sure. like Lou Williams.

Trouble is when Lou Williams won his 3rd 6MOY award he was paid 8M when the salary cap was 102M. Standardizing 6MOY salary with this season's 136M cap, Williams would have made 10.7M. Ant made 24M

I wonder what the average NBA salary is for 6th-7th in rotation players..? I'd think it would be pretty close to the projected Williams salary

View attachment 64859

View attachment 64860

View attachment 64861

View attachment 64862

View attachment 64863

View attachment 64864

View attachment 64865

I just think trying to justify keeping Ant as a 6th man fails scrutiny. It's just not realistic. It's a logical contortion that concedes his unsuitability as a starter
Click to expand...
Scoot and Sharpe are on rookie contracts so Ants salary is fine for the next two years.

Now paying Thybulle $12 million to be the 12th man....
 
wizenheimer said:
no, not really...you said "before we wanted to trade CJ to make room for Ant". I still don't know who the 'we' was; seems like you were including yourself?

and yeah, I understand rhetorical devices. How about this: the number of blazer fans who wanted CJ traded to make room for Ant was extremely small compared to those that wanted CJ traded to change the back court dynamic by adding more length and defense. Ant has the same deficiencies that CJ had
Click to expand...

The collective we. For me, my feelings on trading CJ (or Ant) are the same as most players. If we can improve the assets on the roster, then I'm all for it.

I have no clue if your theory as to why people wanted CJ traded is correct. I'm unsure of the breakdown of why people want Ant traded between his defense vs him making room for Sharpe. And I probably won't know the percentage breakdown why people end up wanting Sharpe traded between him "not having a killer instinct" vs "injury prone".

What I am confident about is that this board will be discussing trading Sharpe by 2026. If I'm wrong, bump this thread and I'll eat crow. If I remember, I'll bump it on my own and call myself out.
 
Simon’s is slightly above average. The people clamoring to keep him have an overinflated value of his worth.

He probably means more to us then he does to other teams, which speaks volumes about where we are as a team.
 
Tince said:
What is this theory based off of? Is that what was said in his introductory press conference? Or pure speculation?
Click to expand...
When we drafted him I believe he was talked about more as an off guard with Dame and CJ as starters. He did develop onto a back up combo guard, but I still believe his attributes are more shooting. He has not perfected how to get others all that involved as a pg. We drafted the future pg in Scoot.
Anfernee Simons emerges as answer to Blazers' biggest ...The New York Timeshttps://www.nytimes.com › athletic › 2023/12/27 › anfe...
 
Tince said:
What is this theory based off of? Is that what was said in his introductory press conference? Or pure speculation?
Click to expand...
I recall a number of mocks had him designated as shooting guard. But him being small it made since to play combo.

  1. 25. Los Angeles Lakers (via Cavaliers): Anfernee Simons (USA, SG, 1999)

    A high-upside project, Simons is tough to reach on early, as teams have only seen him face high school competition. He's a long-term value pick for his athleticism and scoring potential, although he'd benefit from evolving into a playmaking combo guard.


 
Get rid of the teams dead weight. Thybulle and Robert Williams. That almost = Simons salary.

So we trade Simons, then we're going to be trying to draft a good shooter to replace him.
 
MickZagger said:
Simon’s is slightly above average. The people clamoring to keep him have an overinflated value of his worth.

He probably means more to us then he does to other teams, which speaks volumes about where we are as a team.
Click to expand...

No one seems to have an overinflated value of his worth, they just don't think the realistic return for him is worth much either. So why move him? To save Jody some money? How can we overvalue him if we think he should come off the bench? Everyone says if you get value back for him then do it.
 
Maybe this team should, one god damn time, call a player's bluff, and let them walk if another team offers them an insane contract?
 
beast crnjo said:
Monta Ellis was a low efficiency chucker though.
Click to expand...
That's funny...
I just compared both Simons & Ellis advanced stats. The only thing Simons appears to be better than Ellis at is having a higher TS%.
Any of the other wholistic stats (PER, BPM, ws/48, etc) appear to have Ellis ahead
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Same reason the Warriors moved Monte Ellis.
Click to expand...

I don't think so.
First of all Stephen Jackson and Andrew Bogus was a pretty good return for Ellis.
Secondly Ellis had to go because he didn't get along with Steph and they were a duplication.
Ant gets along with both Scoot and Sharpe and he is not a duplication of either.
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
That's funny...
I just compared both Simons & Ellis advanced stats. The only thing Simons appears to be better than Ellis at is having a higher TS%.
Any of the other wholistic stats (PER, BPM, ws/48, etc) appear to have Ellis ahead
Click to expand...

it's true that Ant is more efficient in a raw comparison. But the missing context changes the picture quite a bit:

* this season, Ant's TS% was .568; and the NBA median was .579
* in Monta's 6th season his TS% was .536. But the NBA median was .539 (yes, it's gone up by that much)

in other words. Ant's TS mark was 98% of the league median; Monta's was 99% of the median

Monta was also a much better defender. His career DBPM was -0.3. Ant's is -2.3. After 6 season's Monta's VORP was +5.9. Ant's is +1.1. But the Warriors knew that Monta was standing in the way of a Curry/Klay back court
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)

Featured content

Back
Top