Anfernee Simons Trades

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KingSpeed

KingSpeed

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Seems like a decent thread subject. I saw a proposal online where the Spurs get Simons, Toronto gets a lot of picks, and the Blazers get OG and Boucher. I assume if Nurk is dealt to Miami, Joe will try to trade Ant for a center.

* Please eliminate the apostrophe from the the thread title.
 
KingSpeed said:
Seems like a decent thread subject. I saw a proposal online where the Spurs get Simons, Toronto gets a lot of picks, and the Blazers get OG and Boucher. I assume if Nurk is dealt to Miami, Joe will try to trade Ant for a center.

* Please eliminate the apostrophe from the the thread title.
Click to expand...
So Masai won't trade OG to us while we have Dame, but he will once he's gone.
 
I think Ant trades have been rejected across the league for a year at least now. I don't think he has much trade value given the size of his contract and the lack of interest in him in general. We should have sold high on him two years ago when Dame was out for the season...him and Nas had their highest trade value that year.
 
AmirIcon said:
I don't think there's a need to move him right now.

I think he could up his value this coming season without Dame.
Click to expand...
Precisely. Ant is going to benefit so much from Scoots drive-and-kick game. If Ant gets back to being a 40%+ 3pt shooter, he’ll be a serious threat to average 25apg.

Ant will still be a secondary playmaker, but Scoot and Dame play a different kind of game. By the time Ant gets a chance to make a secondary play, he may have 10-12 seconds left on the clock with Scoot compared to maybe 6-8 seconds left with Dame (those were numbers I pulled out of my ass based on watching Dame play for 11 years and Scoot for a summer. No real research done).

I think Ant will average 6apg this year.
 
They could probably trade him if they didn't over pay him. Typical Blazers....
 
Good time to revisit the deals given to last year’s guards.

Ant $100m/4 years
Brunson $104m/4 years
Herro $120m/4 years
Poole $128m/4 years
Lavine $215m/5 years

The one guy who is for sure outplaying his contract is Brunson.

Herro and Poole both make more than Ant. It may be bias, but I think Ant’s deal is worlds better. Zach had a decent year 24-25/4/4 on good shooting efficiency. Depending on how Ant does this year, he could almost easily be the 2nd best deal out of the 5.
 
BankTeller said:
Good time to revisit the deals given to last year’s guards.

Ant $100m/4 years
Brunson $104m/4 years
Herro $120m/4 years
Poole $128m/4 years
Lavine $215m/5 years

The one guy who is for sure outplaying his contract is Brunson.

Herro and Poole both make more than Ant. It may be bias, but I think Ant’s deal is worlds better. Zach had a decent year 24-25/4/4 on good shooting efficiency. Depending on how Ant does this year, he could almost easily be the 2nd best deal out of the 5.
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I think Ant is very tradeable. I just don't think that Ant can bring back the value that Cronin places on him. Typical bullshit that we've been dealing with for over a decade now. I don't think it's even debatable that Ant with his contracts still has positive trade value.
 
BankTeller said:
Precisely. Ant is going to benefit so much from Scoots drive-and-kick game. If Ant gets back to being a 40%+ 3pt shooter, he’ll be a serious threat to average 25apg.

Ant will still be a secondary playmaker, but Scoot and Dame play a different kind of game. By the time Ant gets a chance to make a secondary play, he may have 10-12 seconds left on the clock with Scoot compared to maybe 6-8 seconds left with Dame (those were numbers I pulled out of my ass based on watching Dame play for 11 years and Scoot for a summer. No real research done).

I think Ant will average 6apg this year.
Click to expand...

The caveat to me is playing him at SG. I think that's a disservice to him and will only solidify the idea that Ant is more SG than PG. I don't necessarily believe in that. Teams will devalue him if they think that as well. They way he builds his value is by being seen at least as much of a PG as he is a SG. Better for his value to be the PG coming off the bench than starting at SG imo. Ant has played a great PG when he's starting. Yes, small sample size. But you are what you can defend. Ant can't guard bigger SGs. They way for him to get better is defensively and offensively, he needs to get to the free throw line the way Dame did. CJ did not.
 
BankTeller said:
Precisely. Ant is going to benefit so much from Scoots drive-and-kick game. If Ant gets back to being a 40%+ 3pt shooter, he’ll be a serious threat to average 25apg.

Ant will still be a secondary playmaker, but Scoot and Dame play a different kind of game. By the time Ant gets a chance to make a secondary play, he may have 10-12 seconds left on the clock with Scoot compared to maybe 6-8 seconds left with Dame (those were numbers I pulled out of my ass based on watching Dame play for 11 years and Scoot for a summer. No real research done).

I think Ant will average 6apg this year.
Click to expand...
Now THAT is the kind of research I can fully support!
 
BankTeller said:
Good time to revisit the deals given to last year’s guards.

Ant $100m/4 years
Brunson $104m/4 years
Herro $120m/4 years
Poole $128m/4 years
Lavine $215m/5 years

The one guy who is for sure outplaying his contract is Brunson.

Herro and Poole both make more than Ant. It may be bias, but I think Ant’s deal is worlds better. Zach had a decent year 24-25/4/4 on good shooting efficiency. Depending on how Ant does this year, he could almost easily be the 2nd best deal out of the 5.
Click to expand...

I think Ant is worth keeping unless you can get equal value or better. He has a decent contract as you've outlined, but I wouldn't have been looking hard to trade Ant other than for a high level wing or PF and I don't think any were available for remotely reasonable asking prices, e.g. Masai's insane overvaluation of OG based on rumors. I also do think GM's around the league have been sensing Dame's departure and didn't want to help us by getting that Wing or PF unless they fleeced us.
 
inconceivable said:
Dame staying
Click to expand...

raw
 
AmirIcon said:
The caveat to me is playing him at SG. I think that's a disservice to him and will only solidify the idea that Ant is more SG than PG. I don't necessarily believe in that. Teams will devalue him if they think that as well. They way he builds his value is by being seen at least as much of a PG as he is a SG. Better for his value to be the PG coming off the bench than starting at SG imo. Ant has played a great PG when he's starting. Yes, small sample size. But you are what you can defend. Ant can't guard bigger SGs. They way for him to get better is defensively and offensively, he needs to get to the free throw line the way Dame did. CJ did not.
Click to expand...

Great PG?!? Ant???

Offense seemed to flounder each time he was PG rather than Dame.

Has a shoot-first mentality.

Playing him at PG cements the idea he isn’t a PG, impacts Scoot’s growth and likely ensures another lottery trip (although that is the expectation anyway).

Ant’s best position? 6th-man/spark plug.

Then again, I’m a known Ant-be-gone person so take anything I say with some sour-soothers.
 
Simons is part of the tanking frat pack. You won't hear "I wanna win, this ain't fair!" from Anfernee. Play 60 games and get an extended vacation, we've gone 2 years in a row with Simons being a company man. There's no rush to trade Simons at any point next year. When Ant's contract is 2 years lighter, contending teams might bite with young guy, expiring, future 1st for Simons.

Or just trade Simons & Nurk to the Heat right now for Lowry's expiring and Jovic or Jaquez, future 1st. Then Lillard to the Nets for a huge scoop of 1st round picks.
 
BankTeller said:
Precisely. Ant is going to benefit so much from Scoots drive-and-kick game. If Ant gets back to being a 40%+ 3pt shooter, he’ll be a serious threat to average 25apg.

Ant will still be a secondary playmaker, but Scoot and Dame play a different kind of game. By the time Ant gets a chance to make a secondary play, he may have 10-12 seconds left on the clock with Scoot compared to maybe 6-8 seconds left with Dame (those were numbers I pulled out of my ass based on watching Dame play for 11 years and Scoot for a summer. No real research done).

I think Ant will average 6apg this year.
Click to expand...
Ant could average 50 ppg and still be a - in box score. Just an awful defender
 


I know a lot of people don’t think he’s worth anything. But there WILL be a team out there that will give up a decent haul for Ant.
 
I was a lot higher on Ant last summer. But after last season, I have really altered my opinion. He's CJ 2.0, only not as good as CJ 1.0
 
I would make the trade, but flip Brogdan for another pick or two. I think he has more immediate value than Ant.
 
BIG Q said:
I would make the trade, but flip Brogdan for another pick or two. I think he has more immediate value than Ant.
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I’m not sure the Celtics would make that trade right now.

I actually think Brogdon is a perfect fit with this team if this trade goes through. $22.5m/yr for 2 seasons isn’t a terrible contract, and we can’t just gut the team and put abunch of 18-24 yos and expect any foundation to be built. Brodgon is a good vet and can back up either guard position.

We would be fortunate to milk 2 1sts for Ant. Brogdon isn’t going to get you another pick or two unless you’re talking about 2nds. But at that point, I’d rather have some vet leadership on the squad. You really think Ant is worth 4 1sts (1-2 from a Brogdon deal like you’ve suggested)?
 
BankTeller said:


I know a lot of people don’t think he’s worth anything. But there WILL be a team out there that will give up a decent haul for Ant.
Click to expand...


If Chauncey likes Sharpe at SF then I think it is ok. But we are talking about trading a guard for 2 more guards and 2 low first-round picks. This does not excite me as much as some of the other fantasy trades I have seen from fans
 
BankTeller said:
I’m not sure the Celtics would make that trade right now.

I actually think Brogdon is a perfect fit with this team if this trade goes through. $22.5m/yr for 2 seasons isn’t a terrible contract, and we can’t just gut the team and put abunch of 18-24 yos and expect any foundation to be built. Brodgon is a good vet and can back up either guard position.

We would be fortunate to milk 2 1sts for Ant. Brogdon isn’t going to get you another pick or two unless you’re talking about 2nds. But at that point, I’d rather have some vet leadership on the squad. You really think Ant is worth 4 1sts (1-2 from a Brogdon deal like you’ve suggested)?
Click to expand...

No, absolutely not. But if we luck out and get Brogdan and 2 frp's for Ant, take it and then evaluate the value Brogdan carries. Something eventually trade wise has to favor the Blazers. Law of averages.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I am not much of an advanced stats guy. Is Real Plus Minus one of the more accurate ones? Interesting to me that Dame was #2 for Pgs and Ant was number 8 among SGs. Either way, if he averages 50, I will take the chance.

https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/position/2
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Nope. This stat is basically complete garbage.

Its a proprietary ESPN formula. They take estimates of estimates to come up with a ranking.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
If Chauncey likes Sharpe at SF then I think it is ok. But we are talking about trading a guard for 2 more guards and 2 low first-round picks. This does not excite me as much as some of the other fantasy trades I have seen from fans
Click to expand...
Ant for 2 low 1sts and a vet is actually a decent package. Unless we get a long term forward for Ant, 2 1sts at all for Ant is a lot considering he hasn’t made an AS game yet. Some here have mentioned Ant for Ayton, which is a lateral move to me. Guys like Murphy and Jones won’t be available for Ant.

Let’s just say Dame gets his way and he goes to Miami, and we get their 1sts in ‘24, ‘28, ‘30 + swaps in ‘27.

2024: POR, MIA
2025: POR, BOS
2026: POR
2027: POR/MIA, BOS
2028: POR, MIA
2029: POR
2030: POR, MIA

That is a whole lot of picks before we even trade Grant. What Ant trades that are remotely realistic have you seen from other fans that you like?
 
BIG Q said:
No, absolutely not. But if we luck out and get Brogdan and 2 frp's for Ant, take it and then evaluate the value Brogdan carries. Something eventually trade wise has to favor the Blazers. Law of averages.
Click to expand...
If we got 2 1sts for Ant, I think that is the something that favors the Blazers, trade wise. I’d be happy with Brogdon still on the squad. Brogdon can be a mentor that can still actually play. He’s a great third guard to have behind Shae and Scoot. His deal would expire after Shae’s third year.

Next year, with Dame gone for more pieces, we’re going to have more cap space. I’ve been a big proponent of overpaying for a guy like OG next summer for 3 years, expiring the same year Scoot’s rookie extension kicks in. If Grant was on the team still:

Scoot/Brogdon/Mays
Shae/Thybulle/Rupert
OG/Shae/Kris/Little
Grant/Walker/Kris
____/____/____

Suddenly this team looks pretty decent, and this would only be after next summer. Whatever 1sts we get back should be spent looking for the best 6-8+ guys for the next several years. I’m fine overpaying for guys like OG and Grant, but not Turner and Crabbe.
 
Here's my Ant involved trade.
upload_2023-9-4_13-29-56.png
 

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