Another guy they won't pass the ball to

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Mediocre Man

Mediocre Man

Mr. SportsTwo
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Barkley was talking about Nurkic, and how Dame and CJ shoot every shot.

Correct or incorrect?
 
They love to shoot, but they also enjoy making plays - especially CJ.
 
Tend to agree.

Barkley on the Blazers guards:

"These guys, they would not be a lot of fun to play with ... most nights. These guys, they shoot it every time. The only difference is some nights they go in. I think they got more talent than they playing like. They should be in the playoffs.

You've got one of the two or three best guard combinations in the NBA, you should not be a 9-10 seed."

Those guys are both really good players. But, when you're a good player, your job is to make the others life easier. It's not just to come out and get your 20-25 points because you can do that yourself."
Click to expand...

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/i..._blaze.html#incart_river_mobileshort_home_pop
 
He has a point. Especially Dame in the crucial time, nearly always goes for a score.
 
I seem to remember Dame throwing the ball to Aldridge rather frequently. If Nurkic is as good in P & Rs as he looks to be from the videos we've seen, I think he'll get the ball a lot.

Barkley saying something entertaining that isn't exactly true? That NEVER happens.
 
last season, Thompson and Curry shot 37.5 times a game. This year, CJ and Dame shoot 37.5 times a game.

Thompson and Curry averaged 8.8 assists, CJ and Dame 9.4.

T and C averaged fewer minutes too (shot better %'s though).

Did he say that they shot too much and didn't pass enough?


*T and C averaged more ppg than D and CJ do this year.
 
It's difficult for me to find much to argue with Chuckles on this one. Of course they don't shoot it every time but they are both quite ball dominant and don't move the ball quickly when they have it. Steve Jones was famous for "ball movement....player movement" and Dame/CJ really don't do either of those well. Throw in the defensive side of the court and it gets much worse. They are tremendous individual scorers but to compare them to the Splash Brothers seems like apples and oranges.

Thompson rarely dribbles. He had a game where he scored something like 5o points and someone figure out he had the ball in his hands for less than 2 minutes the entire game or something like that. Thompson also plays defense which neither Dame or CJ does and the Splash brothers have a much higher effective shooting percentage.

I just hope at some point they realize they have to play better defense and that going one-on-one (or two) for so much of the shot clock doesn't really help the team that much even when they do score. (ie Damon Stoudamire)
 
The biggest problem isn't that they don't pass the ball, it's who they pass it to.

Other than Allen Crabbe, the guys they pass the ball to are all below average shooters. Aminu and Leonard are shooting .367 and .361 FG%. the league average is .456.

It's hard to rack up assists when the guys you are passing to constantly miss wide open shots.

Charles' point is great players make "the others" better. My counterpoint is, "the others" suck.

BNM
 
TBpup said:
It's difficult for me to find much to argue with Chuckles on this one. Of course they don't shoot it every time but they are both quite ball dominant and don't move the ball quickly when they have it. Steve Jones was famous for "ball movement....player movement" and Dame/CJ really don't do either of those well. Throw in the defensive side of the court and it gets much worse. They are tremendous individual scorers but to compare them to the Splash Brothers seems like apples and oranges.

Thompson rarely dribbles. He had a game where he scored something like 5o points and someone figure out he had the ball in his hands for less than 2 minutes the entire game or something like that. Thompson also plays defense which neither Dame or CJ does and the Splash brothers have a much higher effective shooting percentage.

I just hope at some point they realize they have to play better defense and that going one-on-one (or two) for so much of the shot clock doesn't really help the team that much even when they do score. (ie Damon Stoudamire)
Click to expand...
Huh? CJ and Dame are both almost always among the leaders in miles traveled per game. They move around off the ball quite a bit.

Put KD and Draymond around Dame or CJ and see how few dribbles these guys have to take. Anyone can come around a single curl and make wide open jumpshots. Comparing either of our guys to the situation Klay is in is misguided.
 
Its not hard to see why they don't pass the ball that much. How often do we see them move the ball only to see a very bad shot hosted up or a turnover because no one wants to shoot it? Happens SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO freaken much every game.
 
Since LMA left, who has CJ and Dame had to pass the ball to they could trust?

I really like Barkley, but on this he is a blowhard...
Come on. He knows these things......

I firmly believe that Dame could care less about his numbers if we are winning. He will pass the ball to anyone he can trust. He just doesnt have anyone other than CJ to trust.
 
TBpup said:
It's difficult for me to find much to argue with Chuckles on this one. Of course they don't shoot it every time but they are both quite ball dominant and don't move the ball quickly when they have it. Steve Jones was famous for "ball movement....player movement" and Dame/CJ really don't do either of those well. Throw in the defensive side of the court and it gets much worse. They are tremendous individual scorers but to compare them to the Splash Brothers seems like apples and oranges.

Thompson rarely dribbles. He had a game where he scored something like 5o points and someone figure out he had the ball in his hands for less than 2 minutes the entire game or something like that. Thompson also plays defense which neither Dame or CJ does and the Splash brothers have a much higher effective shooting percentage.

I just hope at some point they realize they have to play better defense and that going one-on-one (or two) for so much of the shot clock doesn't really help the team that much even when they do score. (ie Damon Stoudamire)
Click to expand...
Charles Barkley, lol.

The reason ET has been a revelation (and Crabbe hasn't) is that he can create action. Besides Dame and CJ, no one else can. D and C NEED to shoot/create a lot.

What is the inevitable outcome of "ball movement/player movement"? An Aminu 3 attempt, or an Aminu turnover - not a recipe for success.

What we need is an actual good big that can take pressure off of D and C, by drawing attention. Hopefully, Nurkic is that guy. The truth is we had it much better with LaTurncoat.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Barkley was talking about Nurkic, and how Dame and CJ shoot every shot.

Correct or incorrect?
Click to expand...
A Curmudgeon on these boards quotes a curmudgeon in the media. Barkley is wrong, and for exactly the reasons MM has quoted previously - lack of big man talent.
 
Boob-No-More said:
The biggest problem isn't that they don't pass the ball, it's who they pass it to.

Other than Allen Crabbe, the guys they pass the ball to are all below average shooters. Aminu and Leonard are shooting .367 and .361 FG%. the league average is .456.

It's hard to rack up assists when the guys you are passing to constantly miss wide open shots.

Charles' point is great players make "the others" better. My counterpoint is, "the others" suck.

BNM
Click to expand...
A lot of that has to do WHERE the passes are. I can't count how many times someone is set up for a shot, only to catch a pass at their feet. Hitting guys in their shooting pocket is what separates 'good' PG from 'great' PG.
 
They do share the ball in the 1st QT to try get players involve. Last game due to ball movement we had great 1st on both side of the ball. But its the 4th QT where I see where CJ and Dame where they don't pass the ball very much even if there out there by there self. CJ worse then Dame at this stage of the game. This cause us to have 2 shot clock violation last game.
 
yuyuza1 said:
Huh? CJ and Dame are both almost always among the leaders in miles traveled per game. They move around off the ball quite a bit.
Click to expand...

Sure they are but part of that is moving WITH the ball. Also, often times they run miles to get open to have the ball passed to them....by the other one and many times the run all that way to get a hand off so the ball really doesn't move that much.

I get that many of the Blazers aren't good shooters but until recently, Harkless was shooting better from '3' than Dame. Also, it's tough to shoot well when you get few touches in most cases.
 
And for the record, I think Lillard is too unselfish. Very rarely do I see him miss an open guy.

CJ is more of a ballhog, but this team almost requires that from him.

Barkley probably hasn't watched one Blazers game, not even the ones on TNT. His takes are always so generic, and not just with the Blazers. It's like he comes up with a narrative and just runs with it forever. He sucks at his job, but I guess he's funny so he'll never get fired.
 
For example Barkley is always going on about how we need a post presence and won't win with just jump shooters. Well, we get Nurkic (all the money he doesn't know who that is) and what does he say? "Just another guy they won't pass the ball to"

Fuck him.
 
Dame/CJ may not have the best people to pass to but James freaking Hardin is averaging more assists than Dame/CJ combined and it's not like he has Reggie Miller or Larry Bird to pass to.
 
Scalma said:
And for the record, I think Lillard is too unselfish. Very rarely do I see him miss an open guy.

CJ is more of a ballhog, but this team almost requires that from him.

Barkley probably hasn't watched one Blazers game, not even the ones on TNT. His takes are always so generic, and not just with the Blazers. It's like he comes up with a narrative and just runs with it forever. He sucks at his job, but I guess he's funny so he'll never get fired.
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I watched a TNT a couple of years ago and it was clear none of them did any preparation for the game. CB didn't even know all of the players on the teams. I suppose that's part of their schtick - shooting from the hip on players and teams that they may or may not know anything about.

In the intervening years, I have yet to see much of a difference. Personally, I think it's unprofessional.
 
tester551 said:
A lot of that has to do WHERE the passes are. I can't count how many times someone is set up for a shot, only to catch a pass at their feet. Hitting guys in their shooting pocket is what separates 'good' PG from 'great' PG.
Click to expand...
Also, most passes are being made to stationary players for long jumpers, rather than a moving player for a lay-up. Crabbe, CJ, and Dame are the only players that receive a pass in motion - and most of the time the motion is moving away from, or lateral to, the hoop. That's bad basketball.

Also, most of our passes occur outside the 3-point line. I'd love to actually tally how many passes are made to players within the arc versus how many are those stupid weave passes that keep the ball (and players) within a 20' path at the top of the arc.
 
TBpup said:
Dame/CJ may not have the best people to pass to but James freaking Hardin is averaging more assists than Dame/CJ combined and it's not like he has Reggie Miller or Larry Bird to pass to.
Click to expand...

Have you seen the HOU roster? Have you watched them play. They went out and deliberately surrounded Harden with shooters (the "others" as Charles Barkley calls them) so Harden could play the Steve Nash role in D'Antoni's offense. As a team, HOU (14.5) makes 40% more 3FG/G than POR (10.3).

But, since Dame/C.J. make the majority of our 3FG, the quality of their "others" is much lower than the quality of Harden's "others".

Here are Harden's top 4 "others":

Trevor Ariza: 2.5 3FG/G, 7.1 3FGA/G, .355 3FG%
Patrick Beverly: 1.7 3FG/G, 4.3 3FGA/G, .390 3FG%
Ryan Anderson: 2.7 3FG/G, 6.8 3FGA/G, .404 3FG%
Eric Gordon: 3.5 3FG/G, 9.2 3FGA/G, .387 3FG%
Total: 10.4 3FG/G, 27.4 3FGA/G, .380 3FG%

Dame and C.J.'s top 4 "others"
Maurice Harkless: 1.1 3FG/G, 3.1 3FGA/G, .342 3FG%
Al-Farouq Aminu: 1.1 3FG/G, 3.7 3FGA/G, .307 3FG%
Meyers Leonard: 1.0 3FG/G, 3.1 3FGA/G, .336 3FG%
Allen Crabbe: 1.5 3FG/G, 3.6 3FGA/G, .431 3FG%
Total: 4.7 3FG/G, 13.5 3FGA/G, .348 3FG%

Harden is definitely surrounded by better shooters.

BNM
 
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