Politics Another officer shooting/riot situation

[EL PRESIDENTE]

This was a not a male, it was a confused Gender intersex binary individual who was having a mental breakdown, probably due to their gender identity.

Suicide by police.

 

[dviss1]

All of that is AMERICAN BULLSHIT. This is how they handle knife wielders in other countries. 21 foot rule my ass.

 

[Natebishop3]

All of that is AMERICAN BULLSHIT. This is how they handle knife wielders in other countries. 21 foot rule my ass.

Why should they? If you pull a knife on a cop, why should they put their lives at risk to keep you alive?

If someone pulled a knife on you, would you aim for their legs or arms?

 

[MarAzul]

Two to the chest, one to the head

These guys cut you some slack Brian.
I posted the same thing in regard to that attacker on the Max a few month back. Damn! They were all aghast! Comment like, the one to the head will make it hard to prove self defense.

 

[dviss1]

Why should they? If you pull a knife on a cop, why should they put their lives at risk to keep you alive?

If someone pulled a knife on you, would you aim for their legs or arms?

Because all life matters. Even the mentally ill guy that's wielding a knife. He needs help. Not to be killed.

 

[Denny Crane]

Because all life matters. Even the mentally ill guy that's wielding a knife. He needs help. Not to be killed.

Exactly this. You don't execute someone because they may be mentally unstable.

While the guy may have ultimately been a threat, he wasn't close enough to an officer to reach him with the knife, he wasn't wielding the knife in any kind of attack pose, and a gun vs. knife is overkill when he could have been tazed from plenty of distance.

This isn't military rules of engagement. The cops are supposed to serve and PROTECT.

 

[dviss1]

All of you in here who advocate shooting the knife holding suspect have probably ALL used the idiom:

"Bring a knife to a gunfight".

Y'all always talk about "we need to do something about mental health"

But really, you don't want to do SHIT about it.

 

[dviss1]

Exactly this. You don't execute someone because they may be mentally unstable.

While the guy may have ultimately been a threat, he wasn't close enough to an officer to reach him with the knife, he wasn't wielding the knife in any kind of attack pose, and a gun vs. knife is overkill when he could have been tazed from plenty of distance.

This isn't military rules of engagement. The cops are supposed to serve and PROTECT.

Denny, and this is really hard for me to say, I think we have to understand that some people want these mentally ill people to be killed.

Some people truly believe in survival of the fittest. And I think there are some here who believe this too. And some of them are the same ones that will shout "ALL LIVES MATTER"...

 

[Denny Crane]

For all a cop might know, the guy might have skipped his meds that day.

 

[MarAzul]

For all a cop might know, the guy might have skipped his meds that day.

Chances are pretty good.

 

[dviss1]

For all a cop might know, the guy might have skipped his meds that day.

For all we know, the COP may need meds.

How many police have undiagnosed PTSD from seeing the WORST of us everyday?

Nobody talks about this.

 

[MarAzul]

For all we know, the COP may need meds.

How many police have undiagnosed PTSD from seeing the WORST of us everyday?

Nobody talks about this.

Maybe, but what ever maybe wrong with the cop is a side issue until the policy is changed. They train cops this way.

 

[Natebishop3]

Denny, and this is really hard for me to say, I think we have to understand that some people want these mentally ill people to be killed.

Some people truly believe in survival of the fittest. And I think there are some here who believe this too. And some of them are the same ones that will shout "ALL LIVES MATTER"...

Stop being ridiculous.

The guy called the cops himself and pretended to be a concerned citizen. The cops are compelled to show up. It's their job. The guy was moving towards them, despite multiple warnings, with something in his hand. I have already explained the 21 foot rule and why it's important. Did you watch the videos? I'm guessing neither you or Denny actually watched the videos.

 

[Natebishop3]

Because all life matters. Even the mentally ill guy that's wielding a knife. He needs help. Not to be killed.

You didn't answer my question though.

If someone pulled a knife on you and was moving towards you, and you had a gun, what would you do?

 

[MarAzul]

21 foot rule and why it's important.

That 21 foot rule is real. Here is another I use. Training a person new to a weapon. A small weapon that fits a small hand. When you pull that weapon out, be sure you intend to use it.
Close to 15 feet, three to middle, one to the head. Another if needed.

 

[dviss1]

Stop being ridiculous.

The guy called the cops himself and pretended to be a concerned citizen. The cops are compelled to show up. It's their job. The guy was moving towards them, despite multiple warnings, with something in his hand. I have already explained the 21 foot rule and why it's important. Did you watch the videos? I'm guessing neither you or Denny actually watched the videos.

I've already explained the 21 foot rule is bullshit. It's proven wrong in many other countries that aren't shoot first like ours. I saw those mock up videos. They're nothing but propaganda.

 

[dviss1]

That 21 foot rule is real. Here is another I use. Training a person new to a weapon. A small weapon that fits a small hand. When you pull that weapon out, be sure you intend to use it.
Close to 15 feet, three to middle, one to the head. Another if needed.

Yup. Survival of the fittest.

And @Natebishop3 if someone calls the police to do "suicide by cop" then they are fucking MENTALLY UNSTABLE. They don't need death, they need HELP.

 

[MarAzul]

They don't need death, they need HELP

I agree, the training need to be changed for the police. For the person I was training, no. The person may need help but she ain't it and and being in hers space univited will be final.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yup. Survival of the fittest.

And @Natebishop3 if someone calls the police to do "suicide by cop" then they are fucking MENTALLY UNSTABLE. They don't need death, they need HELP.

How are they supposed to know that? The guy didn't call 911 and say "I'm going to do suicide by cop!" He pretended to be a concerned citizen calling about someone with a knife. If you read the article that Sinobas linked, it says:

"A student's cellphone video captured from a dorm room across the street shows the confrontation play out in the brightly-lit entrance to a parking garage. At least two officers have their guns drawn as Schultz walks toward them with their arms down.
A knife is not visible in the cellphone video seen by CNN.
"Come on, man, drop the knife," one officer says. "Come on, let's drop it," another officer says.
Schultz walks toward them slowly and shouts, "Shoot me!"
"No, drop the knife," the first officer says.
The officers repeatedly tell Schultz to drop the knife and one says, "Nobody wants to hurt you." Another says, "What's going on, man?"
More officers' voices are heard, telling Schultz not to move and to drop the knife. Schultz pauses briefly, then takes three steps forward before being shot once and falling to the ground.
Schultz died at a hospital."

Look how close he is to the cop. That's WAAAAAY closer than 21 feet. That's more like 10 feet, and he was closing the distance.

So let's say you're a cop, you get a call about someone potentially having a knife, you show up and encounter a guy... in the moment..... with something in his hand. He's moving towards you. You're begging him to stop advancing but he isn't listening to you. What do you do? You can't hit the pause button. You can't run away because he has a knife and he's already extremely close.

This is one of those situations that's easy to monday morning quarterback, but in the heat of the moment it's not nearly as cut and dry.

 

[dviss1]

How are they supposed to know that? The guy didn't call 911 and say "I'm going to do suicide by cop!" He pretended to be a concerned citizen calling about someone with a knife. If you read the article that Sinobas linked, it says:

"A student's cellphone video captured from a dorm room across the street shows the confrontation play out in the brightly-lit entrance to a parking garage. At least two officers have their guns drawn as Schultz walks toward them with their arms down.
A knife is not visible in the cellphone video seen by CNN.
"Come on, man, drop the knife," one officer says. "Come on, let's drop it," another officer says.
Schultz walks toward them slowly and shouts, "Shoot me!"
"No, drop the knife," the first officer says.
The officers repeatedly tell Schultz to drop the knife and one says, "Nobody wants to hurt you." Another says, "What's going on, man?"
More officers' voices are heard, telling Schultz not to move and to drop the knife. Schultz pauses briefly, then takes three steps forward before being shot once and falling to the ground.
Schultz died at a hospital."

Look how close he is to the cop. That's WAAAAAY closer than 21 feet. That's more like 10 feet, and he was closing the distance.

So let's say you're a cop, you get a call about someone potentially having a knife, you show up and encounter a guy... in the moment..... with something in his hand. He's moving towards you. You're begging him to stop advancing but he isn't listening to you. What do you do? You can't hit the pause button. You can't run away because he has a knife and he's already extremely close.

This is one of those situations that's easy to monday morning quarterback, but in the heat of the moment it's not nearly as cut and dry.

You keep acting like I give a fuck about this imaginary 21 foot rule. It was made up.

 

[dviss1]

The videos I showed above, the knife weilders are WELL within 21 feet and they are taken into custody ALIVE.

Tell me this:

Why the FUCK do you people who seem to hate and mistrust government, want to give complete control over our lives over to the ENFORCERS of that very government??

 

[Natebishop3]

You keep acting like I give a fuck about this imaginary 21 foot rule. It was made up.

That's very easy to say when you don't have someone holding a knife within 10 feet of you. People don't just drop when you shoot them, unless you hit vital organs. If they're running or moving quickly, it's very easy to miss. But a knife doesn't need to be aimed. You can slash and stab and swing it and you're almost guaranteed to hit flesh. You can still accomplish this, despite being shot, especially if you already have momentum carrying you forward. One of the videos addresses the fact that if you try to use less than lethal, like a stun gun, if you miss you're in deep shit. You only get one shot with a tazer. So now you have to switch to your handgun and he might already be running at you. Knives are extremely dangerous and can cause a ton of damage very quickly with zero training.

The videos I showed above, the knife weilders are WELL within 21 feet and they are taken into custody ALIVE.

Tell me this:

Why the FUCK do you people who seem to hate and mistrust government, want to give complete control over our lives over to the ENFORCERS of that very government??

So, first of all, when he called 911 he told them that the suspect might have a gun, as well as a knife. So that changes how the police are going to react.

Secondly, why should an officer put themselves at risk to take someone alive that is threatening them with a deadly weapon? I get it, in hindsight we know that the person was going through a crisis and wanted to commit suicide by cop. They don't know that in the heat of the moment. They only know that there's someone potentially armed with a weapon. So they show up to protect the community, and this person begins to advance on them. So let's say they do what you want, and they try to disarm him and arrest him, but he catches a lucky blow and they bleed out and die... was it worth the life of a cop to take this person alive?

Should cops just not show up? If they see someone armed with a knife, should they just peace out and leave the community exposed to a threat?

What should be their top priority? The lives of the people in that neighborhood? Their own lives? The life of the person holding a weapon? This guy called the cops. This guy lied to the 911 operator. This guy wanted to be shot and he put them in an impossible position. If someone wants to kill themselves, that's up to them, but as soon as they start putting other people at risk, I lose a lot of sympathy for them. They're putting these cops in a position where they have to weigh their own safety against the safety of someone whose intentions are not clear in the heat of the moment.

 

[dviss1]

That's very easy to say when you don't have someone holding a knife within 10 feet of you. .

I wish they didn't scrub this video from You tube. It was from a body cam. The police is standing in the door way and the man attempts to stab him.

He (the cop) has the wherewithal to grab the mans hand and reach ACROSS his body to grab his taser and take the man into custody. The man was within 2-3 feet of the cop.

It can be done. We need to have diligence instead of just letting our police officers rely on their guns first.