Ant 4/100

[blazerkor]

The pressure is on for him to continue that level of play he showed last season, and take it up another notch. There's no turning back. If he can handle it, he'll be worth every penny.

There's actually no pressure for three years, we just showed him that. We showed him that he can perform at one level for three and a half years and if he just kicks it up a notch for a couple months he'll get paid at whatever notch he kicked it up to without even having to check with other teams to see what he's worth. If you're of the opinion that we did have him go out there and see what was available the only question that I have is why there wasn't any report of that but the news is fresh so maybe I'll get an explanation but until then I'll just assume it's the same business practice we used with CJ, Meyers and others which is to bid against ourselves and overpay for a reason I haven't been able to figure out.

 

[HailBlazers]

I keep seeing that premise thrown around, but have yet to hear of any team that had cap space that was remotely interested in offering Ant close to that amount.

Didn't hear anything because we had to lock him down before tanking. His numbers would have been off the charts if we let him finish the season.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

I'll fucking love my crow. I love Ant but think it's an overpay and will be glad if I'm wrong.

I tend to agree that it's an overpay right now but in 3 years it might be a bargain and I'm going to hope it works out that way.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Didn't hear anything because we had to lock him down before tanking. His numbers would have been off the charts if we let him finish the season.

I tend to agree with you on that also. Thinking Blazers were already done with this negotiation.

 

[TBpup]

Didn't hear anything because we had to lock him down before tanking. His numbers would have been off the charts if we let him finish the season.

Guessing that other teams were aware of that as well. If they thought he was going to really blow up, there would have been offers for him. There were only 2-3 teams with the cap space to do so, and it seems none of them had an interest.

 

[HailBlazers]

Guessing that other teams were aware of that as well. If they thought he was going to really blow up, there would have been offers for him. There were only 2-3 teams with the cap space to do so, and it seems none of them had an interest.

Why would teams waste time/energy offering a guy who wants to stay in Portland under Dame's tutelage. Especially since we clearly traded GTJ/Norm/CJ to bet on Ant's future.

 

[Idog1976]

I hope you are correct. But no where where the actual points of my posts answered or even acknowledged.

You think he's the same as CJ, that was clear and the 11 million discount on money and the 8 year discount on Youth and the fact he's a completely different player is also unacknowledged. What wing is out there that we can get with that salary? Nothing says we can't trade Simons if say Kawhi, Durant or the like is available for trade. I would gladly trade Ant for KD for example. Speaking of which can we trade Ant now yea or nay that I don't honestly know, meaning this summer.

 

[Idog1976]

Didn't hear anything because we had to lock him down before tanking. His numbers would have been off the charts if we let him finish the season.

Exactly, shutting him down only helped us.

 

[RR7]

You think he's the same as CJ, that was clear and the 11 million discount on money and the 8 year discount on Youth and the fact he's a completely different player is also unacknowledged. What wing is out there that we can get with that salary? Nothing says we can't trade Simons if say Kawhi, Durant or the like is available for trade. I would gladly trade Ant for KD for example. Speaking of which can we trade Ant now yea or nay that I don't honestly know, meaning this summer.

We could sign and trade him before his deal is official, but that's not gonna happen.

 

[Idog1976]

I'll fucking love my crow. I love Ant but think it's an overpay and will be glad if I'm wrong.

Fair enough and you will love it. Ant is special you and TBpup I very often agree with, but you guys will see you were wrong on this one. By the way, I was filled with murderous rage over CJ overpay, Crabbe overpay, and many others under Olshey. This is very different IMO.

 

[Idog1976]

We could sign and trade him before his deal is official, but that's not gonna happen.

I would do it if we could get KD.

 

[swish3]

Based on what can be expected next season, Ant is worth a $5M increase from his present $4M to $9M, or maybe a little more. But Simons does not merit a $21M raise in 1 jump to $25M, a value he is likely to fail to achieve. Who in the Blazers history got >$20M in 1 jump?

This is an overpay that just doesn't make sense, and will take away the chance to use that other $16/yr on talented players to win the NBA Championship.

 

[Driew]

Based on what can be expected next season, Ant is worth a $5M increase from his present $4M to $9M, or maybe a little more. But Simons does not merit a $21M raise in 1 jump to $25M, a value he is likely to fail to achieve. Who in the Blazers history got >$20M in 1 jump?

This is an overpay that just doesn't make sense, and will take away the chance to use that other $16/yr on talented players to win the NBA Championship.

Well not Blazer history but Brunson went from $1.80 million contract to $26 million. That's the market thanks to the Knicks.

 

[Strenuus]

There's actually no pressure for three years, we just showed him that. We showed him that he can perform at one level for three and a half years and if he just kicks it up a notch for a couple months he'll get paid at whatever notch he kicked it up to without even having to check with other teams to see what he's worth. If you're of the opinion that we did have him go out there and see what was available the only question that I have is why there wasn't any report of that but the news is fresh so maybe I'll get an explanation but until then I'll just assume it's the same business practice we used with CJ, Meyers and others which is to bid against ourselves and overpay for a reason I haven't been able to figure out.

Whelp we already know how it goes. Wrap it up. Are we in 2026 yet? Everything is already figured out.

 

[TBpup]

You think he's the same as CJ, that was clear and the 11 million discount on money and the 8 year discount on Youth and the fact he's a completely different player is also unacknowledged. What wing is out there that we can get with that salary? Nothing says we can't trade Simons if say Kawhi, Durant or the like is available for trade. I would gladly trade Ant for KD for example. Speaking of which can we trade Ant now yea or nay that I don't honestly know, meaning this summer.

Please try to actually read posts before making blanket, abject statements that are just completely wrong.

Countless times, I've commented on the difference in style and athleticism between Ant and CJ. What I have pointed out is how comparably bad they are on defense... sadly, Ant has often been even worse.
And of course he is younger and cheaper... did you really need me to point out something so obvious? But the fact remains is, he joins Dame as the 2 highest paid players on the team. Just like Dame & CJ were the highest 2 paid players on the team. Neither one of those duos can play any defense, so there are certainly similarities there.

And while Ant has very nice numbers as a spot up, catch & shoot player, if it weren't for Dame getting hurt and sitting out as the Blazers tanked, he would have never been the lead guard where he could jack up his numbers in meaningless games and he would have never been paid nearly this much. So we are basing that raise on a role he will play very little, in games that are way more meaningful.

Happy to debate what I actually said, but making up things that are completely false is pointless.

 

[blazerkor]

Whelp we already know how it goes. Wrap it up. Are we in 2026 yet? Everything is already figured out.

That was just a comment on Ant's contract not his performance. Long guaranteed contracts have not traditionally put pressure on players. That doesn't mean Ant doesn't continue to progress, it doesn't mean he can't be just as good at SG as he was at PG, it doesn't even mean that he won't play up to this contract. Those are all big questions that we'll get answers too but even if all of those things go the best way for us, unless there was an offersheet that Ant told the team about that was for close to what we signed him to but less favorable to us (player options and whatnot) then this contract was just us outbidding ourselves again and that's a mistake every time.

Even if Ant sucks at SG but shows his value in his minutes with Dame off the floor, he could still have trade value. Sharpe could be a superstar before 2026 and a contributor right away. The defensive players (Nas, Hart, GP2 and Justise) could make a huge impact. Grant might be a two way stud. Nurk might actually show his best self consistently. Then we would be a really competitive team with anyone.

 

[tykendo]

I get what your saying Kor and Pup. The Blazers are speculating that he will continue to develop, and build on that nice run he had before the shutdown. That does have risk. Like everyone else in here, we hope the gamble pays off. The one thing i don't doubt about Ant is his character. So i believe he has the integrity, desire, and skill , to live up to that contract. With that comes pressure to perform at a certain level. We all hope he handles it with flying colors.

 

[TBpup]

I get what your saying Kor and Pup. The Blazers are speculating that he will continue to develop, and build on that nice run he had before the shutdown. That does have risk. Like everyone else in here, we hope the gamble pays off. The one thing i don't doubt about Ant is his character. So i believe he has the integrity, desire, and skill , to live up to that contract. With that comes pressure to perform at a certain level. We all hope he handles it with flying colors.

I think we can all agree on that. My concern is that he almost has to re-design his development. He skyrocketed in a role he just won't get much of this year. So, much like CJ, we may not see how good he can be because he won't be in his best role as long as he and Dame share the floor. Doesn't mean he can't be a good/very good player. He just hasn't yet nearly produced results in the role he will be in, versus the one he won't.

 

[tykendo]

He just needs to be himself. Play with instinct. Go with the flow, and not be thinking, instead of doing.

 

[Freshtown]

Interesting debate happening here from non-blazers fans:

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Interesting debate happening here from non-blazers fans:

Throwback to May 2018

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Please try to actually read posts before making blanket, abject statements that are just completely wrong.

Countless times, I've commented on the difference in style and athleticism between Ant and CJ. What I have pointed out is how comparably bad they are on defense... sadly, Ant has often been even worse.
And of course he is younger and cheaper... did you really need me to point out something so obvious? But the fact remains is, he joins Dame as the 2 highest paid players on the team. Just like Dame & CJ were the highest 2 paid players on the team. Neither one of those duos can play any defense, so there are certainly similarities there.

And while Ant has very nice numbers as a spot up, catch & shoot player, if it weren't for Dame getting hurt and sitting out as the Blazers tanked, he would have never been the lead guard where he could jack up his numbers in meaningless games and he would have never been paid nearly this much. So we are basing that raise on a role he will play very little, in games that are way more meaningful.

Happy to debate what I actually said, but making up things that are completely false is pointless.

He also said I was one of the most negative about our draft which is false. That's something I liked that Cronin did. I like Sharpe.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Garland got 5 for 193. WOW, the money being thrown around! I will take Simons at his rate. Their per 36's are identical in most categories outside of Simons shooting far better from 3 and Garland having many more assists.

 

[Idog1976]

Please try to actually read posts before making blanket, abject statements that are just completely wrong.

Countless times, I've commented on the difference in style and athleticism between Ant and CJ. What I have pointed out is how comparably bad they are on defense... sadly, Ant has often been even worse.
And of course he is younger and cheaper... did you really need me to point out something so obvious? But the fact remains is, he joins Dame as the 2 highest paid players on the team. Just like Dame & CJ were the highest 2 paid players on the team. Neither one of those duos can play any defense, so there are certainly similarities there.

And while Ant has very nice numbers as a spot up, catch & shoot player, if it weren't for Dame getting hurt and sitting out as the Blazers tanked, he would have never been the lead guard where he could jack up his numbers in meaningless games and he would have never been paid nearly this much. So we are basing that raise on a role he will play very little, in games that are way more meaningful.

Happy to debate what I actually said, but making up things that are completely false is pointless.

I just think comparing Ant and CJ is a bit ridiculous and comparing 22 to 33 million as though thats the same is also ridiculous. Sure there is some basis for comparison but we have no idea how Ant and Dame will be together. I expect them to be significantly to vastly better offensively and likely better defensively as Dame will have his first full Billups season and I think Ant has the energy, drive and quickness to be a good defensive player. I think the comparison is a bit poor and if anything an honest comparison would show the Ant Dame pairing to be better based on youth and pay alone.

 

[TBpup]

I just think comparing Ant and CJ is a bit ridiculous and comparing 22 to 33 million as though thats the same is also ridiculous. Sure there is some basis for comparison but we have no idea how Ant and Dame will be together. I expect them to be significantly to vastly better offensively and likely better defensively as Dame will have his first full Billups season and I think Ant has the energy, drive and quickness to be a good defensive player. I think the comparison is a bit poor and if anything an honest comparison would show the Ant Dame pairing to be better based on youth and pay alone.

I pointed out many of the differences. Also specified the similarities. We are 'hoping' they will be better defensively, but so far, 10 years of Dame's career and 4 years of Ant's career, means it is just that....'hope', and then more hope that Billups can turn that around in a positive manner. We are also 'hoping' that Ant performs in an off-ball role against bigger players, like he did in a completely different role against smaller players. I've yet to see/read anywhere that spoke to that in terms of why there is good reason to expect that when we didn't see it before. Ant blew up in a role that he won't have this year. Can he do that again in a largely different role? Who knows.

We all hope so.

 

[MickZagger]

Throwback to May 2018

I would way rather have Simons and it’s not close.

I’m not really mad at the Simons contract. He impresses me as a player and I think he’ll just get better and he showed me enough running the point last year.

I just don’t like the combo of him and Lillard in the back court. Trade Lillard and do a massive reset/rebuild of this roster.

 

[Idog1976]

I pointed out many of the differences. Also specified the similarities. We are 'hoping' they will be better defensively, but so far, 10 years of Dame's career and 4 years of Ant's career, means it is just that....'hope', and then more hope that Billups can turn that around in a positive manner. We are also 'hoping' that Ant performs in an off-ball role against bigger players, like he did in a completely different role against smaller players. I've yet to see/read anywhere that spoke to that in terms of why there is good reason to expect that when we didn't see it before. Ant blew up in a role that he won't have this year. Can he do that again in a largely different role? Who knows.

We all hope so.

Well all the differences are what matter. The similarities are moot IMO as they are really one dimensional and thus far speculative meaning we haven't seen what they can do together so this entire thread with many being super upset we paid Ant a completely fair salary is wild to me. It's not like there was a wing available we could spend that salary on and the risk of Ant being disgruntled if we don't make him a reasonable offer - especially after us shutting him down and thereby harming his ability to get a contract - is a risk many seem to be ignoring in favor of the Olshey Redux narrative.

It's 11 million less salary, an 8 years younger player who's far more athletic, radically different mentality and a willing and excellent passer. It's not the same and therefore it's unnecessary and unwarranted to compare the two in a negative light. I really can't wait until the season is 20 games in. Ant/Dame backcourt doubters will be shown the error of their ways and I'm very much here for it.

 

[TBpup]

Well all the differences are what matter. The similarities are moot IMO as they are really one dimensional and thus far speculative meaning we haven't seen what they can do together so this entire thread with many being super upset we paid Ant a completely fair salary is wild to me. It's not like there was a wing available we could spend that salary on and the risk of Ant being disgruntled if we don't make him a reasonable offer - especially after us shutting him down and thereby harming his ability to get a contract - is a risk many seem to be ignoring in favor of the Olshey Redux narrative.

It's 11 million less salary, an 8 years younger player who's far more athletic, radically different mentality and a willing and excellent passer. It's not the same and therefore it's unnecessary and unwarranted to compare the two in a negative light. I really can't wait until the season is 20 games in. Ant/Dame backcourt doubters will be shown the error of their ways and I'm very much here for it.

What is speculative about, Dame has been bad and Ant has been terrible at defense? It may be speculative that they won't be good defensively together, but I would submit it would be far more speculative that that WILL be good defensively together. Fair? Again....for about the 10th time, we all HOPE they work out great, but there isn't a lot from what they have actually done, to suggest they will be that much different from an offensive output and a sadly a defensive output than Dame/CJ were regardless of differences in contract and age. Of course Ant has the chance to grow more, (as someone showed he was bottom percentile defensively) Dame is probably pretty much who he is.

#Hope

 

[Idog1976]

What is speculative about, Dame has been bad and Ant has been terrible at defense? It may be speculative that they won't be good defensively together, but I would submit it would be far more speculative that that WILL be good defensively together. Fair? Again....for about the 10th time, we all HOPE they work out great, but there isn't a lot from what they have actually done, to suggest they will be that much different from an offensive output and a sadly a defensive output than Dame/CJ were regardless of differences in contract and age. Of course Ant has the chance to grow more, (as someone showed he was bottom percentile defensively) Dame is probably pretty much who he is.

#Hope

Its speculative they will be as bad as Dame and McCollum. They are a better pairing in every other metric, price, youth of Ant and offense. We are both speculating here by extrapolating data on performance. I will die on the hill that Ant and Dame will be better than CJ and Dame. You seem to be saying that Ant will be so bad as to make up for the difference in age and money to make it exactly the same as Dame CJ if its not the same. Stop making the comparison and stop pushing the debbie downer narrative. There’s no reason to and its not like we had Mikal bridges ready to sign and then signed Ant instead. Who I ask was available at the wing hmm? Only wife beater Miles Bridges so why does the salary matter if its not an overpay (its not) its cheaper by 33% than CJ (it is) Ant is at least equivalent offensively to CJ (he is) and we really don’t know how the two of them will play together other than conjecture (fact). So since it didn’t cost us a wing, Ant is eminently tradable if we want to go that route and he’s a better value than CJ why complain? Why not be optimistic? Our back court? #Dope

 

[Idog1976]

Also I noticed you didn’t respond to Ant shutting down did us a favor that ended up netting us Sharpe. If he wasn't given a good contract we might have made him angry and even if we matched he’d want out and why not since we promised him a contract (clearly) and then shut him down during a contract yesr. Its not like we gave him $30 million.