Ant 4/100

[TBpup]

Its speculative they will be as bad as Dame and McCollum. They are a better pairing in every other metric, price, youth of Ant and offense. We are both speculating here by extrapolating data on performance. I will die on the hill that Ant and Dame will be better than CJ and Dame. You seem to be saying that Ant will be so bad as to make up for the difference in age and money to make it exactly the same as Dame CJ if its not the same. Stop making the comparison and stop pushing the debbie downer narrative. There’s no reason to and its not like we had Mikal bridges ready to sign and then signed Ant instead. Who I ask was available at the wing hmm? Only wife beater Miles Bridges so why does the salary matter if its not an overpay (its not) its cheaper by 33% than CJ (it is) Ant is at least equivalent offensively to CJ (he is) and we really don’t know how the two of them will play together other than conjecture (fact). So since it didn’t cost us a wing, Ant is eminently tradable if we want to go that route and he’s a better value than CJ why complain? Why not be optimistic? Our back court? #Dope

Better how? Offensively? Possibly. Defensively? Maybe, but still likely not very good unless there are SIGNIFICANT changes. Again, you're extrapolating things I didn't say at all.....not sure why you keep doing that. Who knows what Ant will be. We do know what Dame has been defensively and what Ant has been defensively. We know what Dame has been offensively and Ant showed a big leap last year....but he will not be in that same position/spot/scenario for the large portion of his time on the court his year. So again, we don't know what he will be like in the role that will be asked of him. Not one time have I said anything would be exactly the same....come on, be better.

There is no Debbie downer narrative. In fact, how many times did I mention 'hope' and Ant's ability to grow? You keep conveniently leaving that out. And if you think spending whatever on any player(s) is wise, look back to how well that has worked out in the passed for this franchise. We are now limited because we have no space under the apron.

Perhaps I'll just let this go, because you continue to attribute things to me that I haven't said or posted, so it's somewhat pointless.

 

[Idog1976]

Better how? Offensively? Possibly. Defensively? Maybe, but still likely not very good unless there are SIGNIFICANT changes. Again, you're extrapolating things I didn't say at all.....not sure why you keep doing that. Who knows what Ant will be. We do know what Dame has been defensively and what Ant has been defensively. We know what Dame has been offensively and Ant showed a big leap last year....but he will not be in that same position/spot/scenario for the large portion of his time on the court his year. So again, we don't know what he will be like in the role that will be asked of him. Not one time have I said anything would be exactly the same....come on, be better.

There is no Debbie downer narrative. In fact, how many times did I mention 'hope' and Ant's ability to grow? You keep conveniently leaving that out. And if you think spending whatever on any player(s) is wise, look back to how well that has worked out in the passed for this franchise. We are now limited because we have no space under the apron.

Perhaps I'll just let this go, because you continue to attribute things to me that I haven't said or posted, so it's somewhat pointless.

Not everything I say is stuff you've said, but rather the side of people in general who think the Ant signing is bad to horrible. I apologize for not being clear about that, but I also think saying this is a bad signing (hopefully I'm not incorrect about that as well?) is just a head-scratcher for me. If it's an overpay, and I'm skeptical of that, it's very slight for Ant's level of talent and potential at his age. I strongly suspect this will look like an amazingly cheap contract in a couple of years. I just don't think this is a negative signing at all. Of course, it would have been nice if he went much lower, but I don't think it's a gross overpay by any means. I also think that Ant and Dame which we've only seen apart, show what to my eyes are highly complementary skills. Ant has PG skills to help break double teams on Dame, he is among the very best in the league at spot-up shooting, which bodes well with Dame's incredible vision and gravity. Further, I really think Ant might develop as a defender. He has all the athleticism and speed to do it, it's simply a matter of will, effort, and energy. I think his defense will certainly get better and there's no reason it couldn't get much better as you say he's bad at defense, the question is why, and can that change? There are no physical reasons he can't be a better defender (maybe strength?). We will see what happens and I will let it go my apologies if I misrepresented you at any point. I definitely meant some of this as the overall rhetoric in the thread and chose to respond to you precisely because I respect you and Blazerkor's opinions and I'm a bit shocked you both didn't like this or felt it was an overpay. I will definitely let it go and didn't mean to offend and apologize for any misrepresentation of your specific claims.

 

[swish3]

Repeating my question, what are the largest salary jumps the Blazers have ever given?

The $21/yr jump for Simons is a $16M/yr overpay, and for him to excel in a position that he has not been shown to master. Simons loses the ball, is only fair at passing, and doesn't play defense.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Wait. What?

FAMS?

This for real?

 

[Driew]

Repeating my question, what are the largest salary jumps the Blazers have ever given? The $21/yr jump for Simons is a $16M/yr overpay, and for him to excel in a position that he has not been shown to master. Simons looses the ball, is only fair at passing, and doesn't play defense.

For a person who cares about threes so much....Simons had the most threes made in their first 30 starts ever. Brunson got paid $106 million and made the market. Simon's agent would be fired if he didn't at least demand something close to that. Brunson made $1.80 million so both him and Simons got a huge pay bump.

It's likely that we're "overpaying' Simons this year but this contract is going to look very reasonable next year and the year after that for Simon's production he gives us. It's also likely Ant will be our "Poole" this season and comes off the bench as our sixth man with Hart starting to provide defense in the backcourt. Ant would then be playing with GP2 on the second unit who is also very good at defense.

So to answer your question much like Dame we have a defensive minded SG in Hart to cover for Dame's lack of defense and we have a defensive minded GP2 to cover for Ant on the second unit--plus Ant would be the primary ball handler on the second unit which he excelled at this past season.

Dame and Ant will probably close games though if they're both hot. If anything we were SEVERELY underpaying Ant for what he was bringing to the table last year so this is us getting him on a nice deal for four years when he blows up.

I'd MUCH rather be paying Ant $25 million versus CJ at $33 million. That extra $8 million allowed us to sign another player like GP2.

Edit: To answer your question since you don't seem to understand how NBA contracts work...Ant was on a rookie contract. Last Blazers that had a huge jump from their rookie contract? How about CJ. He was making $3.2 million and next season he made $23.9 million

Simons made $3.9 million last year and next year he'll make $22.3 Million

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-orleans-pelicans/cj-mccollum-13323/cash-earnings/

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/portland-trail-blazers/anfernee-simons-26990/cash-earnings/

 

[swish3]

For a person who cares about threes so much....Simons had the most threes made in their first 30 starts ever. Brunson got paid $106 million and made the market. Simon's agent would be fired if he didn't at least demand something close to that. Brunson made $1.80 million so both him and Simons got a huge pay bump.

It's likely that we're "overpaying' Simons this year but this contract is going to look very reasonable next year and the year after that for Simon's production he gives us. It's also likely Ant will be our "Poole" this season and comes off the bench as our sixth man with Hart starting to provide defense in the backcourt. Ant would then be playing with GP2 on the second unit who is also very good at defense.

So to answer your question much like Dame we have a defensive minded SG in Hart to cover for Dame's lack of defense and we have a defensive minded GP2 to cover for Ant on the second unit--plus Ant would be the primary ball handler on the second unit which he excelled at this past season.

Dame and Ant will probably close games though if they're both hot. If anything we were SEVERELY underpaying Ant for what he was bringing to the table last year so this is us getting him on a nice deal for four years when he blows up.

I'd MUCH rather be paying Ant $25 million versus CJ at $33 million. That extra $8 million allowed us to sign another player like GP2.

Edit: To answer your question since you don't seem to understand how NBA contracts work...Ant was on a rookie contract. Last Blazers that had a huge jump from their rookie contract? How about CJ. He was making $3.2 million and next season he made $23.9 million

It is true that Simons made a lot of swish3s, which do impress me and justify his re-signing, but a more modest pay increase, perhaps to 9 to 18 million dollars per year would leave some room for the Blazers to work on the PF position.

I agree that Dame with Hart and Simons with Payton will promise a major competitive improvement. But I don't expect that Simons is worth 2X what Hart will be worth next season. I understand that there is a jump from the rookie to regular contract, but that jump is presently unreasonably out of balance with other players. It would be better to have Simons on a smaller contract until he shows that he can be worth more than $20M/yr by play in the 22-23 season. Thanks for the report on the step up that CJ got, which I did not know. Let's imagine the best for Simons.


https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-orleans-pelicans/cj-mccollum-13323/cash-earnings/

 

[Driew]

Unfortunately Brunson getting that crazy contract made it so we had to offer Ant the same contract. It sucks but that's the NBA for you in today's world.

 

[Ed O]

Unfortunately Brunson getting that crazy contract made it so we had to offer Ant the same contract. It sucks but that's the NBA for you in today's world.

I don't buy that. It's about leverage, not just the market. Brunson was an unrestricted free agent, meaning any team with cap space could sign him without the Mavs being able to do anything.

Simons? He was a restricted free agent, of course. If he had signed with a team, the Blazers could have matched... or he could play a year on the qualifying offer and then maybe walk next year.

So, even if things were equal between the two players in terms of production, from a process perspective, the Blazers had an ability to compromise with Simons: take a discount over the long term, or take your chances next year.

Of course, Brunson is a guy who has started 127 games over his four year career. Who's played in 25 playoff games the last two years. Who has a career 15.8 PER, including two straight years at 17.1.

Simons hasn't had anything like that in his first four years... he's two years younger, and I think his upside is still higher than Brunson's, but Brunson deserves more money than Anfernee... probably more than $4m over four years. But considering the restricted nature of his free agency, the difference between the two contracts should have been even more.

This is why I don't like this contract and I don't think that Brunson should have set the market for Simons.

 

[andalusian]

The reason the blazer had to give ant that contract is not because huse because he is a cj replacement, but because he might be a dame replacement if it comes to dame wanting out or not back to his old self after the surgery.

They could not let him walk or be unhappy going forward, simple as that.

 

[TBpup]

Further, I really think Ant might develop as a defender. He has all the athleticism and speed to do it, it's simply a matter of will, effort, and energy. I think his defense will certainly get better and there's no reason it couldn't get much better as you say he's bad at defense, the question is why, and can that change? There are no physical reasons he can't be a better defender (maybe strength?). We will see what happens and I will let it go my apologies if I misrepresented you at any point. I definitely meant some of this as the overall rhetoric in the thread and chose to respond to you precisely because I respect you and Blazerkor's opinions and I'm a bit shocked you both didn't like this or felt it was an overpay. I will definitely let it go and didn't mean to offend and apologize for any misrepresentation of your specific claims.

This part about defense is a VERY good point. He does have the speed and athleticism, and I do believe he needs to add some strength as well. I would submit, much more important is mindset and approach and hopefully Chauncey can help with that more than was evident last year. For comparison, take newly acquired defensive dog GP2. Ant is much more athletic, a bit taller, a bit more length, just a touch more wingspan, but not near the dog that GP2 has been his entire career. A player typically either was taught that and has it from early on, or they don't. A player can improve, but it is rare that a player goes from where Ant is (bottom 1%) to well above average. He should improve, but the issue is more the combination of he and Dame. You can hide one poor, small defender....GS has been doing it for years. But add a 2nd one, and it creates team wide problems.

Dame/Hart....I like. Ant/Hart.....same thing. Dame/Ant.....that is where it gets concerning, and hopefully that gets better. So perhaps I should couch it in this way. I feel the addition of Ant's $22.3 to Dame for $65M next year is an overpay. Ant on his own, isn't bad for $22.3 this year and I agree that will look better as it goes on. It's the combination that once again, like Dame/CJ isn't great for the team and has extreme limitations. And our current cap situation shows it. They felt they had to go get a specific defender to help cover for those two and now it has hamstrung the roster to where we can likely do little else. Does that make more sense?

Appreciate the clarification. Go Blazers!

 

[blazerkor]

Unfortunately Brunson getting that crazy contract made it so we had to offer Ant the same contract. It sucks but that's the NBA for you in today's world.

Brunson being overpaid is a one off. There wasn't a big free agent market so it didn't set anything really. If it did that would have been fine Ant could have got an offer sheet for 4/100 and then it would have been a smart move to have him on that huge contract right now. The way it went down it just seems like we bid against ourselves the same way we have many times over the last decade... it's never turned out well for us. I really hope it's different this time and don't begrudge Ant the financial success in the least bit. I just wish our front office were more shrewd because we're not a large market team and it doesn't seem that we have the same big spending ownership anymore, so our ability to recover from mistakes is very limited.

 

[Idog1976]

The reason the blazer had to give ant that contract is not because huse because he is a cj replacement, but because he might be a dame replacement if it comes to dame wanting out or not back to his old self after the surgery.

They could not let him walk or be unhappy going forward, simple as that.

Exactly and no one seems to care we clearly asked Ant to shut it down so we could tank in a handshake wink agreement we would pay him. That netted us arguably the best player in the draft potential wise. It also means if we lowballed or didn’t come through with a good offer we might have pissed him and/or his agent and camp off. We need chemistry and Ant is a huge part of our future going forward. Its worth the slight overpay, if indeed it was an overpay at all. I believe it will look cheap in 2 years.

 

[Freshtown]

Looking forward to more of this

 

[illmatic99]

Looking forward to more of this

while that was his breakout, i like this one better. he's cooking Jrue and not just one of the worst defenders in the league in Trae.