OT Antarctic ice loss has tripled in a decade. If that continues, we are in serious trouble

[Lanny]

My guess at the reason for the contradictory reports coming out of NASA is politics.

After Obama appointed several new high managers at NASA, there was a lot of old studies shelved, and new ones generated.

The new high managers are very anti pretty much everything. One was even on the board of directors of the Packard Foundation. The Packard foundation has been funding anti campaigns for decades. From starting the spotted owl lie, to anti fishing and hunting campaigns.

The packard foundation has been very active generating their own new interpretation of the science behind global warming.

The spotted owl thing was no lie. I have explained this numerous times.

There is a mushroom that wraps around trees in old growth forests. When the mushroom gets wet in the rainy season it soaks up the water and the tree roots have moisture even when it's dry. The mushroom has shoots or buttons that we pick when they are from edible varieties. The mushroom is eaten by a small mouse. The spores are impervious to the acid in the stomach of the mouse. The spotted owl eats the mouse. The spotted owl flies around the forest dropping it's feces here and there thereby spreading the mushroom far and wide.

It's important that we maintain every species because we don't know the full implications of eliminating any species.

 

[oldfisherman]

The spotted owl thing was no lie. I have explained this numerous times.

There is a mushroom that wraps around trees in old growth forests. When the mushroom gets wet in the rainy season it soaks up the water and the tree roots have moisture even when it's dry. The mushroom has shoots or buttons that we pick when they are from edible varieties. The mushroom is eaten by a small mouse. The spores are impervious to the acid in the stomach of the mouse. The spotted owl eats the mouse. The spotted owl flies around the forest dropping it's feces here and there thereby spreading the mushroom far and wide.

It's important that we maintain every species because we don't know the full implications of eliminating any species.

So the mouse diet is what makes the spotted owls taste soooo good. I thought it was the McDonalds hamburgers they eat.

 

[jonnyboy]

The Earth's crust rotates around its liquid core, like a ball inside a completely enclosed socket. The magnetic fields, which are the sole influence of the planet's polarity, are a product of the stationary core. The result is the North and South poles seemingly sliding around beneath out feet every few hundred thousand years. When water is melting in front of you it is simultaneously freezing behind you. Unless of course the cold spot (pole) lies predominantly on land, in which case yes, sea levels will rise (like they did 10,000 years ago). But don't worry, they will lower again when, you guessed it, the poles lie predominantly on water which will freeze. In fact, when this happens the sea levels will actually be lower than any of you or your ancestors have ever witnessed. This is all currently happening at a pace that is too slow for our impatient human brains to comprehend logically. That's why we have different studies suggesting two polar opposite (No pun intended) outcomes. Look at a spot where the pole is sliding away and you will see warming. Look at a spot where the pole is approaching and you will see cooling. And mixed in between you will see a bunch of unfamiliar weather because the magnetic field under your feet is slowly migrating.

The poles are shifting is what I'm trying to say.

I find it interesting that people who are supposedly so interested in science seem to ignore this process that is more deeply engrained in our planet's existence than humans themselves. The effect man has on the earths climate is miniscule in comparison to these cataclysms. The fact that we claim credit for them is laughable. I'm sure the effect we have on this planet is mostly negative, because we are generally an asshole species, but I just don't think we are as influential on the earth as we think we are. An annoyance at best.

 

[jonnyboy]

The spotted owl thing was no lie. I have explained this numerous times.

There is a mushroom that wraps around trees in old growth forests. When the mushroom gets wet in the rainy season it soaks up the water and the tree roots have moisture even when it's dry. The mushroom has shoots or buttons that we pick when they are from edible varieties. The mushroom is eaten by a small mouse. The spores are impervious to the acid in the stomach of the mouse. The spotted owl eats the mouse. The spotted owl flies around the forest dropping it's feces here and there thereby spreading the mushroom far and wide.

It's important that we maintain every species because we don't know the full implications of eliminating any species.

Species were going extinct daily when we were still living in caves. It is not the responsibility of man to preserve species. It is only our responsibility to conserve them at a rate that is natural. If a species demise is inexplicable then we have no right to step in. When one door closes another opens.

 

[barfo]

The Earth's crust rotates around its liquid core, like a ball inside a completely enclosed socket. The magnetic fields, which are the sole influence of the planet's polarity, are a product of the stationary core. The result is the North and South poles seemingly sliding around beneath out feet every few hundred thousand years. When water is melting in front of you it is simultaneously freezing behind you. Unless of course the cold spot (pole) lies predominantly on land, in which case yes, sea levels will rise (like they did 10,000 years ago). But don't worry, they will lower again when, you guessed it, the poles lie predominantly on water which will freeze. In fact, when this happens the sea levels will actually be lower than any of you or your ancestors have ever witnessed. This is all currently happening at a pace that is too slow for our impatient human brains to comprehend logically. That's why we have different studies suggesting two polar opposite (No pun intended) outcomes. Look at a spot where the pole is sliding away and you will see warming. Look at a spot where the pole is approaching and you will see cooling. And mixed in between you will see a bunch of unfamiliar weather because the magnetic field under your feet is slowly migrating.

The poles are shifting is what I'm trying to say.

I find it interesting that people who are supposedly so interested in science seem to ignore this process that is more deeply engrained in our planet's existence than humans themselves. The effect man has on the earths climate is miniscule in comparison to these cataclysms. The fact that we claim credit for them is laughable. I'm sure the effect we have on this planet is mostly negative, because we are generally an asshole species, but I just don't think we are as influential on the earth as we think we are. An annoyance at best.

Well... not quite. The magnetic poles shift, but the magnetic poles don't change the orientation of the planet to the sun, so they don't directly affect the temperature. If the geographic poles shifted, it would produce the effect you describe, but they don't shift (at least not very much and not very fast).

It is true that ice can be building up in one spot and melting in another, in fact that's always the case, since when it's summer here it's winter in the southern hemisphere, and vice versa.

barfo

 

[barfo]

Species were going extinct daily when we were still living in caves. It is not the responsibility of man to preserve species.

Even if it is not our responsibility, it might be in our self interest to do so.

It is only our responsibility to conserve them at a rate that is natural. If a species demise is inexplicable then we have no right to step in.

What is the natural rate? Even if we knew the natural rate, how do we use that to decide whether the Maltese Lesser Horned Toad needs to be saved? If we don't understand why something is dying, does that mean we didn't cause it? What if we come to understand it later?

When one door closes another opens.

barfo

 

[SlyPokerDog]

There is a mushroom that wraps around trees in old growth forests.

 

[Further]

Also, it takes about 7000 years for the magnetic poles to reverse. Take that very slow rate into account. Highly unlikely that these current polar changes are a result of pole reversal.

 

[oldfisherman]

Old growth trees, mushrooms and mice had nothing to do with the decline of the spotted owl population. But a very entertaining story.

The real reason, because they taste soooo good.

I have never tasted spotted owl. But the great horned owls and red tail hawks love to munch on them. Plus the many ravens eat the eggs.

So it was a natural cycle of a booming predator population causing the population of their prey to bust.

 

[jonnyboy]

Well... not quite. The magnetic poles shift, but the magnetic poles don't change the orientation of the planet to the sun, so they don't directly affect the temperature. If the geographic poles shifted, it would produce the effect you describe, but they don't shift (at least not very much and not very fast).

It is true that ice can be building up in one spot and melting in another, in fact that's always the case, since when it's summer here it's winter in the southern hemisphere, and vice versa.

barfo

Yes, the post do shift...completely. 180 degrees. South is North and North is South (magnetically speaking). They've done it hundreds of times in the history of the planet that we know of. Sometimes they don't do a complete swap they just move a little then snap back into place. This is called an Excursion, the last one happened 40,000 years ago. Not sure where you're getting your information from, but it's wrong.

 

[jonnyboy]

It is true that ice can be building up in one spot and melting in another, in fact that's always the case, since when it's summer here it's winter in the southern hemisphere, and vice versa.

barfo

Just because you talk to someone like they're an idiot, doesn't actually make them an idiot. It just makes you a person who talks down to everyone.

We all know what the seasons are, thanks barfo.

 

[barfo]

Yes, the post do shift...completely. 180 degrees. South is North and North is South (magnetically speaking). They've done it hundreds of times in the history of the planet that we know of. Sometimes they don't do a complete swap they just move a little then snap back into place. This is called an Excursion, the last one happened 40,000 years ago. Not sure where you're getting your information from, but it's wrong.

Magnetic poles and geographic poles aren't the same thing. Magnetic poles do move, but they don't affect the climate significantly. Geographic poles don't move much at all (estimated 1 degree over a million years). If they did move significantly, they would affect the climate, but they don't.

barfo

 

[barfo]

Just because you talk to someone like they're an idiot, doesn't actually make them an idiot. It just makes you a person who talks down to everyone.

We all know what the seasons are, thanks barfo.

Sorry you think I was talking down to you. I'll work on my politeness if you work on your scientific accuracy.

barfo

 

[Lanny]

Species were going extinct daily when we were still living in caves. It is not the responsibility of man to preserve species. It is only our responsibility to conserve them at a rate that is natural. If a species demise is inexplicable then we have no right to step in. When one door closes another opens.

Daily? No, that happened as man began to flourish. It accelerated during the industrial revolution and now it's accelerated even further under Mr. Potato Head.

 

[Lanny]

Old growth trees, mushrooms and mice had nothing to do with the decline of the spotted owl population. But a very entertaining story.

The real reason, because they taste soooo good.

I have never tasted spotted owl. But the great horned owls and red tail hawks love to munch on them. Plus the many ravens eat the eggs.

So it was a natural cycle of a booming predator population causing the population of their prey to bust.

And?

My point is why should we accelerate it when maybe we can reverse it?

 

[oldfisherman]

And?

My point is why should we accelerate it when maybe we can reverse it?

Are you serious? I honestly thought you were joking. I liked the post because it was so full of false info it was entertaining.

I'll break it down for you. But will start from the end of your story.

1) You imply the spotted owls (SO) only eat mice. False
The SO do eat mice, but their favorite food is squirrel.

2) You imply there is a shortage of mice in the woods. False
There are also plenty of squirrels.

3) You imply the false mice shortage is due to a shortage of water. False
The pacific NW has plenty of water in the forests even during a very dry season. I have never heard of any wild critters dying of thirst here.

4) You imply the mice only get water by eating some un-named mushroom that only grows on old growth trees. False
Mice do get much of the water they need from what they eat. But they like high carb foods such as seeds. Mushrooms are a low carb food source.. Mice will eat almost anything. Starving mice are known to eat each other to survive.

 

[riverman]

The pacific NW has plenty of water in the forests even during a very dry season. I have never heard of any wild critters dying of thirst here.

well...forest fires happen and wildlife dies even in the NW...fire kind of dries up water in some areas.

 

[oldfisherman]

well...forest fires happen and wildlife dies even in the NW...fire kind of dries up water in some areas.

A valid point.
But...
Mice can dig to find water and escape fires. Fires only reduce the amount of water above the surface.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Didn't scientists predict in the 1960s that Florida would be under water by the 1980s?

Ice, either hurry up and melt, or shut the fuck up already.







.....oh, wait, I'm sorry...this is clearly Trump's fault. Not China, India, or Russia's fault. Just Trump.

 

[MarAzul]

Ooh! Once is enough!

Nothing is this good. It could be that bad.

 

[Lanny]

Are you serious? I honestly thought you were joking. I liked the post because it was so full of false info it was entertaining.

I'll break it down for you. But will start from the end of your story.

1) You imply the spotted owls (SO) only eat mice. False
The SO do eat mice, but their favorite food is squirrel.

2) You imply there is a shortage of mice in the woods. False
There are also plenty of squirrels.

3) You imply the false mice shortage is due to a shortage of water. False
The pacific NW has plenty of water in the forests even during a very dry season. I have never heard of any wild critters dying of thirst here.

4) You imply the mice only get water by eating some un-named mushroom that only grows on old growth trees. False
Mice do get much of the water they need from what they eat. But they like high carb foods such as seeds. Mushrooms are a low carb food source.. Mice will eat almost anything. Starving mice are known to eat each other to survive.

1. I never said they only eat mice, I never even meant it. But that's irrelevant to the result. They eat mice and when they do they spread mushroom spores. Is that difficult to comprehend?
2. I also never intended anyone to mistake that there is a shortage of mice. I meant to discuss the spotted owl and it's diet;
3. What shortage of water and how does a mouse eating a mushroom have anything to do a lack of water that unless the association is conjured up? I meant to make it clear that it was the trees that needed the water even in times of drought or a shortage of rainfall during a season;
4. Saying you are laughing is a serious denigration of a poster. Don't do that if you want to continue a discussion.

Edit: The spotted owl lives in old growth forests. The point was that for the continued health of old growth forests we should think more about the valuable contribution of the spotted owl.

 

[Lanny]

Didn't scientists predict in the 1960s that Florida would be under water by the 1980s?

Ice, either hurry up and melt, or shut the fuck up already.







.....oh, wait, I'm sorry...this is clearly Trump's fault. Not China, India, or Russia's fault. Just Trump.

I don't remember seeing that Florida would be under water by the 1980s but I can tell you that Miami has a serious problem with tidal flooding. I can also tell you that sea levels are rising. I believe I've seen where most sea levels have risen about 4 to 6 inches. Why would that be?

 

[Lanny]

Are you serious? I honestly thought you were joking. I liked the post because it was so full of false info it was entertaining.

I'll break it down for you. But will start from the end of your story.

1) You imply the spotted owls (SO) only eat mice. False
The SO do eat mice, but their favorite food is squirrel.

2) You imply there is a shortage of mice in the woods. False
There are also plenty of squirrels.

3) You imply the false mice shortage is due to a shortage of water. False
The pacific NW has plenty of water in the forests even during a very dry season. I have never heard of any wild critters dying of thirst here.

4) You imply the mice only get water by eating some un-named mushroom that only grows on old growth trees. False
Mice do get much of the water they need from what they eat. But they like high carb foods such as seeds. Mushrooms are a low carb food source.. Mice will eat almost anything. Starving mice are known to eat each other to survive.

Magnetic poles and geographic poles aren't the same thing. Magnetic poles do move, but they don't affect the climate significantly. Geographic poles don't move much at all (estimated 1 degree over a million years). If they did move significantly, they would affect the climate, but they don't.

barfo

Magnetic poles do affect the Earth's climate significantly. Mars lost it's magnetic poles and solar winds then wiped away most of the atmosphere. The poles are vital to our climate.

In the short run, I'd have to agree with you.

 

[oldfisherman]

1. I never said they only eat mice, I never even meant it. But that's irrelevant to the result. They eat mice and when they do they spread mushroom spores. Is that difficult to comprehend?
2. I also never intended anyone to mistake that there is a shortage of mice. I meant to discuss the spotted owl and it's diet;
3. What shortage of water and how does a mouse eating a mushroom have anything to do a lack of water that unless the association is conjured up? I meant to make it clear that it was the trees that needed the water even in times of drought or a shortage of rainfall during a season;
4. Saying you are laughing is a serious denigration of a poster. Don't do that if you want to continue a discussion.

Edit: The spotted owl lives in old growth forests. The point was that for the continued health of old growth forests we should think more about the valuable contribution of the spotted owl.

And..
Why don't you tell us what valuable contribution the spotted owl makes.

The spotted owl lives in the nests of other birds. It is too lazy to make it's own nest. It also lives in rock craveses and holes in large trees.

The SO does not defend its nest, it is too lazy. Their young and un-hatched eggs are easy pickings for predators.

I fully support improving and balancing the ecosystem of our public lands. However there is way too much misleading information being generated. I believe the info in your post was very misleading.

 

[riverman]

Ooh! Once is enough!

Nothing is this good. It could be that bad.

The mycologist master that taught the Mt Pisgah classes for years died from slicing his hand cutting a poisonous mushroom...my wife went to that camp years ago..it only takes one mistake...I stick to 4 or 5 varieties I know I can trust

 

[riverman]

And..
Why don't you tell us what valuable contribution the spotted owl makes.

The spotted owl lives in the nests of other birds. It is too lazy to make it's own nest. It also lives in rock craveses and holes of large tress.

The SO does not defend its nest, it is too lazy. Their young and un-hatched eggs are easy pickings for predators.

I fully support improving and balancing the ecosystem of our public lands. However there is way too much misleading information being generated. I believe the info in your post was very misleading.

I always wondered who was hunting spotted owls!

 

[oldfisherman]

I always wondered who was hunting spotted owls!

Not much hunting needed.
The spotted owl likes to live in the nest of predator birds. Some of them are the very predators that like to munch on the SO, their young and eggs.

I'm amazed we still have any SOs.

 

[jonnyboy]

Daily? No, that happened as man began to flourish. It accelerated during the industrial revolution and now it's accelerated even further under Mr. Potato Head.

Oh Trump is exterminating entire species now? Lol. Your hysteria alone is enough to discredit the things you say.

 

[jonnyboy]

Magnetic poles and geographic poles aren't the same thing. Magnetic poles do move, but they don't affect the climate significantly. Geographic poles don't move much at all (estimated 1 degree over a million years). If they did move significantly, they would affect the climate, but they don't.

barfo

Geographic poles don't mean shit, why did you even bring them up? Irrelevant information you are using to split hairs. Magnetic poles move significantly AND affect the climate...SIGNIFICANTLY. It's a fact. No point trying to slide out of the stranglehold science has on your political agenda by using semantics.

 

[MarAzul]

I know I can trust

I don't trust any of them!
Well, it is my knowledge of them, where I lack trust.