Anyone know why Muslims hate being photographed?

[SlyPokerDog]

Not to me. Pigs don't eat other pigs. How do pigs get to taste like bacon?

<Insert Portland Police & Voodoo donut bacon maple bars joke here>

 

[3RA1N1AC]

supposedly human flesh resembles pork in flavor

the other white meat

 

[MarAzul]

Well, what do you know?

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/03/poll-muslims-atheists-most-likely-to-reject-violence/

Wow! That was a stupid poll, as are the charts. The facts are, it is Muslims that strap on explosives and become bombs to maim other people. It was Muslims that drove the planes on 9/11. It seems like all Pirate around the world are Muslim civilians. All the fighters of all Muslim Terrorist groups (there are no other kind) are civilians called to service as soldiers of Islam by an Islamic leader. They are not the military of any Nation so they are all civilians.

If there are 1.5 billion of the Muslims that don't approve of this action, it is a meaningless statistic except they do themselves no good by permitting it to continue. They will likely reap the same reward as the guilty they harbor when the American public opinion says we will no longer permit this senseless aggression.

 

[Denny Crane]

Wow! That was a stupid poll, as are the charts. The facts are, it is Muslims that strap on explosives and become bombs to maim other people. It was Muslims that drove the planes on 9/11. It seems like all Pirate around the world are Muslim civilians. All the fighters of all Muslim Terrorist groups (there are no other kind) are civilians called to service as soldiers of Islam by an Islamic leader. They are not the military of any Nation so they are all civilians.

If there are 1.5 billion of the Muslims that don't approve of this action, it is a meaningless statistic except they do themselves no good by permitting it to continue. They will likely reap the same reward as the guilty they harbor when the American public opinion says we will no longer permit this senseless aggression.

You're right. Those 19 muslims who blew up WTC and the Pentagon accepted donations to fund their cause, and all 1.7B Muslims contributed.

NOT.

The polling data shows the Muslims are less likely to condone terrorist acts than the other religions, so their preaching is falling on deaf ears.

Your hero: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Jones_(pastor)

 

[MarAzul]

You're right. Those 19 muslims who blew up WTC and the Pentagon accepted donations to fund their cause, and all 1.7B Muslims contributed.

NOT.

>>> The contribution were sufficient to get the job do and none lifted a hand to stop it.

The polling data shows the Muslims are less likely to condone terrorist ...

Your hero: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Jones_(pastor)

Wonder what the poll would look like if amended to read "Muslims are less likely to condone or harbor terrorist...

Then we have the culture of Piracy, still rampant through out the Muslim world. Heck, Jefferson ordered the first six Navy frigates to combat piracy, The Barbary Pirates, they were Muslims you know.

Well I do hope those "good Muslims" wake up and put a stop to this evil they harbor. It would be best if they do it rather than wait for the
game to escalate.

 

[Denny Crane]

I think there may have been more abortion clinic bombings, arson, and other threats to staff by religious terrorists here in the USA than there have been Al Qaeda terrorist attacks world wide.

 

[MarAzul]

I think there may have been more abortion clinic bombings, arson, and other threats to staff by religious terrorists here in the USA than there have been Al Qaeda terrorist attacks world wide.

I suspect that statement may reflect a prime example of your ability to think and reach creditable conclusions.


Hey Sly! If I call Denny a "Dumb Fuck", do I get banned for personal attacks or does he for being outed?

 

[MarAzul]

Wonder what the poll would look like if amended to read "Muslims are less likely to condone or harbor terrorist...

Then we have the culture of Piracy, still rampant through out the Muslim world. Heck, Jefferson ordered the first six Navy frigates to combat piracy, The Barbary Pirates, they were Muslims you know.

Well I do hope those "good Muslims" wake up and put a stop to this evil they harbor. It would be best if they do it rather than wait for the
game to escalate.

Oh! and Slavery! Another little overlooked nasty little habit of the Muslims. Everyone else put this away Centuries ago.
http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/7007?eng=y

 

[3RA1N1AC]

heavy bro

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Who will be more American, the Muslims watching the Super Bowl or the people arguing about how evil Muslims are in this thread during the Super Bowl?

 

[Sedatedfork]

Who will be more American, the Muslims watching the Super Bowl or the people arguing about how evil Muslims are in this thread during the Super Bowl?

Which are fatter?

 

[riverman]

Does anyone know if Muslims taste like chicken? We could kill all of them, cook them and then feed them to starving Christian Africans. Then people who are afraid of Muslims could feel good about killing them.

You going to start with Sheed or Muhamed Ali first? I know you're being sarcastic but the gross generalizations being tossed around here about Muslim culture are just over the top...Have yet to see any Muslim culture nuke two cities like the Christians have or kill off anyone they want like the Spanish Inquisition or Nazi's or Mao's red guard. Fact is, anyone can be a terrorist from anywhere on the planet. We did a pretty good job here in the states with the slave and the indigenous population. Christians in the Balkans killed a lot of Muslim Serbs, (but they looked like Christians)

 

[MarAzul]

Who will be more American, the Muslims watching the Super Bowl or the people arguing about how evil Muslims are in this thread during the Super Bowl?

You side step that one deftly. The Super Bowl ain't on yet. But I guess O'Riley interviewing Obama is. Later

 

[SlyPokerDog]

You side step that one deftly. The Super Bowl ain't on yet. But I guess O'Riley interviewing Obama is. Later

Hahahaha! That was some mighty good side steppin' yourself, my friend.

 

[Denny Crane]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_God_(USA)

Army of God (AOG) is a Christian terrorist anti-abortion organization that sanctions the use of force to combat abortion in the United States.[1] HBO produced a documentary on the Army of God entitled Soldiers in the Army of God.[2]

The earliest documented incidence of the Army of God being involved with anti-abortion activity occurred in 1982. Three men associated with the organization held Hector Zevallos, an abortion doctor, and his wife, Rosalee Jean, hostage. The hostages were later released unharmed. [3] The "East Coast division" of the AOG claimed responsibility when three men, including Michael Bray, planted bombs at seven abortion clinics in Maryland, Virginia, and Washington D.C. in 1985.[4]

The AOG claimed responsibility for Eric Robert Rudolph's 1997 nail bombing of abortion clinics in Atlanta and Birmingham as well as an Atlanta lesbian bar.[5]

Clayton Waagner, claiming to act on the part of the "Virginia Dare Chapter" of the AOG, mailed over 500 letters containing white powder to 280 abortion providers in 2001. The letters claimed that the powder was anthrax; though it was not identified as such, the tactic took advantage of the public's fear of biological warfare after the recent real anthrax attacks.[6][7]

The group is also associated with a number of murders of abortion providers. Some of these murders claimed association with the AOG; in other cases, while the killer expressed no affiliation with the group, the AOG has lionized their acts and taken up their cause.

We the undersigned, declare the justice of taking all Godly action necessary, including the use of force, to defend innocent human life (born and unborn). We proclaim that whatever force is legitimate to defend the life of a born child is legitimate to defend the life of an unborn child.


We declare and affirm that if in fact Paul Hill did kill or wound abortionist John Britton, and accomplices James Barrett and Mrs. Barrett, his actions are morally justified if they were necessary for the purpose of defending innocent human life. Under these conditions, Paul Hill should be acquitted of all charges against him.

Religion of Denial and ignorance.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Wow! That was a stupid poll, as are the charts. The facts are, it is Muslims that strap on explosives and become bombs to maim other people. It was Muslims that drove the planes on 9/11. It seems like all Pirate around the world are Muslim civilians. All the fighters of all Muslim Terrorist groups (there are no other kind) are civilians called to service as soldiers of Islam by an Islamic leader. They are not the military of any Nation so they are all civilians.

You're really reaching. Pirates? You're thinking of a handful of Somalis. Yes they are Muslims. So what?

And there are really NO non-Muslim terrorist groups? You want to rethink that one?

If there are 1.5 billion of the Muslims that don't approve of this action, it is a meaningless statistic except they do themselves no good by permitting it to continue. They will likely reap the same reward as the guilty they harbor when the American public opinion says we will no longer permit this senseless aggression.

I'd like to hear what you think common place Muslims could do to stamp out extremism.

 

[Denny Crane]

Christian Terrorists. Nuke em, too.

After all, fair is fair!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

United States[edit]

Murders[edit]

In the U.S., violence directed towards abortion providers has killed at least eight people, including four doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic escort.[8][9]

March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.

July 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside another facility, the Ladies Center, in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings. Hill received a death sentence and was executed on September 3, 2003. The clinic in Pensacola had been bombed before in 1984 and was also bombed subsequently in 2012.

December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.

January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.

October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death with a high-powered rifle at his home in Amherst, New York.[10] His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Slepian's murder after being apprehended in France in 2001.

May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed by Scott Roeder as Tiller served as an usher at a church in Wichita, Kansas.[11]

Attempted murder, assault, and kidnapping

According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers.[12] Attempted murders in the U.S. included:[8][13][14]

August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence (20 years were later added for arson and acid attacks on clinics).

July 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.

December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.

October 28, 1997: Dr. David Gandell of Rochester, New York was injured by flying glass when a shot was fired through the window of his home.[15]

January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured, and lost an eye, in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson.

Arson, bombing, and property crime

According to NAF, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, property crimes committed against abortion providers have included 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid ("stink bombs").[12] The New York Times also cites over one hundred clinic bombings and incidents of arson, over three hundred invasions, and over four hundred incidents of vandalism between 1978 and 1993.[16] The first clinic arson occurred in Oregon in March 1976 and the first bombing occurred in February 1978 in Ohio.[17] Incidents have included:
December 25, 1984: An abortion clinic and two physicians' offices in Pensacola, Florida, were bombed in the early morning of Christmas Day by a quartet of young people (Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins) who later called the bombings "a gift to Jesus on his birthday."[18][19][20] The clinic, the Ladies Center, would later be the site of the murder of Dr. John Britton and James Barrett in 1994 and a firebombing in 2012.

March 29, 1993: Blue Mountain Clinic in Missoula, Montana; at around 1 a.m., an arsonist snuck onto the premises and firebombed the clinic. The perpetrator, a Washington man, was ultimately caught, convicted and imprisoned. The facility was a near-total loss, but all of the patients' records, though damaged, survived the fire in metal file cabinets.[21][22][23]

May 21, 1998: Three people were injured when acid was poured at the entrances of five abortion clinics in Miami, Florida.[24]
October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.[25]

May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire, resulted in several thousand dollars' worth of damage. The case remains unsolved.[26][27][28] This was the second arson at the clinic.[29]

September 30, 2000: John Earl, a Catholic priest, drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being forced to the ground by the owner of the building, who fired two warning shots from a shotgun.[30]

June 11, 2001: An unsolved bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington, destroyed a wall, resulting in $6,000 in damages.[25][31]

July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida, was the target of an arson. The case remains open.[25]
December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year. Hughes claimed the bomb was a "memorial lamp" for an abortion she had had there.[32]

September 11, 2006 David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan, crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing abortions; however, Edgerton is not an abortion clinic.[33] Time magazine listed the incident in a "Top 10 Inept Terrorist Plots" list.[34]

April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas, contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device after evacuating the building. Paul Ross Evans (who had a criminal record for armed robbery and theft) was found guilty of the crime.[35]

May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.[36]

December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Dr. Curtis Boyd's clinic in Albuquerque. Baca's girlfriend had scheduled an appointment for an abortion at the clinic.[37][38]

January 22, 2009 Matthew L. Derosia, 32, who was reported to have had a history of mental illness[39] rammed an SUV into the front entrance of a Planned Parenthood clinic in St. Paul, Minnesota.[40]

January 1, 2012 Bobby Joe Rogers, 41, firebombed the American Family Planning Clinic in Pensacola, Florida, with a Molotov cocktail; the fire gutted the building. Rogers told investigators that he was motivated to commit the crime by his opposition to abortion, and that what more directly prompted the act was seeing a patient enter the clinic during one of the frequent anti-abortion protests there. The clinic had previously been bombed at Christmas in 1984 and was the site of the murder of Dr. John Britton and James Barrett in 1994.[41]

April 1, 2012 A bomb exploded on the windowsill of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Grand Chute, Wisconsin, resulting in a fire that damaged one of the clinic's examination rooms. No injuries were reported.

April 11, 2013 A Planned Parenthood clinic in Bloomington, Indiana, was vandalized with an axe.[42]

Anthrax threats

The first hoax letters claiming to contain anthrax were mailed to U.S. clinics in October 1998, a few days after the Slepian shooting; since then, there have been 655 such bioterror threats made against abortion providers. None of the "anthrax" in these cases was real.[13][43]

November 2001: After the genuine 2001 anthrax attacks, Clayton Waagner mailed hoax letters containing a white powder to 554 clinics. On December 3, 2003, Waagner was convicted of 51 charges relating to the anthrax scare.

 

[Denny Crane]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_terrorism_in_the_United_States

Army of God[edit]

Main article: Army of God (USA)

The Army of God (AOG)[5] is a loose network of individuals and groups connected by ideological affinity and the determination to use force to end abortion in the United States. Acts of anti-abortion violence increased in the mid-1990s culminating in a series of bombings by Eric Robert Rudolph, whose targets included two abortion clinics, a gay and lesbian night club, and the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta. Letters sent to newspapers claim responsibility for the bombing of the abortion clinics in the name of the Army of God.

Aryan Nations[edit]

Main article: Aryan Nations

Aryan Nations (AN) is a white nationalist neo-Nazi organization founded in the 1970s by Richard Girnt Butler as an arm of the Christian Identity group known as the Church of Jesus Christ-Christian. As of December 2007 there were two main factions that claimed descent from Butler's group. The Aryan Nations has been called a "terrorist threat" by the FBI,[6] and the RAND Corporation has called it the "first truly nationwide terrorist network" in the USA.[7]

Phineas Priesthood[edit]

Main article: Phineas Priesthood

The Phineas Priesthood (Phineas Priests) is a Christian Identity movement that opposes interracial intercourse, the mixing of races, homosexuality, and abortion. It is also marked by its anti-Semitism, anti-multiculturalism, and opposition to taxation. It is not considered an organization because it is not led by a governing body, there are no gatherings, and there is no membership process. One becomes a Phineas Priest by simply adopting the beliefs of the Priesthood and acting upon those beliefs. Members of the Priesthood are often called terrorists for, among other things, planning to blow up FBI buildings, abortion clinic bombings, and bank robberies.[citation needed]

 

[oldguy]

When should we launch the nukes?

Good Lord. That is some pathetic shit. You troll me harder than BlazerFanatic ever did...and you banned her. I know you own the place, but maybe for the good of the site, you could hang on the Bulls forum.

I haven't said anything derogatory about Muslims. I'm quoting numbers from someone you seem to think is an expert on the subject.

For reasons completely lost on me, you seem determined to vastly understate the number of radical Muslims. I'm arguing about the NUMBER Denny, try to follow the bouncing ball, will you? I'm not arguing about whether terrorism is justified. I'm not arguing that all Muslims are bad people. I'm not arguing about how Americans feel about targeting civilians. I'm not arguing over how Americans feel about illegal aliens in this country. And I'm not arguing that the US should nuke anyone. I'm arguing about the ridiculously low number you keep trying sell us.

The guy you quoted as an expert on this subject was outed in that WikiIslam link for admitting that the number of Muslim radicals he provided in his book was understated. If we look at the number the author ADMITS is understated, it equates to 1.7B X .07 = 119,000,000 radicals. Your expert, with his understated number, says there are about 600 TIMES AS MANY RADICALS AS THE NONSENSICAL NUMBER YOU'RE CLINGING TO. If we use the number that WikiIslam believes is more closely representative of the number of radicals, 36%, we get .36 X 1.7B = Over 600,000,000. That is more than 3,000 times your estimate of 200K.

So, do you still stand behind your estimate of 200K? If so, why don't you simply explain why that is, instead of trying to change the subject so you don't have to address the issue we disagree on?

Go Blazers

 

[oldguy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_terrorism_in_the_United_States

Army of God[edit]

Main article: Army of God (USA)

The Army of God (AOG)[5] is a loose network of individuals and groups connected by ideological affinity and the determination to use force to end abortion in the United States. Acts of anti-abortion violence increased in the mid-1990s culminating in a series of bombings by Eric Robert Rudolph, whose targets included two abortion clinics, a gay and lesbian night club, and the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta. Letters sent to newspapers claim responsibility for the bombing of the abortion clinics in the name of the Army of God.

Aryan Nations[edit]

Main article: Aryan Nations

Aryan Nations (AN) is a white nationalist neo-Nazi organization founded in the 1970s by Richard Girnt Butler as an arm of the Christian Identity group known as the Church of Jesus Christ-Christian. As of December 2007 there were two main factions that claimed descent from Butler's group. The Aryan Nations has been called a "terrorist threat" by the FBI,[6] and the RAND Corporation has called it the "first truly nationwide terrorist network" in the USA.[7]

Phineas Priesthood[edit]

Main article: Phineas Priesthood

The Phineas Priesthood (Phineas Priests) is a Christian Identity movement that opposes interracial intercourse, the mixing of races, homosexuality, and abortion. It is also marked by its anti-Semitism, anti-multiculturalism, and opposition to taxation. It is not considered an organization because it is not led by a governing body, there are no gatherings, and there is no membership process. One becomes a Phineas Priest by simply adopting the beliefs of the Priesthood and acting upon those beliefs. Members of the Priesthood are often called terrorists for, among other things, planning to blow up FBI buildings, abortion clinic bombings, and bank robberies.[citation needed]

I'm not sure what your point is. How many women and children were killed by those groups? Do they routinely kill women and children as a tactic to further their political and/or religious agenda?

Go Blazers

 

[riverman]

Why on earth are you folks arguing about numbers? Is anyone on this site not an accountant? Terrorism is horrible, throughout history people have done horrible things in the name of whatever grand wazoo had the shoes, rice and blankets and we don't keep count. The thread really just asks why they.(this is the problem word) don't like being photographed.

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm not sure what your point is. How many women and children were killed by those groups? Do they routinely kill women and children as a tactic to further their political and/or religious agenda?

Go Blazers

Yes, they do.

 

[Denny Crane]

Good Lord. That is some pathetic shit. You troll me harder than BlazerFanatic ever did...and you banned her. I know you own the place, but maybe for the good of the site, you could hang on the Bulls forum.

I haven't said anything derogatory about Muslims. I'm quoting numbers from someone you seem to think is an expert on the subject.

For reasons completely lost on me, you seem determined to vastly understate the number of radical Muslims. I'm arguing about the NUMBER Denny, try to follow the bouncing ball, will you? I'm not arguing about whether terrorism is justified. I'm not arguing that all Muslims are bad people. I'm not arguing about how Americans feel about targeting civilians. I'm not arguing over how Americans feel about illegal aliens in this country. And I'm not arguing that the US should nuke anyone. I'm arguing about the ridiculously low number you keep trying sell us.

The guy you quoted as an expert on this subject was outed in that WikiIslam link for admitting that the number of Muslim radicals he provided in his book was understated. If we look at the number the author ADMITS is understated, it equates to 1.7B X .07 = 119,000,000 radicals. Your expert, with his understated number, says there are about 600 TIMES AS MANY RADICALS AS THE NONSENSICAL NUMBER YOU'RE CLINGING TO. If we use the number that WikiIslam believes is more closely representative of the number of radicals, 36%, we get .36 X 1.7B = Over 600,000,000. That is more than 3,000 times your estimate of 200K.

So, do you still stand behind your estimate of 200K? If so, why don't you simply explain why that is, instead of trying to change the subject so you don't have to address the issue we disagree on?

Go Blazers

Read it and explain to me how Muslims are somehow more radical or more supportive of terrorism than other people.

You cherry pick bullshit stats and ignore the ones that destroy your thesis.

 

[Denny Crane]

The answer is near 0% of any of the groups in the graph are radicalized enough to take up arms.

I stand behind my estimate of 200K. If there were 20% of Palestinians, alone, that were somehow radicalized, there'd have been a million suicide bombers hitting Israel.

But... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks

Looks like roughly 200, and 804 total killed.

The math looks like 200/5M. A very very small number. .004% to be exact.

Maybe 200,000 is even too high.

 

[oldguy]

Read it and explain to me how Muslims are somehow more radical or more supportive of terrorism than other people.

You cherry pick bullshit stats and ignore the ones that destroy your thesis.

First, that doesn't have one single thing to do with what we've been arguing about.

Second, that poll doesn't mean shit. My guess is that someone simpathetic to the Muslim cause wrote those questions.

Osama Bin Ladin was a civilian that killed 3000 American civilians. Why the hell wouldn't a large number of Americans say it's ok to kill that fuck? Same for the second question, only it asks if it's ok for a Seal team to go kill OBL. What the hell point do you think that poll makes?

Additionally, a sign of the times is that our civilian enemies commonly cross national borders, so they can take sanctuary in a country we don't lightly to go into. The way Bush, and now Obama, have dealt with that tactic is to use drones and hellfire missiles to send our enemies to meet their maker. Again, why wouldn't Americans say it's ok to kill civilians that have killed lots of their fellow citizens, and will undoubtedly kill many more?

How about if the pollsters ask a question that would actually demonstrate the difference between how Muslims and Americans feel about the issue? How about a question that asks:

"Do you believe it is a legitimate tactic to purposely kill women and children to further political and/or religious agendas?"

What stats did I cherry pick? You disputed the WikiIslam stats (or my interpretation of them), so I went to John Esposito's stats, since you quoted him first. Your expert says it is understated to say that only 7% of Muslims are radical. That's 100M. Is 7% not what Esposito said in his book? Is my math wrong? Where is the cherry picking?

If anything, it's you doing the cherry picking. The first time I quoted your expert, I didn't even run the numbers out, because they are shockingly high. So, I said it was a lot. Then, when you kept trolling me, I ran the numbers out to make my point. I would like to think those numbers are way to high, but they are the numbers your guy has in his book. Are you saying Esposito's 7% figure can't be trusted? I've tried to find numbers from someone we could agree on, even if your guy has a pro-Muslim bias. Seems like you are the one doing the cherry picking.


Go Blazers

 

[riverman]

First, that doesn't have one single thing to do with what we've been arguing about.

Second, that poll doesn't mean shit. My guess is that someone simpathetic to the Muslim cause wrote those questions.

Osama Bin Ladin was a civilian that killed 3000 American civilians. Why the hell wouldn't a large number of Americans say it's ok to kill that fuck? Same for the second question, only it asks if it's ok for a Seal team to go kill OBL. What the hell point do you think that poll makes?

Additionally, a sign of the times is that our civilian enemies commonly cross national borders, so they can take sanctuary in a country we don't lightly to go into. The way Bush, and now Obama, have dealt with that tactic is to use drones and hellfire missiles to send our enemies to meet their maker. Again, why wouldn't Americans say it's ok to kill civilians that have killed lots of their fellow citizens, and will undoubtedly kill many more?

How about if the pollsters ask a question that would actually demonstrate the difference between how Muslims and Americans feel about the issue? How about a question that asks:

"Do you believe it is a legitimate tactic to purposely kill women and children to further political and/or religious agendas?"

What stats did I cherry pick? You disputed the WikiIslam stats (or my interpretation of them), so I went to John Esposito's stats, since you quoted him first. Your expert says it is understated to say that only 7% of Muslims are radical. That's 100M. Is 7% not what Esposito said in his book? Is my math wrong? Where is the cherry picking?

If anything, it's you doing the cherry picking. The first time I quoted your expert, I didn't even run the numbers out, because they are shockingly high. So, I said it was a lot. Then, when you kept trolling me, I ran the numbers out to make my point. I would like to think those numbers are way to high, but they are the numbers your guy has in his book. Are you saying Esposito's 7% figure can't be trusted? I've tried to find numbers from someone we could agree on, even if your guy has a pro-Muslim bias. Seems like you are the one doing the cherry picking.


Go Blazers

You ask the difference in opinions of Muslims and Americans? There are Muslim Americans you know

 

[MarAzul]

You ask the difference in opinions of Muslims and Americans? There are Muslim Americans you know

Yeah, fort Hood was the work of one as I recall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting

 

[oldguy]

You ask the difference in opinions of Muslims and Americans? There are Muslim Americans you know

Yes. I work with two Muslims. Both pretty good guys.

Given that they are less than 1% of the population, it didn't seem too relevent.

Go Blazers

 

[barfo]

Yes. I work with two Mulims. Both pretty good guys.

I guess you probably haven't taken a picture of them, then. I hear they hate that.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

First, that doesn't have one single thing to do with what we've been arguing about.

Second, that poll doesn't mean shit. My guess is that someone simpathetic to the Muslim cause wrote those questions.

Osama Bin Ladin was a civilian that killed 3000 American civilians. Why the hell wouldn't a large number of Americans say it's ok to kill that fuck? Same for the second question, only it asks if it's ok for a Seal team to go kill OBL. What the hell point do you think that poll makes?

Additionally, a sign of the times is that our civilian enemies commonly cross national borders, so they can take sanctuary in a country we don't lightly to go into. The way Bush, and now Obama, have dealt with that tactic is to use drones and hellfire missiles to send our enemies to meet their maker. Again, why wouldn't Americans say it's ok to kill civilians that have killed lots of their fellow citizens, and will undoubtedly kill many more?

How about if the pollsters ask a question that would actually demonstrate the difference between how Muslims and Americans feel about the issue? How about a question that asks:

"Do you believe it is a legitimate tactic to purposely kill women and children to further political and/or religious agendas?"

What stats did I cherry pick? You disputed the WikiIslam stats (or my interpretation of them), so I went to John Esposito's stats, since you quoted him first. Your expert says it is understated to say that only 7% of Muslims are radical. That's 100M. Is 7% not what Esposito said in his book? Is my math wrong? Where is the cherry picking?

If anything, it's you doing the cherry picking. The first time I quoted your expert, I didn't even run the numbers out, because they are shockingly high. So, I said it was a lot. Then, when you kept trolling me, I ran the numbers out to make my point. I would like to think those numbers are way to high, but they are the numbers your guy has in his book. Are you saying Esposito's 7% figure can't be trusted? I've tried to find numbers from someone we could agree on, even if your guy has a pro-Muslim bias. Seems like you are the one doing the cherry picking.


Go Blazers

Gallup Poll, dude. Nobody "sympathetic to muslims" for whatever reason. It shows that it isn't a Muslim thing to "support" terrorism (in your world view of things). In fact, they support it less than other people.

And yeah, it has everything to do with what's been going on in this thread. The question is about Muslims and photographs, but it really is about understanding Muslims and their culture. Some people make it out to be that there's some vast number of terrorists out there posing an enormous threat. When that claim is examined with any kind of reasoned scrutiny, it turns out to be outright false.

You can count the actual terrorists and armies of "terrorist" groups. In my 200K estimate, I looked at reports by foreign policy think tanks about a number of the "scary" terrorist organizations and found them to number in the hundreds or low thousands. I looked at the sizes of military wings of well established and state funded (Iran supported) organizations. I looked at the size of organized and unorganized groups fighting in Arab Spring revolts. 200K may be too high, as I said.

There's no way there are 100M radical Muslims. Even a fraction (10%) of that many would constitute an army twice the size of the US force in all of World War II. I don't see anything even close to WWII going on, do you? Seriously.

Esposito works for or with Gallup. He's written at least three books about the perceived threat from Islam and none of them say what you claim he or the gallup questions do. The 7% figure you come up with is indeed in his book, but only a little bit of further examination shows:

According to the Gallup Poll, 7% of respondents think that the 9/11 attacks were “completely” justified and view the United States unfavorably…. the 7%, whom we’ll call “the politically radicalized” because of their radical political orientation… are a potential source for recruitment or support for terrorist groups.

In practice, nowhere near that number supports terrorist groups.

The numbers aren't "shockingly high," they are shockingly low for all the brouhaha that is made and fear mongering intended.

The cherry picking is ignoring the data about Protestants' views and Catholics' views, etc., when asked the same questions. Those answers sure make Muslims look the most "peaceful" among those religions.

Have a look at this, too:

http://kurzman.unc.edu/islamic-statements-against-terrorism/