Are the Blazers better with Brogdon instead of Dame?

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Blazers are better with Brogdon instead of Dame?

  • Total voters
    43
  • Poll closed .
Predator said:
I mean, they were 26-64 in that span without him. He essentially single handedly was the difference between a .288 record and a .500 record. If anything I think you should question the players around him more than anything.
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They were even worse when they held out the starters and were trying to tank? Not exactly surprising.

But you can't question the players around Dame now.....and they have completely flipped in a big negative in terms of defense. Meanwhile, Portland has completely flipped for the positive on defense. (and brutal on offense)

I agree that it was time. But the dramatic shifts for both teams in some areas can't be ignored.
 
Tince said:
Your last point is a very different discussion in regards to roster building and roster management.

When Brogdon leads us to the WCF with a marginal roster, I'll consider the idea that we're a better team with him vs Dame.
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Again, it's not a Dame vs Brogdon thing. The question was about the team. And that was a number of years ago Dame 'led' the team to beating a dysfunctional OKC team and a baby Nuggets team only to get swept by the Warriors.
 
THE HCP said:
Give Dame the exact same talent and roster and we are better with him. And I LOVE Brogdon……but c’mon man.
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But you can’t do that. Dame was the price to get Ayton, Williams and Brogdon.
 
If Dame had Ayton
TBpup said:
They were even worse when they held out the starters and were trying to tank? Not exactly surprising.

But you can't question the players around Dame now.....and they have completely flipped in a big negative in terms of defense. Meanwhile, Portland has completely flipped for the positive on defense. (and brutal on offense)

I agree that it was time. But the dramatic shifts for both teams in some areas can't be ignored.
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We will come down to earth on the d once we start playing high caliber teams. Plus seems to me Chaunceys teams as the season gets going the d drops off. Thats strictly my observation.....
 
TBpup said:
Again, it's not a Dame vs Brogdon thing. The question was about the team. And that was a number of years ago Dame 'led' the team to beating a dysfunctional OKC team and a baby Nuggets team only to get swept by the Warriors.
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The title of the thread literally ends with "Brogdon instead of Dame" so it kinda is a Dame vs Brogdon thing. If it wasn't, the title would be "Is the franchise moving in a better direction this year than they were two years ago" and those two specific players would be left off.

You're also comparing different teams, with different coaching staffs, and different schemes, in 6 games when you attempt to compare if the team is better with Brogdon vs Dame. I'm willing to bet Brogdon does not lead this team, as their best player, to a playoff series win the entire time he's with Portland. The Blazers, the team, will not be better with Brodgon as their best player than they were with Dame as their best player.

Nobody in their right mind could possibly disagree with this.
 
wizenheimer said:
Dame played 830 games and 31,000 minutes for Portland

Brogdon has played 6 games and 178 minutes as a Blazer

dumb thread
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I wouldn’t say the thread is dumb, I’d just say that the concept is dumb. But it’s probably one and the same.

I just wanna make sure… It sounds like the OP is trying to say that Dame was part of the problem.

It’s a shame cause we are 3-0 since Ants injury, and Nurkic is straight dogging it in PHX.

Put Dame with Ayton, Sharpe, Scoot, etc…

Just makes me wish we didn’t waste those last
Years of Dame here with Nurk tbh. Denver was so sold on Jokic that they threw Nurk away to us and didn’t care that Mason never worked out. Skipped their way to a franchise first championship while we wished we had a center which would pair well with Dame.

Just a shame we couldn’t see Dame with Ayton TBH
 
Dame hasn't been on a good rebounding team since his very early days. Without the Dame trade, we'd still have traded for Ayton (and possibly Camara, too!), and we would be MUCH better.
 
PDXFonz said:
I wouldn’t say the thread is dumb, I’d just say that the concept is dumb. But it’s probably one and the same.

I just wanna make sure… It sounds like the OP is trying to say that Dame was part of the problem.

It’s a shame cause we are 3-0 since Ants injury, and Nurkic is straight dogging it in PHX.

Put Dame with Ayton, Sharpe, Scoot, etc…

Just makes me wish we didn’t waste those last
Years of Dame here with Nurk tbh.
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You just gave someone the idea to start a thread asking if the team is better without Ant.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Brogdon plays great defense and doesn't dominate the offense. He happily accepts a bench/starting role as the team needs.

Dame plays horrible defense and dominates the offense. Blazers currently have the 9th ranked defense and Bucks are 27th. Last year the Blazers were the 27th ranked defense and the Bucks were 4th.

Are the Blazers better with Brogdon instead of Dame?
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Not better... yet

Loosing Dame obviously hurts a lot. But Portland was in a groundhogs day scenario where every season was frustratingly similar.

It was time to move on. Blazers took a step backwards so that they can hopefully move 4-5 steps forward
 
I want to save this for a rainy day

o8Jejz6.jpg
 
Hoopguru said:
If Dame had Ayton

We will come down to earth on the d once we start playing high caliber teams. Plus seems to me Chaunceys teams as the season gets going the d drops off. Thats strictly my observation.....
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Very fair.

Tince said:
The title of the thread literally ends with "Brogdon instead of Dame" so it kinda is a Dame vs Brogdon thing. If it wasn't, the title would be "Is the franchise moving in a better direction this year than they were two years ago" and those two specific players would be left off.

You're also comparing different teams, with different coaching staffs, and different schemes, in 6 games when you attempt to compare if the team is better with Brogdon vs Dame. I'm willing to bet Brogdon does not lead this team, as their best player, to a playoff series win the entire time he's with Portland. The Blazers, the team, will not be better with Brodgon as their best player than they were with Dame as their best player.

Nobody in their right mind could possibly disagree with this.
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Again, Dame being the best player vs Brogdon being the best player is not the premise. Of course Dame is better....he is superstar level (offensively). But once upon a time, Monta Ellis was the best offensive player on the Warriors and they traded him for size, length and defense. None of those players were as good as Monte....especially offensively like he had been, but it was better for the WARRIORS.....the team.

Dame is the better player (offensively). Not sure anyone is even suggesting otherwise. But add in Brogdon's efficiency (he was a 50/40/90 player last year) and his defense, and perhaps it is a better fit for the team and possibly a better example to be a competitor on both ends.

How is that not up for at least a discussion. And it wasn't a statement. It was a question about the Blazers. Perhaps it could have been worded in a more precise manner, but it is a poll title for goodness sake.
 
THE HCP said:
I can’t believe this dude actually got 5 people to vote YES. This place never ceases to amaze.
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You can click on the now 6 people and see who they are though I’m sure you can guess at least three of them. Yep your buddy is in there.
 
TBpup said:
Very fair.

Again, Dame being the best player vs Brogdon being the best player is not the premise. Of course Dame is better....he is superstar level (offensively). But once upon a time, Monta Ellis was the best offensive player on the Warriors and they traded him for size, length and defense. None of those players were as good as Monte....especially offensively like he had been, but it was better for the WARRIORS.....the team.

Dame is the better player (offensively). Not sure anyone is even suggesting otherwise. But add in Brogdon's efficiency (he was a 50/40/90 player last year) and his defense, and perhaps it is a better fit for the team and possibly a better example to be a competitor on both ends.

How is that not up for at least a discussion. And it wasn't a statement. It was a question about the Blazers. Perhaps it could have been worded in a more precise manner, but it is a poll title for goodness sake.
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Again, nobody can make a claim this isn't a comparison between Dame/Brodgon when those two are specifically listed. It's not poorly worded, it's intentionally asking which player makes the team better.

We agree Dame is better than Brodgon. I'm not sure if you think Brogdon is our best player. If you don't, then asking if a top 75 player of all time makes a team better than a 6th man, with so many other moving parts, makes no sense. If you do think Brogdon is our best player, then I guess we'll see if he leads this team to a better regular season winning percentage than Dame did in 10 season.

Of course, any reasonable person will realize this team will finish with a worse record this year than an average season where Dame was healthy, and cite the many other variables for this, which is exactly my original point for why the question is silly.
 
Tince said:
Your last point is a very different discussion in regards to roster building and roster management.

When Brogdon leads us to the WCF with a marginal roster, I'll consider the idea that we're a better team with him vs Dame.
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While the thread title doesn’t distinguish the year, the OP makes it clear it’s a discussion of this year versus last year. Which is what my post focused on.
 
TBpup said:
Probably not....but the addition to defense by subtraction of Dame can't be entirely ignored.

Dame's last 4 years in Portland: 137-173 a .442 winning percentage.
Blazers in an incredibly small sample size after he has left: 3-3 a .500 winning percentage.

I expect the Blazers to be much worse, but Dame's time was over here and his lack and sometimes complete lack of effort on defense would not have been a good influence or mentoring situation for this young group. Ant was exposed to years of it and subsequently was one of the worst defenders in the league. This year he is at least showing more effort. I don't think that is coincidence. The CBS article calls Dame 'flat out lazy' in many of his defensive excursions with the jogging up the court we saw for years in Portland on D but very few would call him out for it, and when they did, they were "Dame haters".

Well, now it is one a bigger stage with tremendous talent around him and as of now, his defense is abysmal and his offense has declined tremendously. So maybe Portland is better off after all.....and certainly so in the long run. The effort is so much better with this group even if the execution is a huge work in progress.
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137-173 record is misleading. We benched him and tried to lose 25-30 of those games. And he missed time with surgery. If you’re going to say 3-3 without him, then post the record actually with him and actually without him. That said, I love the direction we’re headed.
 
TBpup said:
I didn't once compare Dame vs Brogdon. I compared early team results (all that anyone can do so far.....react to what is) and how MIL was tremendously declined on D and how the Blazers have become much better. I also have pointed out how much worse the Blazers are on offense....so looking at it big picture. Dame was amazing on offense, but poor on defense and historically poor on defense in MIL so far, especially given who he has behind him to help.
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Keep in mind, we started 4-0 last year. With Dame.
 
Mediocre Man said:
MUCH better defensively
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Agree, Yet 40 people voted to trade him by the deadline, including yourself. A lot of people wanting to make sure we tank again. My question is how many of those 40 will be bitching about Chauncey's record once we do.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Agree, Yet 40 people voted to trade him by the deadline, including yourself. A lot of people wanting to make sure we tank again. My question is how many of those 40 will be bitching about Chauncey's record once we do.
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I know I won't be complaining about Chauncey's record... the dude has never been given a functional roster and has never finished a season in which the team was trying to win games.

I would like to secure another high draft pick this season. Also I'd like to get some real value back for Malcolm in the form of prospects or draft capital. I think if you trade some of these guys that can help teams that need win now players we can end up with one of the worst records in the league without sitting our best guys and come out of the trades with even more value to continue the rebuild.
 
apples and oranges. For a rebuild and mentoring I give the nod to Mal. But Dame, all by himself, can completely take over a game. Brogdon isn't that kind of a player imho.
 
blazerkor said:
I know I won't be complaining about Chauncey's record... the dude has never been given a functional roster and has never finished a season in which the team was trying to win games.

I would like to secure another high draft pick this season. Also I'd like to get some real value back for Malcolm in the form of prospects or draft capital. I think if you trade some of these guys that can help teams that need win now players we can end up with one of the worst records in the league without sitting our best guys and come out of the trades with even more value to continue the rebuild.
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Yeah but now we are back to what would we really get in return from a contender. Another pick in the 20s for Malcolm is not enough. I prefer keeping 2-way players since we rarely get them.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Agree, Yet 40 people voted to trade him by the deadline, including yourself. A lot of people wanting to make sure we tank again. My question is how many of those 40 will be bitching about Chauncey's record once we do.
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I couldn't care less about Chauncey's record. I care about him developing the correct people. If guys aren't developing we need to get somebody in here who will do a better job.

Benching Sharpe is not a good look.
 
Sorry man. Tbis instant world makes it easy to forget the past and have revisionist history.
@SharpesTriumph , ask yourself this. Do you think Brogdon gets the teams Dame had to the playoffs every year like Dame did?
If not, then You answered your own question, and i think its pretty obvious what that answer is.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
Sorry man. Tbis instant world makes it easy to forget the past and have revisionist history.
@SharpesTriumph , ask yourself this. Do you think Brogdon gets the teams Dame had to the playoffs every year like Dame did?
If not, then You answered your own question, and i think its pretty obvious what that answer is.
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I'll tell you this much: I was hoping for a CJ-for-Brogdon deal years ago when Brogdon was in Indy.
 
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