Are The Knicks Finished??

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dtpxcore

dtpxcore

JBB The Regulator
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<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> As the above states, Jalen Rose is not the last ?new Knick? ? an informed league source says that while the Knicks were hopeful they could last the season with their young core, but have said enough is enough to the losing and are beginning to fear Larry Brown may jump ship if they don?t do something. The Knicks have opened the phone lines trying to get veteran help to get into the playoffs. Jalen Rose is not a perfect fit, but at least a consistent one, and right now it seems Larry Brown is willing to trade some of his wrinkles for some consistency. In a surprising piece of news (which I?ll believe when I see it) ? it seems the Knicks may have moved off their ?untouchable? stance regarding Channing Frye and David Lee, if this is indeed true, the Knicks may find a couple of new trading partners that have pieces they would need for a playoff push ? namely Atlanta and Al Harrington. </div>

Source
 
i think the knicks made a huge mistake of signing larry brown as their coach in the off season. the knicks should have went in a rebuilding mode. but isiah is just too stupid to realize it. he keeps on putting a team together hoping to win, but is never successful. isiah just doesnt know that its time to rebuild
 
We've been finished since Isiah was signed as the President and GM of the Knicks.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">We've been finished since Isiah was signed as the President and GM of the Knicks.</div>
yep. and at this rate you guys are going, you will be finished for a long time to come. i hope to god for the knicks sake that isiah doesnt trade for over paid, injury prone kenyon martin
 
This year? yes.

With Penny's contract 3 picks, and 3 valuable rookies. New York can trade for whatever pieces they need for next year for Brown's team. As well the MLE can be used for any tweaks.

With Curry at Center and Marbury at SG, there are two holes plugged. I'm sure the remaining 3 can be filled with trades, MLE, developing rookies, or drafting.
 
Marbury is running the one...we need a shooting guard, literally, the absence of Allan Houston has been missed. We need a pure shooter who can come off curls, screens, and hit J's from anywhere in the court consistantly.

We also need more perimeter defenders, and a post defender at this point.

Theres more, but those are just the major issues we're facing that puts us in a losing situation.
 
I don't like to count out teams prematurely, but it looks like the Knicks are done. Nine games out of the eighth spot is hard to get to, especially with your best player, one of the most durable players in the league, sidelined with a shoulder injury. The most the Knicks can hope for is the Nuggets struggle and end up in the lottery, or they can at least get out of the top 5 lottery spot. It's not too bad though considering that this is a very weak draft. If this were 2003 or 2007, I would be much more concerned.
 
This team was done since the off season. I said it from the very beginning this team is extremely flawed and no force on Earth could get this team in the playoffs. It has no winners on it, has no heart, no toughness, cant rebound, cant defend and cant make plays when the game is on the line. What little hope the Knicks did have retired before the season began. To add insult to injury the Knicks traded their draft pick and have to exchange picks next year as well as give up several second rounders for Curry who's been a big fat non difference maker. So were left with one of the worst records in the league, no picks, no caproom, in short no way to get better. So yes the Knicks are finished. And their finished for next year and the year after that as well.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">It's not too bad though considering that this is a very weak draft. If this were 2003 or 2007, I would be much more concerned.</div>

Ah still regurgitating what Isiah Thomas says I see. Didnt he say that to justify giving up the Knicks pick in that draft for Marbury? How much do you want to bet that Isiah sometime next season that the 2007 draft is going to be a weak draft and that giving up that pick for Curry was the smart move? Oh well just for the record I'd like to let it be known that I'd trade Curry for any of the top eight guys in this year's draft.


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">This team was done since the off season. I said it from the very beginning this team is extremely flawed and no force on Earth could get this team in the playoffs. It has no winners on it, has no heart, no toughness, cant rebound, cant defend and cant make plays when the game is on the line. What little hope the Knicks did have retired before the season began. To add insult to injury the Knicks traded their draft pick and have to exchange picks next year as well as give up several second rounders for Curry who's been a big fat non difference maker. So were left with one of the worst records in the league, no picks, no caproom, in short no way to get better. So yes the Knicks are finished. And their finished for next year and the year after that as well.</div>
I actually think the Knicks could have made the 8th seed if Brown coached the team better. They're have been many occasions when Brown's tinkering cost us games and those ridiculously inconsistent starting lineups/inactice lists is the reason why the Knicks have played so inconsistently. Had they had Herb Williams, Lenny Wilkins, or even Don Chaney, I think we would be about .500 or so right now. It's pointless speculating though. We are what we are.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ah still regurgitating what Isiah Thomas says I see. Didnt he say that to justify giving up the Knicks pick in that draft for Marbury? How much do you want to bet that Isiah sometime next season that the 2007 draft is going to be a weak draft and that giving up that pick for Curry was the smart move? Oh well just for the record I'd like to let it be known that I'd trade Curry for any of the top eight guys in this year's draft.</div>
No, he didn't say that about the pick in 2004. The Marbury situation was very different from the Curry situation. In 2004, we were trading for an established NBA star in Marbury. The pick we gave to Phoenix had nothing to do with the status of the draft. It's been pretty well known the 2006 draft would be weak even before the 2005 draft. They're only few prospects with star potential. It's definitely not as deep as last years draft either. I still don't like the fact we didn't protect the pick, but this draft doesn't look like it's going to be good at all.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I actually think the Knicks could have made the 8th seed if Brown coached the team better. They're have been many occasions when Brown's tinkering cost us games and those ridiculously inconsistent starting lineups/inactice lists is the reason why the Knicks have played so inconsistently. Had they had Herb Williams, Lenny Wilkins, or even Don Chaney, I think we would be about .500 or so right now. It's pointless speculating though. We are what we are.</div>

You're just as delusional as Trevor Ariza if you think we could make the playoffs with Williams, Wilkens or Chaney! The bottom line is Jesus Christ himself couldnt get this team to around .500!

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">No, he didn't say that about the pick in 2004. The Marbury situation was very different from the Curry situation. In 2004, we were trading for an established NBA star in Marbury. The pick we gave to Phoenix had nothing to do with the status of the draft. It's been pretty well known the 2006 draft would be weak even before the 2005 draft. They're only few prospects with star potential. It's definitely not as deep as last years draft either. I still don't like the fact we didn't protect the pick, but this draft doesn't look like it's going to be good at all.</div>

Actually he did say that the 2004 draft was going to be weak and that the pick didnt matter. Look it up if you dont believe me. I said it before and I'll say it again: I'll trade Curry for any of the top eight picks in this upcoming draft. Aldridge will be better than Curry as will Splitter and Bargnani and those are just the big men. Gay and Morrison, small forwards(a position were lacking at right now), will be better than Curry. Redick, the sharpshooter the Knicks need, will be better than Curry. And I'm certain Larry Brown would rather have Shelden Williams right now than Curry.


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post"> this is a very weak draft. .</div>
WTF?!??!?!?!?!??!??!!??!?!?!?
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">You're just as delusional as Trevor Ariza if you think we could make the playoffs with Williams, Wilkens or Chaney! The bottom line is Jesus Christ himself couldnt get this team to around .500!</div>
So, you don't think Brown's 30 different starting lineups, and questionable substitutions had anything to do with the Knicks struggling? Why couldn't the Knicks be at .500 had they had the rest of those coaches?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually he did say that the 2004 draft was going to be weak and that the pick didnt matter. Look it up if you dont believe me. I said it before and I'll say it again: I'll trade Curry for any of the top eight picks in this upcoming draft. Aldridge will be better than Curry as will Splitter and Bargnani and those are just the big men. Gay and Morrison, small forwards(a position were lacking at right now), will be better than Curry. Redick, the sharpshooter the Knicks need, will be better than Curry. And I'm certain Larry Brown would rather have Shelden Williams right now than Curry.</div>
I don't remember him saying that, but at least the 2004 draft had some future stars in it. We knew that before hand. The fact of the matter is whether or not Isiah Thomas thinks it or not, as it stands now, this draft will be weak. Read anywhere and they'll say this draft isn't looking good at all.

Splitter isn't/probably won't be as good as Curry. He's rail thin and always withdraws his name from the draft. Coincidence? I'm not sold on Bargani. There have been tons of "next Dirk's" out there. What makes him any different? Weren?t you so opposed to getting Frye because he was a jump shooting big man. What?s the difference with Bargani? The fact that he?s less polished, and less experienced? Gay has potential, but he's really underacheiving and doesn't have the mindset to be anything more than a role player in the NBA. Reddick won?t be as good as Curry. He dominated college ball, but the NBA is a whole different ball game. Reddick doesn?t have NBA quickness and is somewhat undersized, so he?ll have more trouble getting his shots off. Morrison is looking good and could be as good as Curry, but they?re many ?ifs? to his game. Shelden Williams is great, but doesn?t have as much potential as Curry. That?s the reason why we got Curry in the first place, because of his potential.

Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.[/QUOTE]
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">So, you don't think Brown's 30 different starting lineups, and questionable substitutions had anything to do with the Knicks struggling? Why couldn't the Knicks be at .500 had they had the rest of those coaches?</div>

Do you think all the different starting line ups have a thing to do with the fact that the team doesnt play defense? Do you think that has anything to do with effort? We know those coaches couldnt do a better job because we had them and they were all deemed inadequate. Larry Brown is generally considered to be the best coach in the league. Everywhere he has gone he has won. Everywhere! So the problem must be the team. Who has to fail with this pathetic grouping of so called basketball players before you realize that this team cant win? Phil Jackson? Scott Skiles? Nate McMillan?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't remember him saying that, but at least the 2004 draft had some future stars in it. We knew that before hand. The fact of the matter is whether or not Isiah Thomas thinks it or not, as it stands now, this draft will be weak. Read anywhere and they'll say this draft isn't looking good at all.

Splitter isn't/probably won't be as good as Curry. He's rail thin and always withdraws his name from the draft. Coincidence? I'm not sold on Bargani. There have been tons of "next Dirk's" out there. What makes him any different? Weren?t you so opposed to getting Frye because he was a jump shooting big man. What?s the difference with Bargani? The fact that he?s less polished, and less experienced? Gay has potential, but he's really underacheiving and doesn't have the mindset to be anything more than a role player in the NBA. Reddick won?t be as good as Curry. He dominated college ball, but the NBA is a whole different ball game. Reddick doesn?t have NBA quickness and is somewhat undersized, so he?ll have more trouble getting his shots off. Morrison is looking good and could be as good as Curry, but they?re many ?ifs? to his game. Shelden Williams is great, but doesn?t have as much potential as Curry. That?s the reason why we got Curry in the first place, because of his potential.</div>

If you dont remember then just google it. As I recall everyone was saying that the 2005 draft would be weak as well. Now it's going to go down as one of the deepest drafts in NBA history.

Splitter will certainly be a better rebounder than Curry. And there isnt and will never be a comparison between the two defensively that's how much better Splitter is at defense. And on the offensive end he can post up, slash to the hoop or knock down the midrange jumper. Did I mention he was a much better passer as well? Anyone who knows anything about Splitter knows the reason why he hasnt stayed in previous drafts is because of his buyout situation. Last draft he didnt even have a buyout clause in his contract so he had no choice. International prospects' stock usually falls when there's an issue with their buyout(Majec Lampe, Luis Scola) But I guess you didnt know that. By the way everyone is saying Splitter will be able to play center in the NBA. Remember you I told you that last year?

As for Bargnani...when it looked like he was going to be in the draft he was at the top of everyone's mockdraft. Remember? You even asked me who he was when you first saw that. I was opposed to getting Frye because he is a role player. I sure hope you're not saying Nowitzki is a role player. Frye more polished than Bargnani? Bargnani is only shooting more than 40% from behind the arc this year and is only capable of beating any big man(including Chris Bosh)off the dribble. So yeah I guess Frye is better than Bargnani...that was sarcasm you know.

I dont think anyone will agree with you saying Curry will be better than Adam Morrison or Rudy Gay. And I believe most people realize that Redick's game will translate over very well into the NBA. Williams will be a far superior rebounder and defender than Curry as well.

Potential? Is that the reason why the Knicks are one of the worst teams in the NBA and have to trade away their young talent because they have no draft pick? Is that Isiah Thomas's justification for the situation we are in? You are vastly overrating Curry. He is a weak rebounder and an even worse defender. Right off the top of my head I could think of ten centers in this league better than him and quite a few powerforwards who could do the job better than him. The fact that the Knicks are a better team without him than with him tells it all.

By the way for future reference, and I mean this with all due respect, you might want stop acting like an ignorant homer and actually educate yourself. Everyone knows why Splitter pulled his name out of the draft and comparing Bargnani to Frye was just plain stupid. Then saying Gay is all potential in a negative way than turning around and justifiying the ridiculous trade that brought Curry here by using the potential card was pretty dumb too. What you said about Redick at least made more sense. But that was bad too considering Redick has proven the doubters wrong over and over again and is now turning skeptics into believers. I dont know if you legitimately dont know about these prospects or if you're such a big homer that you just choose to ignore the facts for the purposes of your argument. But whatever it is you need to fix it.

Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Do you think all the different starting line ups have a thing to do with the fact that the team doesnt play defense? Do you think that has anything to do with effort? We know those coaches couldnt do a better job because we had them and they were all deemed inadequate. Larry Brown is generally considered to be the best coach in the league. Everywhere he has gone he has won. Everywhere! So the problem must be the team. Who has to fail with this pathetic grouping of so called basketball players before you realize that this team cant win? Phil Jackson? Scott Skiles? Nate McMillan?</div>
The Knicks defense isn't good, but it went from bad to worse. That has something to do with the fact Brown seems to love the idea of keeping our best defender, Trevor Ariza, on the bench. Or Lee, our best power forward is glued to the bench. Everywhere Brown has gone he's won, but is this someway due to the fact he can't stay in one place? Why is it that when teams are on their downfall like the Clippers and 76ers he decides to leave? Don?t get me wrong. I don?t think this is a great team by any stretch. I just think the team is better than 14-33 without those ridiculous starting lineups.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If you dont remember then just google it. As I recall everyone was saying that the 2005 draft would be weak as well. Now it's going to go down as one of the deepest drafts in NBA history.</div>
Nope, everyone knew it was going to be a pretty deep draft. I don?t remember them saying it was weak. I remember them saying there were only a few potential superstars, but solid role players all throughout.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Splitter will certainly be a better rebounder than Curry. And there isnt and will never be a comparison between the two defensively that's how much better Splitter is at defense. And on the offensive end he can post up, slash to the hoop or knock down the midrange jumper. Did I mention he was a much better passer as well?</div>
How can you be so sure Splitter will be a better rebounder than Curry? The man is literally a toothpick. He?s skinnier than Channing Frye, Chris Bosh, and just about any lanky power forward out there. How will he hold his own against NBA competition. And no, he can?t add a significant amount of muscle to hold his own against NBA competition in one year. Splitter still can?t shoot, can?t post up at the NBA level because of his lanky frame.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyone who knows anything about Splitter knows the reason why he hasnt stayed in previous drafts is because of his buyout situation. Last draft he didnt even have a buyout clause in his contract so he had no choice. International prospects' stock usually falls when there's an issue with their buyout(Majec Lampe, Luis Scola) But I guess you didnt know that. By the way everyone is saying Splitter will be able to play center in the NBA. Remember you I told you that last year?</div>
I thought he withdrew because he was worried the high school kids would take his spot. And if Splitter didn?t have a buyout clause in his contract why did he even enter the draft in the first place? Splitter is to skinny and frail to play center in the NBA. Imagine matching up against guys like Shaq, Curry, and Magloire on a nightly basis. He won?t be able to survive at all.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for Bargnani...when it looked like he was going to be in the draft he was at the top of everyone's mockdraft. Remember? You even asked me who he was when you first saw that. I was opposed to getting Frye because he is a role player. I sure hope you're not saying Nowitzki is a role player. Frye more polished than Bargnani? Bargnani is only shooting more than 40% from behind the arc this year and is only capable of beating any big man(including Chris Bosh)off the dribble. So yeah I guess Frye is better than Bargnani...that was sarcasm you know.</div>
Yeah, I remember asking you and I don?t feel convinced he?s ?the next Dirk.? What makes Bargani any different than Lampe, Cabarkapa, Nachbar, or other European players proven to be busts? 40% from downtown doesn?t impress me at all. I?ll give you a list of college players shooting 40%+ from downtown. All because he can knock down the international shot (which happens to be shorter than the NBA one) doesn?t mean he can do it consistently in the NBA. Does he even average 10 points? Chris Bosh isn?t a good defender at all. So, this is what we know: he shoots over 40% from the international three-point line, and can beat bad defenders off the dribble. So, I ask you again, what makes him the next Dirk?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I dont think anyone will agree with you saying Curry will be better than Adam Morrison or Rudy Gay. And I believe most people realize that Redick's game will translate over very well into the NBA. Williams will be a far superior rebounder and defender than Curry as well.</div>
I didn?t say Curry will definitely be better than Morrison or Rudy Gay. I said Gay has underachieved and doesn?t have the mindset to be a star in the league. I said Morrison could be as good as or better than Curry, but he has many ifs surrounding him. Reddick?s game might not translate into the league well at all. He?s 6?4? (you even said that was undersized), isn?t quick or athletic, can?t play point guard, and is kind of streaky. Imagine him trying to guard Wade, Kobe, McGrady, Carter, Pierce, and the list goes on. He?ll be murdered and because he?s not very athletic or has superb quickness he might not be able to get his shot off well. You?re right about Shelden Williams. No argument.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Potential? Is that the reason why the Knicks are one of the worst teams in the NBA and have to trade away their young talent because they have no draft pick? Is that Isiah Thomas's justification for the situation we are in? You are vastly overrating Curry. He is a weak rebounder and an even worse defender. Right off the top of my head I could think of ten centers in this league better than him and quite a few powerforwards who could do the job better than him. The fact that the Knicks are a better team without him than with him tells it all.</div>
I?m never said I like the trade. I already said this numerous times Isiah should have protected it. The reason why we?re in the state we?re in is because of Larry Brown who isn?t doing a good job as of right now. The confusion and inconsistency Brown brings is why we are where we are. Curry was brought in because we didn?t have another starting caliber center. Once Curry gets used to the system he?ll be solid. I think the fact the Bulls are struggling after Curry left shows how valuable he can be.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">By the way for future reference, and I mean this with all due respect, you might want stop acting like an ignorant homer and actually educate yourself.</div>
So, I?m an ignorant homer because I?m not in love with Splitter like you are? I mean really who but you wants Splitter other than you? Why can?t you understand Splitter is too frail to play center in the NBA and the fact that he can hold his own in Europe against NBA snubs and future CBA role players doesn?t mean he can hold his own against NBA-caliber centers.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Everyone knows why Splitter pulled his name out of the draft</div>
He?s worried the high school players, who happen to be better than him, will take his rightful place? No, wait there?s no buyout agreement on his contract.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">and comparing Bargnani to Frye was just plain stupid.</div>
Yeah, you?re right. Frye is better than Bargani who still doesn?t average 10 points a game and shoots 40% from the international three-point line.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Then saying Gay is all potential in a negative way than turning around and justifiying the ridiculous trade that brought Curry here by using the potential card was pretty dumb too.</div>
Where the hell did I try to justify the trade? I said in many threads/posts including this one that I didn?t like the trade and Isiah should of protected the pick. I said Gay doesn?t have the mindset as in no killer instinct or desire to be a star in the league. I?m not alone in this either. There have been other people who have said the same thing to. If you like I?ll give you other good posters, who seem to agree about Gay lacking the killer instinct to be a superstar in the league.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What you said about Redick at least made more sense. But that was bad too considering Redick has proven the doubters wrong over and over again and is now turning skeptics into believers. I dont know if you legitimately dont know about these prospects or if you're such a big homer that you just choose to ignore the facts for the purposes of your argument. But whatever it is you need to fix it. </div>
So, it?s wrong for me to think a shooting guard who is thin, undersized, non athletic, and somewhat lacking in foot speed won?t be as good as Curry? Let me ask you this: do you think J.J. Reddick will be as good as Eddy Curry. What do you mean prove doubters wrong? The only way he?ll ever prove himself is when he steps foot onto an NBA court and produces at a high level night-in and night-out. How are you going to question me and then say a player will be better than Curry before he even steps foot in the league? If anything that doesn?t make any sense.
 
Bargnani's actually got a pretty good post game to complement his outside shooting. Surprisingly, he's been able to compete against the bigger, more physical opponents in the Euroleague, which is probably why he'll be a better prospect than Frye.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">Bargnani's actually got a pretty good post game to complement his outside shooting. Surprisingly, he's been able to compete against the bigger, more physical opponents in the Euroleague, which is probably why he'll be a better prospect than Frye.</div>
He's not better currently. I agree he does have the potential to be better, but I just don't know what's the difference between him Lampe and the other guys projected the next Dirk.
 
The difference is with his post game: he's already shown the ability to play under the basket and has impressed with his post-moves. All he needs to do is continue to improve his toughness and strength and he could have a deadly inside-outside combination when he comes to the League.

There's really no comparison to Lampe. Lampe was essentially a 4 that beat his man off the dribble and shot. Scouts assumed that they could teach him some basic post moves, but he has yet to develop them. He also was a weak rebounder and post defender, which essentially made him a 3 in a 4's body. Bargnani has already shown good shotblocking and rebounding skills. I personally don't like the Dirk comparisons. He's not as good a shooter, but prefers to beat his man off the dribble. Whenever I've seen him play, he's reminded me more of Chris Bosh.
 
The Knicks are done for this season, but I still like their team (since it's composed of the Bulls used parts). I like Jamal Crawford even though almost everybody hates him. I still think he will make a good player one day just as to still work on his shot selection. The rookies NY have are awesome (how can you not love Nate Robinson??). The Knicks should NOT trade the young guys! That's the only bright light the Knicks have right now. The Knicks just need to get experience, next year should make a playoff run. If they don't make the playoffs in the next two seasons, then the franchise...
 
Sigh. I'm sorry I dont mean to be a pest but can you not cut up the post and respond to small piece after small piece like that? Its disorientating and makes responding harder than it has to be.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">The Knicks defense isn't good, but it went from bad to worse. That has something to do with the fact Brown seems to love the idea of keeping our best defender, Trevor Ariza, on the bench. Or Lee, our best power forward is glued to the bench. Everywhere Brown has gone he's won, but is this someway due to the fact he can't stay in one place? Why is it that when teams are on their downfall like the Clippers and 76ers he decides to leave? Don?t get me wrong. I don?t think this is a great team by any stretch. I just think the team is better than 14-33 without those ridiculous starting lineups.</div>

The Knick defense didnt go from bad to worse because of Larry Brown's rotations. The rotations have absolutely nothing to do with the defense and the effort. The Knicks have gone from bad to worse defensively because Kurt Thomas is gone. There are better players ahead of Ariza in the rotation and Lee cant get off the bench because Taylor gives the Knicks a low post prescence off the bench. You have your logic backwards. Larry Brown doesnt leave when teams are on their downfall. The teams go into a tailspin because Larry Brown leaves. This team is what it is. I'll ask you again: Who has to fail with this team before you realize this team simply sucks? Scott Skiles? Nate McMillan? Phil Jackson? Jerry Sloan?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Nope, everyone knew it was going to be a pretty deep draft. I don?t remember them saying it was weak. I remember them saying there were only a few potential superstars, but solid role players all throughout.</div>
Do I really have to pull up quotes of people saying it was going to be a weak draft and then changing their minds weeks later saying it would be a deep draft?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">How can you be so sure Splitter will be a better rebounder than Curry? The man is literally a toothpick. He?s skinnier than Channing Frye, Chris Bosh, and just about any lanky power forward out there. How will he hold his own against NBA competition. And no, he can?t add a significant amount of muscle to hold his own against NBA competition in one year. Splitter still can?t shoot, can?t post up at the NBA level because of his lanky frame.

I thought he withdrew because he was worried the high school kids would take his spot. And if Splitter didn?t have a buyout clause in his contract why did he even enter the draft in the first place? Splitter is to skinny and frail to play center in the NBA. Imagine matching up against guys like Shaq, Curry, and Magloire on a nightly basis. He won?t be able to survive at all.</div>

Please stop it with you misinformation. It really is getting annoying. You have no idea how strong Splitter is so just stop. The same way I'm sure Shelden Williams will be a better rebounder than Curry is the same way I'm sure Splitter will be a better rebounder as well. Splitter has continually over the past few years added more and more muscle. It is generally believed that Tiago Splitter will definetely will able to easily add more than enough muscle to play center in the NBA. That is the opinion of scouts and everyone else who pays close attention to prospects. Do you really want to go against that? By the way I'd just like to remind you that Camby is a tooth pick. Chris Bosh who you just said is stronger than Splitter, even though you really dont know that for a fact, is skinny as well and they both happen to be better rebounders than Curry. I want to ask you a question. Do you think Splitter will not end up being a better rebounder than Curry? Bear in mind Draftexpress has Splitter's worst case scenario as a "More Athletic Jeff Foster" and Curry is averaging about 6 rebounds per game on a team devoid of good rebounders. As far as his shooting he has proven he can knock down the midrange jumper as well as a trey here and there when he is given some offensive freedom. But I suppose you didnt hear about what happened at the Tournament of the Americas?

So you really didnt know why Splitter withdrew??? What a surprise... His team had the option of putting a buyout clause in place. The Splitter camp entered the draft thinking they would be able to work something out with the team but the team didnt give them any breaks and refused to put in a buyout clause. As I have already said Splitter's work ethic is legendary in Spain. Over the past few years he has continually added muscle to his body and most scouts agree that he'll have absolutely no problem gaining the muscle needed to play in the NBA. Do you(someone who clearly has no knowledge on the prospect) wish to go on record having gone against the opinion of the experts?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, I remember asking you and I don?t feel convinced he?s ?the next Dirk.? What makes Bargani any different than Lampe, Cabarkapa, Nachbar, or other European players proven to be busts? 40% from downtown doesn?t impress me at all. I?ll give you a list of college players shooting 40%+ from downtown. All because he can knock down the international shot (which happens to be shorter than the NBA one) doesn?t mean he can do it consistently in the NBA. Does he even average 10 points? Chris Bosh isn?t a good defender at all. So, this is what we know: he shoots over 40% from the international three-point line, and can beat bad defenders off the dribble. So, I ask you again, what makes him the next Dirk?</div>

Lampe was a really big small forward without a post up game as Chutney already explained. I really dont know much about the others. Sorry. 40% from downtown doesnt impress you? Does 50% impress you? I'm sorry about posting up the 40% from before I was wrong, he is actually shooting 50%. I do believe that is a higher percentage than Dirk Nowitzki shot when he played in Europe. Actually I'm glad you asked if he averaged 10 points because he averages 9.9 points per game in the Euroleague. And he does even better in the Italian league. Again please stop it with your misinformation. You dont know if he faces bad defenders or good defenders. And by the way there are a whole lot of bad defenders in the NBA so what difference does it make? Maybe if you actually watched him play or even just read up on him instead of just making ignorant statements you'll know why he's the next Dirk.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I didn?t say Curry will definitely be better than Morrison or Rudy Gay. I said Gay has underachieved and doesn?t have the mindset to be a star in the league. I said Morrison could be as good as or better than Curry, but he has many ifs surrounding him. Reddick?s game might not translate into the league well at all. He?s 6?4? (you even said that was undersized), isn?t quick or athletic, can?t play point guard, and is kind of streaky. Imagine him trying to guard Wade, Kobe, McGrady, Carter, Pierce, and the list goes on. He?ll be murdered and because he?s not very athletic or has superb quickness he might not be able to get his shot off well. You?re right about Shelden Williams. No argument.</div>

I do believe Gay has been coming on strong lately so I'll be careful about calling him an underachiever. And what does being a star have to do with him being better than Curry. Curry is far from being a star in this league so who cares if Gay becomes a star or not. I'm going to ask you right now do you think Curry will be a better player than Morrison? I want you to make a stand on this issue right now. Keep in mind I will throw this answer in your face later on. As for Redick you do realize people were saying the same thing about Michael Redd right? Undersized, too slow, cant defend and all that. You can plainly see who was proved wrong.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I?m never said I like the trade. I already said this numerous times Isiah should have protected it. The reason why we?re in the state we?re in is because of Larry Brown who isn?t doing a good job as of right now. The confusion and inconsistency Brown brings is why we are where we are. Curry was brought in because we didn?t have another starting caliber center. Once Curry gets used to the system he?ll be solid. I think the fact the Bulls are struggling after Curry left shows how valuable he can be.</div>

So the Knicks would be a .500 team without Larry Brown???
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Please just stop! Is that why the Knicks dont put in an effort because their confused? Curry was brought in because Isiah Thomas is an idiot. He overrated Curry plain and simple. Who cares about the Bulls??? They have two lottery picks and tons of caproom next year. Their going to be just fine. The fact that the Knicks suck as much this year as they did last year shows exactly how much of a factor Curry has been. How long does Curry need to get acclimated into the system? I know he's not that bright but come on!

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">So, I?m an ignorant homer because I?m not in love with Splitter like you are? I mean really who but you wants Splitter other than you? Why can?t you understand Splitter is too frail to play center in the NBA and the fact that he can hold his own in Europe against NBA snubs and future CBA role players doesn?t mean he can hold his own against NBA-caliber centers.

He?s worried the high school players, who happen to be better than him, will take his rightful place? No, wait there?s no buyout agreement on his contract.</div>

Well at least you admit it. That's the first step you know, admitting you have a problem. You're an ignorant homer because you just make things up, refuse to listen to reason and argue with losing facts. No matter what kind of facts are presented you just stick to your guns. Everyone knows that. As far as you're concerned Isiah Thomas and the players can do no wrong. Larry Brown, who you treated like a Messiah during the summer, is the reason why the Knicks suck. You defend mediocre players to the death simply because they wear Knick uniforms. When Nazr Mohammed was with the Knicks you felt he should have been an All Star. When he was traded you thought he was a bum.

Blaming Larry Brown of all people for this lousy team is stupid. Comparing Bargnani to Frye was just plain ignorant. Period. The reason why noone else is talking about Splitter around here is because we dont have a pick so it doesnt matter. So all the scouts who watch Splitter are wrong and you who know next to nothing about him are right? Did I get that right?

I'm sure you're trying to imply something. But I'm not sure what it is.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, you?re right. Frye is better than Bargani who still doesn?t average 10 points a game and shoots 40% from the international three-point line.</div>

I just apologized and said I was wrong about Bargnani shooting 40%. But I never said anything about him not averaging 10 points per game. More of your imaginary stats I suppose.

Where the hell did I try to justify the trade? I said in many threads/posts including this one that I didn?t like the trade and Isiah should of protected the pick. I said Gay doesn?t have the mindset as in no killer instinct or desire to be a star in the league. I?m not alone in this either. There have been other people who have said the same thing to. If you like I?ll give you other good posters, who seem to agree about Gay lacking the killer instinct to be a superstar in the league.

So if you knew the pick wasnt going to be protected would you have still done the trade?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">So, it?s wrong for me to think a shooting guard who is thin, undersized, non athletic, and somewhat lacking in foot speed won?t be as good as Curry? Let me ask you this: do you think J.J. Reddick will be as good as Eddy Curry. What do you mean prove doubters wrong? The only way he?ll ever prove himself is when he steps foot onto an NBA court and produces at a high level night-in and night-out. How are you going to question me and then say a player will be better than Curry before he even steps foot in the league? If anything that doesn?t make any sense.</div>

Do yourself a favor. Just read up about him and you'll know why he'll be a better player than Curry. You overrate Curry plain and simple. Funny thing is if Curry were to get traded tomorrow you'd say he was overrated as well.


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Sigh. I'm sorry I dont mean to be a pest but can you not cut up the post and respond to small piece after small piece like that? Its disorientating and makes responding harder than it has to be.</div>
Okay, next time. It’s hard arguing all of your points like that.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Knick defense didnt go from bad to worse because of Larry Brown's rotations. The rotations have absolutely nothing to do with the defense and the effort. The Knicks have gone from bad to worse defensively because Kurt Thomas is gone. There are better players ahead of Ariza in the rotation and Lee cant get off the bench because Taylor gives the Knicks a low post prescence off the bench. You have your logic backwards. Larry Brown doesnt leave when teams are on their downfall. The teams go into a tailspin because Larry Brown leaves. This team is what it is. I'll ask you again: Who has to fail with this team before you realize this team simply sucks? Scott Skiles? Nate McMillan? Phil Jackson? Jerry Sloan?</div>
Don’t blame the Knicks becoming worse on Kurt Thomas that’s asinine. Kurt Thomas was a very good defender, but his defense didn’t have a significant effect on our team’s defense. When he was here we gave up 100 points and when he left we now give up 101 points. Is another sacrificed point such a big difference? If the Knicks suck on defense, why is our best defender on the bench? Don’t give me they’re better players ahead of him. Ariza isn’t good on offense, but neither is Rose, Richardson, or James. Taylor and Lee were both playing significant minutes together during the win streak, so why can’t they play together again? And what does the low post presence matter anyway? What matters is the Knicks play better with Lee on the floor then they do with Taylor. I also notice you said the Knicks don’t rebound. Did you have any idea they’re 8th in the league in rebounds per game? More of YOUR imaginary stats I suppose. Don’t give me the teams go in a tailspin because he leaves when Brown senses losing he leaves. I like Brown to, but you really have to hop off of him. By his own admission:
<font size="2">“It starts with me, I've got to do better," Brown said.</font>

<font size="2">A person familiar with the situation said the Knicks players are confused by Brown's changing rotations and his critiques to the media. Consequently, the person said, the players haven't bonded off the court and there's no on-court chemistry either.</font>

That has an effect on a team. 30 starting lineups in 48 games with numerous rotation changes has an effect on a team. You expect Brown’s trashing to the media is going to help the team? The players have said they don’t appreciate Brown doing that and it’s just further alienating the team. If you gave this team a regular coach with a consistent starting lineup and rotation I think this team can be decent.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Do I really have to pull up quotes of people saying it was going to be a weak draft and then changing their minds weeks later saying it would be a deep draft?</div>
Yes, please do.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Please stop it with you misinformation. It really is getting annoying. You have no idea how strong Splitter is so just stop. The same way I'm sure Shelden Williams will be a better rebounder than Curry is the same way I'm sure Splitter will be a better rebounder as well. Splitter has continually over the past few years added more and more muscle. It is generally believed that Tiago Splitter will definetely will able to easily add more than enough muscle to play center in the NBA. That is the opinion of scouts and everyone else who pays close attention to prospects. Do you really want to go against that? By the way I'd just like to remind you that Camby is a tooth pick. Chris Bosh who you just said is stronger than Splitter, even though you really dont know that for a fact, is skinny as well and they both happen to be better rebounders than Curry. I want to ask you a question. Do you think Splitter will not end up being a better rebounder than Curry? Bear in mind Draftexpress has Splitter's worst case scenario as a "More Athletic Jeff Foster" and Curry is averaging about 6 rebounds per game on a team devoid of good rebounders. As far as his shooting he has proven he can knock down the midrange jumper as well as a trey here and there when he is given some offensive freedom. But I suppose you didnt hear about what happened at the Tournament of the Americas?</div>
Shelden Williams and Tiago Splitter are two different cases. Shelden Williams is very strong physically and has the experience of playing four years under the best coach in college basketball under one of the best, if not THE best basketball program in the nation in Duke. Can you really compare him to Splitter who’s playing overseas against many undrafted NBA players? Oh, yeah. Euroleague is better than NCAA Basketball, right?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, here is what Shapecity, a very knowledgeable poster on this site, said about Tiago Splitter:

Just for you here's a video clip of Tiago Splitter Video Clip

After you watch him get 2 un-contested dunks and make a nice block, focus on two other things.

1. He's very skinny without much muscle, also he does not have a big frame and no wide shoulders, so he likely won't be able to bulk up much.

2. Even though he ended up blocking the shot on defense, it's not a good sign. Watch how easy he gets backed down by that offensive player, if he does that against an NBA power forward, he gets posterized on that play.</div>

When Camby first got into the league he was abused by centers and he has more muscle than Splitter. Same thing goes for Bosh. That’s why he’s not playing center anymore. You’re too obsessed with that DraftExpress website. Those player comparison things are really just an afterthought. You put too much on them. They also said Julius Hodge’s best case scenario was Penny Hardaway and his worst case scenario was Marquis Daniels. Also that DraftExpress website says Bargani has absolutely no post up game. Who should I believe you or the scouts?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So you really didnt know why Splitter withdrew??? What a surprise... His team had the option of putting a buyout clause in place. The Splitter camp entered the draft thinking they would be able to work something out with the team but the team didnt give them any breaks and refused to put in a buyout clause. As I have already said Splitter's work ethic is legendary in Spain. Over the past few years he has continually added muscle to his body and most scouts agree that he'll have absolutely no problem gaining the muscle needed to play in the NBA. Do you(someone who clearly has no knowledge on the prospect) wish to go on record having gone against the opinion of the experts?</div>
So, what makes you so sure Splitter will enter this year? I mean he dropped out the last two years. What if he can’t get a buyout this year? And I doubt Splitter will be able to put enough muscle necessary to play center in the NBA immediately.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Lampe was a really big small forward without a post up game as Chutney already explained. I really dont know much about the others. Sorry. 40% from downtown doesnt impress you? Does 50% impress you? I'm sorry about posting up the 40% from before I was wrong, he is actually shooting 50%. I do believe that is a higher percentage than Dirk Nowitzki shot when he played in Europe. Actually I'm glad you asked if he averaged 10 points because he averages 9.9 points per game in the Euroleague. And he does even better in the Italian league. Again please stop it with your misinformation. You dont know if he faces bad defenders or good defenders. And by the way there are a whole lot of bad defenders in the NBA so what difference does it make? Maybe if you actually watched him play or even just read up on him instead of just making ignorant statements you'll know why he's the next Dirk.</div>
The fact that he averages 50% from downtown doesn’t really impress me much. How many rebounds does he average? How many times does he get to the line? Does he create his own shot or does he just thrive off of penetration. I know you’re going to say something about Frye not creating his own shots, but he’s starting to do that more and more, especially down low. Not sure, but I think Nowitzki was averaging more points and field goal attempts, so his field goal percentage wasn’t as high. You can check on that if you want. Of course I know he’s going to face his share of bad defenders and good defenders in Euroleague. They’re bad defenders and good defenders everywhere. What difference does it make? Do you understand that a bad defender in the NBA could be a solid defender elsewhere? So, someone like Curry can go to the NBA and be an okay defender. I’ve seen Bargani play and I’ve read about him and I know he has good potential and just as much as Curry. But you’re saying that he’s a sure thing when he’s not.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I do believe Gay has been coming on strong lately so I'll be careful about calling him an underachiever. And what does being a star have to do with him being better than Curry. Curry is far from being a star in this league so who cares if Gay becomes a star or not. I'm going to ask you right now do you think Curry will be a better player than Morrison? I want you to make a stand on this issue right now. Keep in mind I will throw this answer in your face later on. As for Redick you do realize people were saying the same thing about Michael Redd right? Undersized, too slow, cant defend and all that. You can plainly see who was proved wrong.</div>
Here are a few quality posts by quality members regarding Rudy Gay:

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post"> If you want to draft Rudy Gay, you will be in for disappointment. He doesn't have the agressive mentality to be a superstar in the NBA. The Huskies play a very uptempo style of basketball, so a lot of the stats the players put up are inflated.</div>

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Schaddy:</div><div class="quote_post"> He's a guy with fantastic potential, but he's yet to put it all together for more than a half at a time. He's not ready for the NBA, and if he comes out now, I think he'll be a major bust.</div>

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">Gay has tools,just some skills and has not learned to use them,he does not have any special instincts,sense of timing,court awareness. Rudy is not a total slacker,but I'd rather doubt his game will ever equal his physical potential. And yes,Gay's stock has slipped. Mocks now don't have him top 5. A guy with "potential" has to have the high level effort and the learning curve. Just the raw physical tools and a few good moves means at the next level you level off as about average.</div>

I don’t know if Morrison will be better than Curry. Who am I to make such a strong statement with a player who hasn’t played an NBA game yet? How is a 6’6” shooting guard undersized? You’re not making any sense now. The main reason why he slipped so far was because he had a bad junior year.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So the Knicks would be a .500 team without Larry Brown???
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Please just stop! Is that why the Knicks dont put in an effort because their confused? Curry was brought in because Isiah Thomas is an idiot. He overrated Curry plain and simple. Who cares about the Bulls??? They have two lottery picks and tons of caproom next year. Their going to be just fine. The fact that the Knicks suck as much this year as they did last year shows exactly how much of a factor Curry has been. How long does Curry need to get acclimated into the system? I know he's not that bright but come on!</div>
I think so. When you’re coach is trashing you publicly to the media, has 30 different starting lineups around midseason, and changes rotations as quickly as the wind blows, do you think that has an effect on the progress of a team? That’s plain stupid. The inconsistency Brown brings to the table and the way he uses the media to degrade the players has caused inconsistency on and off the court. Instead of feeling like a team, they feel alienated from one another. What do you mean who cares about the Bulls? That’s a cop out. Address the situation. The Bulls are struggling because of the lack of Curry’s presence. The Bulls have a better future than us and are in a better situation than us. I’m not arguing that.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well at least you admit it. That's the first step you know, admitting you have a problem. You're an ignorant homer because you just make things up, refuse to listen to reason and argue with losing facts. No matter what kind of facts are presented you just stick to your guns. Everyone knows that. As far as you're concerned Isiah Thomas and the players can do no wrong. Larry Brown, who you treated like a Messiah during the summer, is the reason why the Knicks suck. You defend mediocre players to the death simply because they wear Knick uniforms. When Nazr Mohammed was with the Knicks you felt he should have been an All Star. When he was traded you thought he was a bum.

Blaming Larry Brown of all people for this lousy team is stupid. Comparing Bargnani to Frye was just plain ignorant. Period. The reason why noone else is talking about Splitter around here is because we dont have a pick so it doesnt matter. So all the scouts who watch Splitter are wrong and you who know next to nothing about him are right? Did I get that right?</div>
No, you’re ignorant for putting words in my mouth. Please tell me what I made up. In the summer I had no idea Brown would be doing what he’s doing. He said it himself I need to do a better job coaching. For you to say it has no affect on the team is completely ridiculous. I already said this isn’t a great team, but it is better than their record.

About Nazr Mohammed being an all-star I said:

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I heard this one on ESPN radio yesterday. Do you think Nazr Mohammed will be an all-star if he keeps on putting up those stats. I don't think so. They're are much more"exciting" and well known players in the league than him. Mohammed has been putting up all-star numbers but, his name isn't really known. I hope I'm wrong though.</div>
http://www.justbball.com/forums/showthread...t=nazr+all-star

About Nazr Mohammed being an all-star you said:

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I know I'm not 02civic...to be fair Big Z comes to mind as does Big Ben. But he is a better offensive player than Big Ben and a better defensive player and rebounder than Big Z. But other than those two there is noone else. Truth is he does deserve to be an All Star but he probably wont make it because he isnt as popular as those two guys. But really...who cares? I know it's nice and all but it isnt a big deal. Alot of players are on the All Star team who dont deserve it. It isnt so much as the best players in the league competing againt each other as much as the most popular. As long as he keeps on putting up those all star numbers for the New York Knicks I'll be happy.</div>

http://www.justbball.com/forums/showthread...t=nazr+all-star

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What is so wrong with Nazr being in the All Star game when so many other players who dont belong there make it? His numbers are certainly good enough. In terms of efficiency I believe only two centers in the league are better than him, Yao and Shaq. I dont really care for the All Star game but it's obvious that Nazr has a strong case to back up Shaq in Denver. Big Ben is offensively challenged, we all know that, and Big Z is a weak defender and isnt as good of a rebounder. So Nazr probably does "deserves the nod".</div>

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Let's see...Nazr is averaging less than three points of what Big Z is averaging with less time and shooting at a much better percentage. Nazr is more rebounds than Big Z with again less minutes. Big Z however is a better shot blocker(barely) and passer I'll give you that. But Big Z is a weak on ball defender. Nazr is clearly superior at playing on ball defense. So yes Nazr is better than Big Z.</div>

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for Big Ben, assuming he and Nazr play the same amount of minutes, he is averaging less than one rebound more than Nazr. Nazr is beating Ben Wallace handily in points per game while averaging a full eight minutes less than him. If they both played the same amount of minutes Nazr would be winning by a ridiculous margin. Nazr is also shooting at MUCH better percentage. In case you're all wondering what's so important about the shooting percentage I'll tell you. Better shooting percentage means less wasted posessions. So Nazr is getting his points and is being productive while doing so. More productive than both Ben Wallace and Z. However Ben is clearly a better shot blocker than Mohammed.</div>

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> All of this proves Nazr is an all around better center than Big Ben and just plain better than Big Z. Just to let you all know I'm looking right at the official stats right now. Popularity aside, Nazr deserves to go. Period. And the numbers(and numbers never lie)say so.</div>

http://www.justbball.com/forums/showthread...t=nazr+all-star

----------

I don’t remember calling Mohammed a bum. I do, however, remember calling him expendable considering we got two first round picks (one who happened to be David Lee) for him. Also, after his injury he was never the same player since the beginning of the season. I’ll be the first to admit I’ve said many bias things over the years, but you, as the quotes show, have done so, too.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I just apologized and said I was wrong about Bargnani shooting 40%. But I never said anything about him not averaging 10 points per game. More of your imaginary stats I suppose.</div>
Doesn’t really matter. I don’t find 9.9 points a game impressive.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So if you knew the pick wasnt going to be protected would you have still done the trade?</div>
No, I wouldn’t make the trade as I said for the 1000th time.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Do yourself a favor. Just read up about him and you'll know why he'll be a better player than Curry. You overrate Curry plain and simple. Funny thing is if Curry were to get traded tomorrow you'd say he was overrated as well.</div>
I’ve read about all the major prospects in the 2006 draft and especially the 2006. You don’t know the kind of research and knowledge I have about the draft. I’m not overrating Curry. Where in this thread have I overrated him? In fact, I’ve been very critical of him this season.

Let me re-clarify myself.

About Larry Brown: He hasn’t coached this team well and said it on many occasions. Without all the distractions and confusion, I think the Knicks could be around .500. I don’t think that’s farfetched to think.

Curry Trade: I didn’t like the trade because our pick wasn’t protected. If it was protected, like I thought it was in the beginning, I would be in favor of it.

The 2006 Draft: It’s a well-known fact this draft isn’t going to be great. It has a few guys with some good upsides in the beginning, but it greatly declines towards the late first round and second round.

Prospects: I know some of the players in this years draft can be good, but you’re speaking so definitively of them like they’re established superstars in the NBA.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, next time. It’s hard arguing all of your points like that.</div>

Thanks. It's okay if you break it up into paragraphs but sometimes you just respond to one or two sentences and it's just...
banghead.gif


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Don’t blame the Knicks becoming worse on Kurt Thomas that’s asinine. Kurt Thomas was a very good defender, but his defense didn’t have a significant effect on our team’s defense. When he was here we gave up 100 points and when he left we now give up 101 points. Is another sacrificed point such a big difference? If the Knicks suck on defense, why is our best defender on the bench? Don’t give me they’re better players ahead of him. Ariza isn’t good on offense, but neither is Rose, Richardson, or James. Taylor and Lee were both playing significant minutes together during the win streak, so why can’t they play together again? And what does the low post presence matter anyway? What matters is the Knicks play better with Lee on the floor then they do with Taylor. I also notice you said the Knicks don’t rebound. Did you have any idea they’re 8th in the league in rebounds per game? More of YOUR imaginary stats I suppose. Don’t give me the teams go in a tailspin because he leaves when Brown senses losing he leaves. I like Brown to, but you really have to hop off of him. By his own admission:
<font size="2">“It starts with me, I've got to do better," Brown said.</font>
<font size="2">A person familiar with the situation said the Knicks players are confused by Brown's changing rotations and his critiques to the media. Consequently, the person said, the players haven't bonded off the court and there's no on-court chemistry either.</font>

That has an effect on a team. 30 starting lineups in 48 games with numerous rotation changes has an effect on a team. You expect Brown’s trashing to the media is going to help the team? The players have said they don’t appreciate Brown doing that and it’s just further alienating the team. If you gave this team a regular coach with a consistent starting lineup and rotation I think this team can be decent.</div>

Kurt Thomas leaving makes more sense for the Knicks worse defense than Larry Brown's rotations. What does that have to do with defense??? You dont need a consistent starting line up to put in the effort! You just dont! Now if you said the Knicks are turnover prone and dont have a good flow to their offense because of the constant tinkering then maybe I would agree with you. But even then it's not that big of a difference. Saying that the Knicks would be a .500 team right now if Larry Brown wasnt shifting the rotation around is simply ludicrous. As for Larry Brown criticizing the team, there would be no criticizm if the team would at the very least compete. Larry Brown can say all he wants about how he needs to do better but everyone knows this is beyond even Larry Brown's ability to fix. It is a well documented fact that his teams do badly after he leaves. If you dont know that much...what can I say? I dont recall saying the Knicks dont rebound in this thread but tell me how they fare in the defensive rebounding category when their not playing in garbage time that is.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, please do.</div>

Remind me later. I'm honestly too tired to look now maybe over the weekend.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Shelden Williams and Tiago Splitter are two different cases. Shelden Williams is very strong physically and has the experience of playing four years under the best coach in college basketball under one of the best, if not THE best basketball program in the nation in Duke. Can you really compare him to Splitter who’s playing overseas against many undrafted NBA players? Oh, yeah. Euroleague is better than NCAA Basketball, right?</div>

I knew this would come up again. I'm going to keep this short. There are several ways to look at how the NCAA compares to Euroleague action. Here's one way: Tiago Splitter is a role player in the Euroleague. Shelden Williams is one of the best big men in the NCAA right now. Ten out of ten scouts will tell you Tiago Splitter is easily the better player. So a role player in the Euroleague is better than one of the top NCAA players. Here's another way of looking at it: If you took the best NCAA team and have them play in the NBA they wouldnt even be competitive against any NBA team! Hell you could probably bring together an All Star team of NCAA players and they would still lose. Meanwhile a few months ago a Euroleague team beat an NBA team. Here's another way of looking at it: Let's just say you're right and the average Euroleague player is nothing more than an NCAA player who couldnt cut it in the NBA. The average NCAA player has no chance of making it to the NBA or of playing in Europe. I'll put it one more way for you: Predrag Drobnjak just last year was in the NBA. There were quite a few teams interested in acquiring his services but he decided to go to go play in Europe. The average NBA player would dominate in the NCAA. Drobnjak is currently rotting on the bench in Europe behind none other than Tiago Splitter. As is clearly obvious from the way Tiago Splitter plays(great fundamentals, good passer, great foot work, great defense, no mistakes, high basketball IQ) it's obvious he's as well coached as ANYprospect in this draft. And about what shapecity said, when was this game and who was he matched up against in the clip?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">When Camby first got into the league he was abused by centers and he has more muscle than Splitter. Same thing goes for Bosh. That’s why he’s not playing center anymore. You’re too obsessed with that DraftExpress website. Those player comparison things are really just an afterthought. You put too much on them. They also said Julius Hodge’s best case scenario was Penny Hardaway and his worst case scenario was Marquis Daniels. Also that DraftExpress website says Bargani has absolutely no post up game. Who should I believe you or the scouts?</div>

First of all Draftexpress isnt my only source. It's just my main source. If you just use your computer and research on him you'll see most people say he's a definite center. Second of all Draftexpress is the premier source for information on draft prospects. What does Hodge have to do with anything? And how is Daniels doing? That profile on Bargnani outdated. And Nowitzki didnt have a real post up game in Europe either.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">So, what makes you so sure Splitter will enter this year? I mean he dropped out the last two years. What if he can’t get a buyout this year? And I doubt Splitter will be able to put enough muscle necessary to play center in the NBA immediately.</div>

Whoever said anything about Splitter playing center immediately? I simply said he was going to end up being the better player down the road. Splitter has just said he is going to complete his contract with his team before he comes over to the NBA. So he might stay in because it wont make a difference where he ends up since he'll have no buyout problem or he might withdraw because his stock is low(because of his statement)and he wants to get as drafted as high as possible. So by the time he comes over he'll have added enough muscle to be strong enough to play center in the NBA.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">The fact that he averages 50% from downtown doesn’t really impress me much. How many rebounds does he average? How many times does he get to the line? Does he create his own shot or does he just thrive off of penetration. I know you’re going to say something about Frye not creating his own shots, but he’s starting to do that more and more, especially down low. Not sure, but I think Nowitzki was averaging more points and field goal attempts, so his field goal percentage wasn’t as high. You can check on that if you want. Of course I know he’s going to face his share of bad defenders and good defenders in Euroleague. They’re bad defenders and good defenders everywhere. What difference does it make? Do you understand that a bad defender in the NBA could be a solid defender elsewhere? So, someone like Curry can go to the NBA and be an okay defender. I’ve seen Bargani play and I’ve read about him and I know he has good potential and just as much as Curry. But you’re saying that he’s a sure thing when he’s not.</div>

So someone who shoots 50% from downtown doesnt impress you?! Wow. You must be tough to impress. Anyway he averages 3 rebounds per game in 19 minutes. It should be kept in mind that he sometimes plays small foward. He most certainly creates his own shot. Half court defense set up and everything. He likes to take his man off the dribble and go straight to the basket and finish with a dunk or a lay up although he does occasionally pull up for the jumper when he meets heavy resistance near the basket. If his man sags off of him he just shoots the jumper. Nowitzki if I remember correctly played against significantly weaker competition as well so I think it evens out. Curry just might be a worse defender in Europe than he is now considering the skill level of the average big man there. Nothing is a sure thing in draft prospects, life or anything else. But if he stays in Europe and comes over when he is ready he will almost certainly be better than Curry. No doubt about it. By the way if you've seen him play and read about him than why are you asking if he can create his own shot? And why are you comparing him to Frye?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Here are a few quality posts by quality members regarding Rudy Gay:</div>

I read the posts and again I say I dont care if Gay becomes a star or not. I said he will be better than Curry. He doesnt have to be a star to be better than Curry. And furthermore were these statements made before or after his recent stretch of good games?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I don’t know if Morrison will be better than Curry. Who am I to make such a strong statement with a player who hasn’t played an NBA game yet? How is a 6’6” shooting guard undersized? You’re not making any sense now. The main reason why he slipped so far was because he had a bad junior year.</div>

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What's this?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I think so. When you’re coach is trashing you publicly to the media, has 30 different starting lineups around midseason, and changes rotations as quickly as the wind blows, do you think that has an effect on the progress of a team? That’s plain stupid. The inconsistency Brown brings to the table and the way he uses the media to degrade the players has caused inconsistency on and off the court. Instead of feeling like a team, they feel alienated from one another. What do you mean who cares about the Bulls? That’s a cop out. Address the situation. The Bulls are struggling because of the lack of Curry’s presence. The Bulls have a better future than us and are in a better situation than us. I’m not arguing that.</div>

I just said that I do think it would affect certain aspects of a team. But you're just exaggerating the effect. The team was bad last year and it's bad this year. It's not like we were a .500 team last year so saying a consistent rotation would have had us at .500 now is ridiculous. Especially considering the reason why the Knicks record is so bad is because of their effort level and defense which shouldnt be affected by the rotation. I didnt want to get into the Bulls because we have enough things to argue about. It is a fact that when a team has a breakout year they do worse the following year. That is probably what happened to the Bulls. This year their problem has been their defense(they led the league in defensive field goal% I believe)and we both know that Curry doesnt make a difference in that area of basketball. Tyson Chandler up until a few games ago has been playing truly atrocious basketball. They probably miss Antonio Davis more than they miss Curry.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">No, you’re ignorant for putting words in my mouth. Please tell me what I made up. In the summer I had no idea Brown would be doing what he’s doing. He said it himself I need to do a better job coaching. For you to say it has no affect on the team is completely ridiculous. I already said this isn’t a great team, but it is better than their record.</div>

You made up what you said about Frye and Bosh being stronger than Splitter. You dont know that. You dont have any real sources. You just made it up. You also said Bargnani was less polished than Frye which is a blatant perversion of the truth. You also made up what you said about Bargnani not averaging more than 10 points per game. I'll ask you again: Who has to fail with this team before you admit the team is the problem? Phil Jackson? Scott Skiles? Nate McMillan? Mike D'Antoni? Jerry Sloan?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">About Nazr Mohammed being an all-star I said:

http://www.justbball.com/forums/showthread...t=nazr+all-star
About Nazr Mohammed being an all-star you said:
http://www.justbball.com/forums/showthread...t=nazr+all-star
http://www.justbball.com/forums/showthread...t=nazr+all-star
----------
I don’t remember calling Mohammed a bum. I do, however, remember calling him expendable considering we got two first round picks (one who happened to be David Lee) for him. Also, after his injury he was never the same player since the beginning of the season. I’ll be the first to admit I’ve said many bias things over the years, but you, as the quotes show, have done so, too.</div>

I remember what I said. I said he deserved to be an All Star in the East. I was using the stats to make my case and those are what the numbers said. They said he should go to the All Star game...with that being said I plea to temporary insanity. I was annoyed at all the other fans coming to the board and I fell victim to a serious case of homerism...ok fine you caught me red handed but I'm not nearly as bias as you are and I didnt call Nazr expendable after he was traded either. Now that I just admitted you caught me can you please unbolden what I said in my posts...please!

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Doesn’t really matter. I don’t find 9.9 points a game impressive.</div>

Well now he's averaging 10.6 points per game in 19 minutes per game. Good enough for you?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">No, I wouldn’t make the trade as I said for the 1000th time.</div>

You didnt say that a thousand times. There you go just making stuff up again...
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<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I’ve read about all the major prospects in the 2006 draft and especially the 2006. You don’t know the kind of research and knowledge I have about the draft. I’m not overrating Curry. Where in this thread have I overrated him? In fact, I’ve been very critical of him this season.</div>

Come on! You obviously havent read about all the major prospects. You'd know that Tiago Splitter will be able to play center in the NBA. You'd know he has a midrange jumper. You wouldnt be comparing Bargnani to Frye and you wouldnt ask what makes him so different from all the other players who were compared to Dirk.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Let me re-clarify myself.

About Larry Brown: He hasn’t coached this team well and said it on many occasions. Without all the distractions and confusion, I think the Knicks could be around .500. I don’t think that’s farfetched to think.

Curry Trade: I didn’t like the trade because our pick wasn’t protected. If it was protected, like I thought it was in the beginning, I would be in favor of it.

The 2006 Draft: It’s a well-known fact this draft isn’t going to be great. It has a few guys with some good upsides in the beginning, but it greatly declines towards the late first round and second round.

Prospects: I know some of the players in this years draft can be good, but you’re speaking so definitively of them like they’re established superstars in the NBA.</div>

Larry Brown: Who has to fail with this team before you admit the problem is the team?

Curry Trade: Ok

2006 draft: It's an alright draft. It's not great but it's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. The first round is good at first but declines in quality late in the round and the second round is your typical second round.

Prospects: I'm not saying their going to be stars. I'm saying that they'll likely be better than Curry.

Anyway I love debating with you MrJ. Granted you let your homerism get out of control sometimes but there's noone else on this entire site that I can make these monster posts with. We've gone from Splitter to Larry Brown's coaching to Euroleague versus NCAA to the Bulls and ended with Nazr Mohammed. Shall we discuss global warming next? Or whether or not Bush is breaking any laws when he spys on people without obtaining a warrant?


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
 
I'm kind of tired, but I'll be brief and we'll end it here. Maybe the Knicks wouldn't be at .500, but I'm sure they will be in a better position then they would be had all of those different starting lineups. I think they would still be in a position where grabbing the 8th seed wouldn't be out of reach. Granted, it would mean four blowout losses in the postseason against the Pistons, but it's better than nothing. My point is, although the Knicks aren't a great team, they're better than what their record indicates because of Brown's early season tinkering.

Tiago Splitter is alright and I've seen him play before and while I think he can be solid in the league and better than Curry, I just think it will be better off waiting to see how they play in the NBA. Same goes for Bargani. I know he has potential and has been the closest thing to Dirk since Dirk, but the only way I'll be sold on him is when I see him in the NBA. With that said, I would prefer him along with my other second rounders and my chance at Greg Oden over Curry. J.J. Reddick has done well in college, but there are plenty of factors surrounding his game such as how he will deal with his lack of NBA-level quickness/athleticism and his height. Will he last in the league? I think so, but I think Curry who, despite his annoying foul troubles and rebounding/defending deficiencies, can still produce about 15 points and 6.5 rebounds at the same age as Reddick.

Because we didn't protect our pick is why I don't like the Curry trade. I actually made a rant regarding my displeasure for the Curry trade. I'm just saying while the prospects can be better than Curry, they're only a few that you know will be immediate contributors for years to come. Yes, sometimes I know I can say some real bias things, but that's all a part of growing up with the Knicks, I guess. Anyway, we'll see how everything turns out. So, for now, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I know we can agree on this though:


Anyway, I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
yay.gif
 
yep, the knicks are finished long time ago, they gonna need a lot of new players.
 
I don't know what Larry Brown was thinking when he wanted to leave Detroit. Bad move on his part. The Knicks have rebuild this franchise, they always find a way to screw it up.
 
I make my own sigs and i dont use photoshop, and I'm only 14.
 
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