Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?

[MARIS61]

A lot worse. I went from $30,000 of equity in my house to 40% upside down. Now, at some point in time I'll give it back and file bankruptcy.

If you haven't had to do it yet, it would be foolish to do it now. Prices have pretty much stabilized except in places no human would want to live, and are already on the way back up in nice places. Bend is already experiencing bidding wars on nice homes again.

Unless Romney gets elected which seems doubtful, the housing markets are probably the best investment in America right now, even if you're currently in it for more than it's worth. With China buying up everything on the technology/commercial/industrial end and Japan and Canada buying up subdivisions right and left supply is being depleted at the fastest rate in history. By the time the general public is let in on it things will be so tight we'll have another boom going.

Or maybe you live in Detroit?

Besides since Bush gutted the personal bankruptcy protections, unless you can convert all your assets into a business first and do a business bankruptcy, going BK won't save you a dime. You'd be better off paying your debts like a man, even if you have to dip into your 401k a little.

 

[MARIS61]

That's a good question.

The answer is that I don't really know. How much of the housing crisis and lack of help for people like me is subject to debate. To be sure, some is. The stock market is pretty much the same- a good case could be made either way. As to my job, we shall see. If I lose it due to Obamacare, then I think it fair to lay the blame with the prez.

But things like this are all subjective as to how much may be the result of left or right politics and programs- if at all. And since we have so many sheep here who lack the mental & intellectual capability to look at any issue and not see it in glowing terms of their political agendas, it's hardly worth starting down that trail. I mean, I could write the canned answers from both the lefty & righty sheep here and both would agree.

You're a pretty smart guy, and it seems you're in a pretty boring job anyway. Ever think about switching careers? I've worked in 7 or completely different fields throughout my life. Some of the early changes were by necessity but the last 5 or 6 were due to boredom or to pursue things I had a personal curiosity about, challenges I made to myself to grow and continue to learn. Can't say I regretted any of them and the combined resume enables me to try just about anything I want to at this point. The wealth of knowledge, friends, and experiences is something I'd never trade for 40 years of "security" at the same job.

 

[barfo]

Prices have pretty much stabilized except in places no human would want to live

Unfortunately, BP lives in Vancouver.

barfo

 

[Nikolokolus]

Am I better off? Yeah sure, finishing grad school and working in a field that I completely love is awesome, I'll never be rich doing what I do, but I'll be goddamned if I could be any happier in a job.

Am I financially set on easy street? (No) and are there systemic problems in our government and economy that I worry about long-term (regardless of which assholes in either party are the flavor of the month)? You bet your ass -- and it's pretty much got fuck all to do with the sitting president.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

and it's pretty much got fuck all to do with the sitting president.

sad but true, the guys at the top dont really matter anymore

 

[MARIS61]

Unfortunately, BP lives in Vancouver.

barfo

Just showed one of my listings to a Realtor from Damascus yesterday (shopping for a vacation home on the river for herself). She said Portland has no inventory to speak of and her last 3 sales have been multiple offer situations where they ended up selling for higher than the listing price. Yesterday's Bend Bulletin had an article quoting economists as expecting a complete (local) economic turnaround by late 2013 with an expected influx of young families moving here and a rebounding job market.

 

[jlprk]

Well if Assad is moving there you may have civil war conditions soon. But it'll just be for vacations, no worry.

 

[donkiez]

I am much better off and a lot of it is thanks to Obama. I bought a house in 2006 and another in 2008, I have a good job and could afford both at the time. Looking back I was young, naive and cought up in the houseing bubble which just so happend to be at a time in which I was ready to purchase my first house in life. I felt rushed and thought if I dont get something now I will never be able to afford anything, when I should have been thinking that if I cant afford something then most people can't either. After the bottom fell out of the housing market I did what I could but I was stuck in some bad loans and was grossly underwater, I tried to make the best of it but I couldnt even refinance to a non interest only one one or non ARM on the other, or anything with a reasonable interest rate because of my negative equity. After a bad tenant a lot of idle rental time and big repair bills on my rental I was about to give up. The house saver programs put in place have allowed me to short sell my rental (pending at the moment) and modify my current house. My modification was nothing magic and didn't abuse the system it just lowered my interest rate to a appropriate % and changed it from interest only. I had to fight tooth and nail with the mortgage company but some of the recent laws put in effect helped push mine though. I am still underwater on my primary house but I can afford it and I love my place so I am staying. This admistrations plans have help me save my credit, my house, and kept me from bankrupcy. My over all net worth is still not great but there is at least light at the end of the tunnel. My retirment plan is more than it was after the crash but less than it should be, I essentially lost 3 years of retirment savings but again things are reasonably back up and I am more educated and prepared for future issues.

 

[jlprk]

Even if some numbers are worse, they would be even worse had we continued with Republican policies. Compare the present to the horrible scenario we were looking at 4 years ago, the one that free enterprise critics say that we should have allowed to fulfill itself.

http://www.alternet.org/hot-news-views/are-we-better-10-headlines-four-years-ago

 

[Denny Crane]

http://thehill.com/conventions-2012...hill-poll-voters-think-second-term-undeserved

A majority of voters believe the country is worse off today than it was four years ago and that President Obama does not deserve reelection, according to a new poll for The Hill.

Fifty-two percent of likely voters say the nation is in “worse condition” now than in September 2008, while 54 percent say Obama does not deserve reelection based solely on his job performance.

nly 31 percent of voters believe the nation is in “better condition,” while 15 percent say it is “about the same,” the poll found. Just 40 percent of voters said Obama deserves reelection.
The results highlight the depth of voter dissatisfaction confronting Obama as he makes his case for a second term at this week’s Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, N.C.

They also strongly suggest Democrats need to convince voters the election should be a choice between Obama and Republican nominee Mitt Romney, rather than a referendum on the president.

Obama’s biggest problem remains voter unhappiness with his handling of the economy.

...

The Hill’s poll was conducted Sept. 2 among 1,000 likely voters by Pulse Opinion Research. It has a 3 percentage point margin of error.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

im doing better every year, but that is only because i am a cutthroat take no prisoners free market union busting beast

You go, boi!

 

[Eastoff]

sad but true, the guys at the top dont really matter anymore

Oh? Wait until february 2013 when the tax cuts are going to expire, and let me know if politicians matter to your pocket. ;]

 

[3RA1N1AC]

and let me know

will do

 

[mook]

I'm definitely better off. My wife's business is booming, and my 401k has mostly recovered. I just refinanced at 3.5% (used to be 5.25%) so my mortgage payment is dropping a couple hundred bucks a month. One kid is out of a daycare and in first grade, so that saves me $500/mo. I ditched Directv and my landline (went with Ooma) and now save another $180/mo. Everything is coming up Milhouse.

That said, both of my brothers and my dad are underemployed. But they all seem somewhat optimistic.

Interestingly, most of what makes me "better off" has little to do with the money, though. I have a great family and good friends, and they all just seem to get more interesting the older I get.

The significant material improvements in my life aren't that expensive. Websites like Reddit and Facebook are enriching my life for free (when they didn't exist to me 4 years ago). Podcasts and GPS mapping and camera and browsing on my smartphone all happen for much less than a thousand bucks a year. My internet is faster, my car has more features for less money, programs like Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad are vastly superior to anything back then....

Personally, in the past 4 years I lost 80lbs and can run 3 miles straight. I hiked 20 miles last weekend over brutal country and am not sore. My six year old told me yesterday, "Huh, Dad, you aren't fat now." Not bad for a 39 year old.

Did Obama make a huge difference? Obviously not on the tech or entertainment or my personal changes. On the economy? I don't know. Given where I am and where the country is right now, I find it hard to say that voting for him 4 years ago was a big mistake.

 

[jlprk]

You said it well--"Are you better off" is a stupid way to determine whether to vote for an incumbent politician. He controls very little of whether we're better off.

Another stupid line that Reagan started was to ask after a debate, "Who won?" Before him, the media never thought that way. The purpose of a debate was to educate us in the issues, not to win as if it's a sport.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I am doing a little worse. Wage freezes, 401k dipped a lot, my home value is lower, etc. things like that.

 

[mook]

Another stupid line that Reagan started was to ask after a debate, "Who won?" Before him, the media never thought that way. The purpose of a debate was to educate us in the issues, not to win as if it's a sport.

The debates are completely meaningless at this point. It's just a series of soundbites firing back and forth without much followup. Politicians answer whatever the hell question they make up in their mind without even addressing the questioner.

It's basically two stump speeches occasionally interrupting each other.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Unfortunately, BP lives in Vancouver.

barfo

For the record, I'm only there because I had to be at one point in time due to my wife's child custody issues. But I'm a native born Oregonian and true to my creed I hate Californians.

 

[Denny Crane]

The debates are completely meaningless at this point. It's just a series of soundbites firing back and forth without much followup. Politicians answer whatever the hell question they make up in their mind without even addressing the questioner.

It's basically two stump speeches occasionally interrupting each other.

Without a media filter, though. The candidates do get to get their messages out directly to the audience.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

The debates are completely meaningless at this point. It's just a series of soundbites firing back and forth without much followup. Politicians answer whatever the hell question they make up in their mind without even addressing the questioner.

It's basically two stump speeches occasionally interrupting each other.

This is pretty much true. For some people, whether or not they're doing "better" or not is really a matter of timing or luck.

To be sure, some things should always improve over a 4 year time span, ie, wages raising (as a national average), unemployment improving or if already low staying stable, stable rate of inflation, houses raising in value, increase in 401K/savings, lowering of personal debt... and again, this should be taken as a national average. Then there's national scale things like is the national debt higher. If so, did it raise more, percentage wise, than the previous 4 years. Are we sticking to a balanced budget? If not, how much over and how does that relate to the prior 4 year average, is college more expensive, and if so did it raise up more than the prior 4 years... Those things are worth comparing.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

A little better, but not because of Obama.

 

[mook]

Without a media filter, though. The candidates do get to get their messages out directly to the audience.

I guess. Although if you want to hear completely unfiltered reports about what Romney or Obama thinks about something, there are a million youtube videos of speeches out there.

This Wikipedia entry tells the story as it really is with the current "debate" system:

Control of the presidential debates has been a ground of struggle for more than two decades. The role was filled by the nonpartisan League of Women Voters (LWV) civic organization in 1976, 1980 and 1984. In 1987, the LWV withdrew from debate sponsorship, in protest of the major party candidates attempting to dictate nearly every aspect of how the debates were conducted. On October 2, 1988, the LWV's 14 trustees voted unanimously to pull out of the debates, and on October 3 they issued a dramatic press release:
"The League of Women Voters is withdrawing sponsorship of the presidential debates...because the demands of the two campaign organizations would perpetrate a fraud on the American voter. It has become clear to us that the candidates' organizations aim to add debates to their list of campaign-trail charades devoid of substance, spontaneity and answers to tough questions. The League has no intention of becoming an accessory to the hoodwinking of the American public."
The same year the two major political parties assumed control of organizing presidential debates through the Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD). The commission has been headed since its inception by former chairs of the Democratic National Committee and Republican National Committee.
Some have criticized the exclusion of third party and independent candidates as well as the parallel interview format as a minimum of getting 15% in opinion polls is required to be invited. In 2004, the Citizens' Debate Commission (CDC) was formed with the stated mission of returning control of the debates to an independent nonpartisan body rather than a bipartisan body. Nevertheless, the CPD retained control of the debates that year and in 2008.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_debates

 

[Denny Crane]

The thing about the debates is that no amount of money can drown out what the candidate wants to say directly to the viewers. YouTube is fine, but not necessarily so timely or as big an audience. The debates also come at a time when a lot of people get interested in the race.

 

[huevonkiller]

Both candidates are nearly the same, sorry. Both are worthless Keynesians to me.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Both candidates are nearly the same, sorry. Both are worthless Keynesians to me.

I believe you meant to say Kenyan's, and only Obama is one.

 

[barfo]

I think the results of this poll are pretty interesting. All the gloom and doom that one sees on this board doesn't seem to be reflected in the survey. If you believe the results, most people here are doing pretty well - 80% of respondents are better off than they were.

Should we believe the results? Obviously this is a very non-scientific poll.

Maybe people who aren't better off were too depressed to answer the poll?
Maybe S2 posters are much better off than the average man on the street?
Maybe the poll was rigged by the same evildoers that destroyed WTC7 and stole the ENORMOUS AMOUNT of gold beneath?

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Maybe S2 posters are much better off than the average man on the street?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

i blame the secret jew alien reptile illuminati

 

[MickZagger]

Denny Crane, PapaG, MaxieP, Masbee and Shooter are all worse off than 4 years ago.

Its explains one man's anger.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

well, its a redistribution of wealth!
:MARIS61: