Arguments For and Against (starting SF & PF)

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Power forward:
Swanigan for: He's fresh as the driven snow and doesn't have the stink of failed expectations (yet).

Swanigan against: Who does he guard?

Small forward:
Turner for: he can defend a little, handle the ball a little and create a little for others.

Turner against: he can't shoot.

What will really happen: Terry plays Aminu at the 4 and Harkless at the 3.

Dark horse: Ed Davis or maybe Vonleh.
 
Harkless at SF. Vonleh was playing pretty good next to nurk towards the end of the season. If we truly have a NIP Meyers Leonard, he'd be a canidate too since he can hit the 3.
 
Seems like Swanigan love is out of porportion. I watched him in the summer league, and don't get what the fuss is about. He looked solid, like he may be a decent rotational player in the league, but people are acting like he set the world on fire. I've seen nba journeymen look much better in summer league.
 
Sinobas said:
Seems like Swanigan love is out of porportion. I watched him in the summer league, and don't get what the fuss is about. He looked solid, like he may be a decent rotational player in the league, but people are acting like he set the world on fire. I've seen nba journeymen look much better in summer league.
Click to expand...

There were literally three other rookies in history that put up his stat lines, and two of them are Blake Griffin and Kevin Love (third is speights, a good player in his own right.)

But hey everyone is entitled to their opinion. We'll see what happens.
 
Here's the lowdown:
If you have 2 great scorers on your team, you just need to surround them by... defenders, rebounders, and shooters.

If you look at Defense x Rebounding x Shooting, I think Harkless is better than ET who is better than Aminu.
Similarly, by this metric...
Collins > Biggie ~= Davis > Vonleh > Leonard.

But Collins isn't ready. Hopefully he'll be ready by year's end, but for now, it's Biggie.
 
Scalma said:
There were literally three other rookies in history that put up his stat lines, and two of them are Blake Griffin and Kevin Love (third is speights, a good player in his own right.)

But hey everyone is entitled to their opinion. We'll see what happens.
Click to expand...
Huh? 16 and 10, shooting under 44% from the field. Not that impressive for summer league.

He wasn't even the leading rebounder in Vegas league. Compare him to NBA G Leaguer Matt Costello, who averaged 11 and 12 with 60% shooting.
 
Sinobas said:
Huh? 16 and 10, shooting under 44% from the field. Not that impressive for summer league.

He wasn't even the leading rebounder in Vegas league. Compare him to NBA G Leaguer Matt Costello, who averaged 11 and 12 with 60% shooting.
Click to expand...

Huh what you mean huh? What part was hard to understand for you? Four rookies averaged double doubles in the history of summer league. Swanigan was one. How is that not impressive?
 
Scalma said:
Huh what you mean huh? What part was hard to understand for you? Four rookies averaged double doubles in the history of summer league. Swanigan was one. How is that not impressive?
Click to expand...
I just gave you an example of a no-namer from this year that averaged a double double. It's not that big of a deal to do in summer league over the course of a few games. It's not like there's some magical thing about averaging 10 rebounds just because we happen to have a base 10 counting system.
 
Scalma said:
Huh what you mean huh? What part was hard to understand for you? Four rookies averaged double doubles in the history of summer league. Swanigan was one. How is that not impressive?
Click to expand...
Not rookies. 1st round rookies. Some second rounders and undrafted guys have done it too
 
Harkless and Swanigan. I think ET sees most of his time at the 2 behind CJ...with Aminu spelling Hark at the 3. Stotts has already said aminu will be more 3 this year. Hell Stotts may start Davis at the 4.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Here's the lowdown:
If you have 2 great scorers on your team, you just need to surround them by... defenders, rebounders, and shooters.

If you look at Defense x Rebounding x Shooting, I think Harkless is better than ET who is better than Aminu.
Similarly, by this metric...
Collins > Biggie ~= Davis > Vonleh > Leonard.
Click to expand...

I think it is close. Harkless has ok but not great rebounding numbers for a SF. I think ET can be equally as "OK". I also think he is as good of a defender. The shooting is where it gets tougher. Yes Moe is a better 3 pt shooter, but ET has a better mid range shot. And with Nurk being such a good outlet passer, wouldn't it be nice to have ET as a 3rd ball handler with Dame and CJ on the wing?

I admit I am still debating who should start at SF. I see your point and others. But I can't get past the fact I really want 3 ball handlers in there to start and finish games. And for those who say Swanigan is not ready now...I agree. But if he started would he be more ready by the end of the season? I would rather have him get experience with the starters than the 2nd unit. Unless the other team has a good spread 4. Then let aninu start.
 
I kind of like Aminu at 3 and Swanigan at 4. I just feel like we need to start the game with our best defender if we are going to roll out a rookie at PF.

Harkless can be the primary bench scorer while Turner handles the ball more in that second unit. Ed Davis is the primary backup 4/5. That's your 8 man rotation, and you sprinkle in the other guys depending on matchups and injuries.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I think it is close. Harkless has ok but not great rebounding numbers for a SF. I think ET can be equally as "OK". I also think he is as good of a defender. The shooting is where it gets tougher. Yes Moe is a better 3 pt shooter, but ET has a better mid range shot. And with Nurk being such a good outlet passer, wouldn't it be nice to have ET as a 3rd ball handler with Dame and CJ on the wing?

I admit I am still debating who should start at SF. I see your point and others. But I can't get past the fact I really want 3 ball handlers in there to start and finish games. And for those who say Swanigan is not ready now...I agree. But if he started would he be more ready by the end of the season? I would rather have him get experience with the starters than the 2nd unit. Unless the other team has a good spread 4. Then let aninu start.
Click to expand...

Stotts has said that we're going to see more Nurk in the post! This alleviates the need for "another ballhandler" (especially at the expense of perimeter shooting). and rewards you for having another finisher/3 point shooter, which is what Harkless is.

Swanigan is absolutely ready now. His game is based on effort, and historically these types of players can meld nicely into a team even if they barely know the plays. Is he the best option, though? Probably, but there are a lot of options.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Not rookies. 1st round rookies. Some second rounders and undrafted guys have done it too
Click to expand...
Do you think filtering out 2nd rounders, undrafted guys, and guys who are at the level that their teams assign them to play in summer league somehow enhances your argument, or improves the predictive power of the statistical correlation? It's totally absurd.

Here are some more that have averaged a magical "double double" Alan Williams, Fransico Elson, Thomas Robinson, Elton Brown. And many of these young stars were very close, Noah Vonleh, Chuck Diallo, James Singleton.

You guys are acting like, "obviously Swaningan is going to be a star because he averaged a double double in summer league. It's completly ridiculous.
 
Sinobas said:
Do you think filtering out 2nd rounders, undrafted guys, and guys who are at the level that their teams assign them to play in summer league somehow enhances your argument, or improves the predictive power of the statistical correlation? It's totally absurd.

Here are some more that have averaged a magical "double double" Alan Williams, Fransico Elson, Thomas Robinson, Elton Brown. And many of these young stars were very close, Noah Vonleh, Chuck Diallo, James Singleton.

You guys are acting like, "obviously Swaningan is going to be a star because he averaged a double double in summer league. It's completly ridiculous.
Click to expand...

So is that leap you made there, Neil.
 
Sinobas said:
Do you think filtering out 2nd rounders, undrafted guys, and guys who are at the level that their teams assign them to play in summer league somehow enhances your argument, or improves the predictive power of the statistical correlation? It's totally absurd.

Here are some more that have averaged a magical "double double" Alan Williams, Fransico Elson, Thomas Robinson, Elton Brown. And many of these young stars were very close, Noah Vonleh, Chuck Diallo, James Singleton.

You guys are acting like, "obviously Swaningan is going to be a star because he averaged a double double in summer league. It's completly ridiculous.
Click to expand...
It wasn't my argument, dude. I was actually providing that information to support your side.
 
I have not been paying attention so I am not sure how many have said Swanigan will be a star. I know I don't at this point.

But this thread is about who should start next to Nurk since Noah is injured. And I think depending on how he does in preseason he has to be considered based on the fact that he can potentially shoot and rebound better than the other options we have.

No doubt covering the perimeter will be an issue and Aminu is the only one right now at that position who really can. Davis is our best option at backup center (for now) so I think it just comes down to Swanigan or Aminu at PF....until Noah is ready. It will probably be Aminu but it certainly would be nice if someone else turned out to be better.....
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I have not been paying attention so I am not sure how many have said Swanigan will be a star. I know I don't at this point.

But this thread is about who should start next to Nurk since Noah is injured. And I think depending on how he does in preseason he has to be considered based on the fact that he can potentially shoot and rebound better than the other options we have.

No doubt covering the perimeter will be an issue and Aminu is the only one right now at that position who really can. Davis is our best option at backup center (for now) so I think it just comes down to Swanigan or Aminu at PF....until Noah is ready. It will probably be Aminu but it certainly would be nice if someone else turned out to be better.....
Click to expand...

I agree. It's likely Swanigan or Aminu at PF, though Leonard might surprise.
 
BBert said:
Harkless and Swanigan start with Dame, CJ and Nurk. That's better rebounding and shooting.

Shabazz, Morrow, Turner, Vonleh, Meyers/Davis off the bench. That bench is better than people think.

:cheers:
Click to expand...

I would replace Napier, Morrow with Briscoe, Goodwin, have Turner as the Starter and Harkless as the backup, also play Harkless some 4 with Aminu prefferably only as a 4
 
Why would they do that because we can add the trade exception and then they can add Tyson Chandler and have additional 13 mil in cap room with another extra 6 mil after this season. Chandler and Bledsoe expire in 2 years, Napier and Vonleh after this season and Aminu has 2 but only for 7 mil, They're already under the cap by like 2 mil, it will allow them to bring a major free agent this summer
 
Scalma said:
Why would Phoenix do that? Bledsoe is a starter too doubt he'd be happy coming off the bench.
Click to expand...
Bledsoe doesn't fit their timeline, but I agree with the second part - I don't think he'd be happy coming off the bench.
 
Blazer4ever said:
we can add the trade exception and then they can add Tyson Chandler and have additional 13 mil in cap room
Click to expand...
Nope--Chandler's salary is about $30.5K too high to fit inside the trade exception.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Bledsoe doesn't fit their timeline, but I agree with the second part - I don't think he'd be happy coming off the bench.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm not saying Phoenix isn't looking to trade Bledsoe, just that I'm sure they can do better than Aminu and Vonleh.
 
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