Around the NBA - the 2020 Playoff Edition!

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Users who are viewing this thread

it might be more crazy how many people overrate the value of wingspan. It's a factor to be sure, but it's not nearly as significant as many believe, and is offset by several other factors, IMO. Standing reach is overrated too
I think having T-Rex arms hampers your defense but might actually be a plus on offense, at least in terms of quick and repeatable release. Roy had fairly short arms, as I recall.
 
I think having T-Rex arms hampers your defense but might actually be a plus on offense, at least in terms of quick and repeatable release. Roy had fairly short arms, as I recall.

it might help to deflect a pass every once in a while but good defense isn't played with the fingers. It's played with the hips, feet, and eyes. Anticipation, reaction, reflex, lateral mobility, vision, intensity, bbiq...all those are much more important than wingspan. Sure, a long wingspan can occasionally help when a player is beat off the dribble; but if he has those other attributes, he won't often be beat off the dribble. In other words, if has has those attributes and combines it with good wingspan, that's great. But just wingspan alone won't do shit
 
it might help to deflect a pass every once in a while but good defense isn't played with the fingers. It's played with the hips, feet, and eyes. Anticipation, reaction, reflex, lateral mobility, vision, intensity, bbiq...all those are much more important than wingspan. Sure, a long wingspan can occasionally help when a player is beat off the dribble; but if he has those other attributes, he won't often be beat off the dribble. In other words, if has has those attributes and combines it with good wingspan, that's great. But just wingspan alone won't do shit
I agree with you on the whole. I think where long arms are usually imperative is blocks and steals. Although Zach gets a lot of blocks with a mediocre wingspan, so...
 
The greatest thing that could happen for this NBA season is to see Myers Leonard win a title. It would also be awesome if he had one of his out-of-body 30 point games in the finals. Go MyLe.
 
Dude he is old. He puts up numbers but he’s not as good as he was 8 years ago. Surely you see that! This is not prime LeBron.
2012-13.......26/7/8
2019-20.......25/10/8

I’m not a stat guy when it comes to usage rates and PER, but these numbers tell me he is still bringing it..... Surely you see that?
 
it might help to deflect a pass every once in a while but good defense isn't played with the fingers. It's played with the hips, feet, and eyes. Anticipation, reaction, reflex, lateral mobility, vision, intensity, bbiq...all those are much more important than wingspan. Sure, a long wingspan can occasionally help when a player is beat off the dribble; but if he has those other attributes, he won't often be beat off the dribble. In other words, if has has those attributes and combines it with good wingspan, that's great. But just wingspan alone won't do shit
I think having T-Rex arms hampers your defense but might actually be a plus on offense, at least in terms of quick and repeatable release. Roy had fairly short arms, as I recall.
6'8" for Roy. The idea that a players length isn't important especially on defense is ludicrous. When you look at all of the best defenders, they all have serious wingspans, seriously look it up I'm not making this up. Lateral quickness is mentioned as being important and I think after bbiq it's one of the most important qualities in a defender but if it is, why wouldn't lateral length? It makes it so that before we even take into consideration movement, the player is covering more ground. We know that the consensus is that height is an advantage in basketball but is it really? Isn't the real advantage and metric that matters wingspan/standing reach? I don't understand why you can't wrap your head around this one, you're definitely on the wrong side of this argument but don't take my word for it do an exercise, find a list of great defenders with small wingspans maybe even try to find them with wingspans 6'3" and below.
 
I agree with you on the whole. I think where long arms are usually imperative is blocks and steals. Although Zach gets a lot of blocks with a mediocre wingspan, so...
Zach has a well above average reach for his length though (9'3"), quick off his feet and elevates well out of a back pedal.
 
Are we not getting exit interviews from Neil/Terry/etc this year?
It doesn't look like it. Brooke landing that interview with Dame a couple of days ago makes me feel like the team hasn't made plans yet to have exit interviews. It makes sense I guess with the times we're in and the uncertainty that that causes in labor relations, I doubt Neil really wants anyone talking about the future when no one knows what it's going to look like. It's hard to spin things when there's no axis.
 
Herro's wingspan and lack of strength hurts his defense for sure.

But he has an average reach for his height (8'4"), he's smart, moves well, quick reactor, anticipates and will get on the defensive glass.

Probably maxes out as a slight positive on D, which is a little better than I thought when he came out. Has gotten in better shape since Kentucky and actually looks ok guarding 1's
 
TheRinger_NBAPoliticalDonations_Chart_Since2015Bar__2_.png
 
6'8" for Roy. The idea that a players length isn't important especially on defense is ludicrous. When you look at all of the best defenders, they all have serious wingspans, seriously look it up I'm not making this up. Lateral quickness is mentioned as being important and I think after bbiq it's one of the most important qualities in a defender but if it is, why wouldn't lateral length? It makes it so that before we even take into consideration movement, the player is covering more ground. We know that the consensus is that height is an advantage in basketball but is it really? Isn't the real advantage and metric that matters wingspan/standing reach? I don't understand why you can't wrap your head around this one, you're definitely on the wrong side of this argument but don't take my word for it do an exercise, find a list of great defenders with small wingspans maybe even try to find them with wingspans 6'3" and below.

I have "wrapped my head around it".

what I said was that anticipation, reaction & reflex, lateral mobility, vision, bbiq, and intensity were all more important factors than wingspan. I'd add strength to that list as well. I could add focus but that's probably a component of both vision and bbiq. I mean, why isn't CJ a better defender than Chris Paul; his wingspan is 2" longer?

so yeah, I think people overrate wingspan
 
Man I just can't see that sitting very well with players. It just shows you that all of this talk by the league about social justice reform is lip service meant to pander to and placate the players.

I have to say that really feeds my fear (paranoia?) that the owners are planning to use Covid as an excuse for a work stoppage/union busting campaign.
 
I have to say that really feeds my fear (paranoia?) that the owners are planning to use Covid as an excuse for a work stoppage/union busting campaign.
rasta's red/blue chart would indicate the owners have a "right to work" over union preference in their other businesses if the donations are an indication. (sorry, better for the OT)
 
I have to say that really feeds my fear (paranoia?) that the owners are planning to use Covid as an excuse for a work stoppage/union busting campaign.
I don't think that you are paranoid at all. The owners are going to rip up the CBA, I think that is a given. Then they will use the uncertainty of the future and the certainty that the league will lose money this season and next to try and screw the players as bad as they can. I don't think the players are going to be down with that at all. I've talked before about how when the league does terminate the CBA due to the force majeure clause the current CBA mandates that the league immediately engages the NBAPA in good faith negotiations for a new CBA. If the players feel like they're being screwed and the NBA won't budge there will be a lockout that being said if it's found that the league is acting in bad faith the players can litigate for full payment of their guaranteed contracts. I think eventually they'll come to an agreement but it likely won't be until the league can get back on track with full revenue, meaning full capacity crowds. I honestly think we'll miss an entire season. Right now they're saying some time in January but they keep pushing it back and that's before all of this negotiating has even started. It's going to be a real clusterfuck. These players with guaranteed contracts are not going to want to take a pay cut, many of them lavishly live paycheck to paycheck. It's a mess right now and it's going to get worse.
 
I actually don't think that his productivity has fallen off. He is still one of the most explosive players in the game but he has adjusted his game to preserve some of his energy but it hasn't made him less valuable or effective. His numbers and the eye test just don't agree with you. He plays different than he did when he was 18, 23, 28 or 33 because he has always evolved but he's not worse on either end. He uses angles different on defense now, he is still very disruptive, a great on ball defender and help defender. This last game he was cheating off of Grant too much to help defend with Jokic, he won't do that the same way again and Grant won't have another game like that. I don't think you should allow one game (the most recent game) to color your opinion so much.

Do you think he is less than dominant offensively? As far as his defense goes LeBron has pretty much always chosen when to exert his maximum energy on that end but if I had to pick one guy in the league to lock down a player and it could be any other player in the league, I would still choose LeBron. He's still the only guy who can limit the most elite offensive players in the league 1-5... still no one else has his combination of skill, strength, speed and size on defense, not even Giannis. The question to ask yourself is would I rather have Giannis on an elite 1 or LeBron on an elite 5? LeBron is obviously the superior defender of the quickest smallest perimeter players but the gap between LeBron and Giannis on the biggest strongest post players is smaller. Giannis and a lot of other guys put more energy in and focus more on defense than LeBron does play in and play out but when he's needed LeBron is a beast on defense and lets never forget that he accounts for so many points being the league leader in assists while scoring over 25 points per game. At first I was OK with Giannis getting the MVP until I thought about it more and more. LeBron was still the best player in the league this season and he is currently the best player in the playoffs.
Giannis had better raw stats, top 10 PER all time, and his team won more games without another top 10 player. It wasn’t close. That’s why Giannis won. As for the rest of your post, some good points but LeBron stood around while people went by him, and LeBron bails our the defense when he chucks threes which he’s doing more and more and at a very low percentage in this series.
 
Last edited:
Herro has been more impressive to me just watching them. Ja may be a better lead ball handler, but Herro’s skill set fits on more teams and wings are more valuable than point guards. Nothing against Ja, but point guard that can’t shoot have no blueprint for being successful playoff players.
Ja started and Herro came off the bench which is easier. Herro’s good but Ja personally led a team with no All Stars to the 9th best record in the West. And he shot 34% from 3, better than MVP candidate Doncic.
 
2012-13.......26/7/8
2019-20.......25/10/8

I’m not a stat guy when it comes to usage rates and PER, but these numbers tell me he is still bringing it..... Surely you see that?
I actually said “he puts up numbers” and then you posted numbers! I’m aware of his numbers. He’s not as good as he was back then though.
 
I don't think that you are paranoid at all. The owners are going to rip up the CBA, I think that is a given. Then they will use the uncertainty of the future and the certainty that the league will lose money this season and next to try and screw the players as bad as they can. I don't think the players are going to be down with that at all. I've talked before about how when the league does terminate the CBA due to the force majeure clause the current CBA mandates that the league immediately engages the NBAPA in good faith negotiations for a new CBA. If the players feel like they're being screwed and the NBA won't budge there will be a lockout that being said if it's found that the league is acting in bad faith the players can litigate for full payment of their guaranteed contracts. I think eventually they'll come to an agreement but it likely won't be until the league can get back on track with full revenue, meaning full capacity crowds. I honestly think we'll miss an entire season. Right now they're saying some time in January but they keep pushing it back and that's before all of this negotiating has even started. It's going to be a real clusterfuck. These players with guaranteed contracts are not going to want to take a pay cut, many of them lavishly live paycheck to paycheck. It's a mess right now and it's going to get worse.

the players always have the nuclear option and that's to decertify the union, file anti-trust suit(s) and make free agency a wild west free for all. That's the big lever they hold

as for a finding of bad faith, that will be extremely hard to prove in this pandemic. The league could be hemorrhaging money and a major drop in the salary cap (which has already been predicted) could trap a bunch of teams in bad positions, including Portland.

if there is force majeure and a lockout, I have a hunch both side are already building up momentum for militancy and antagonism. 2020 has been that bad
 
I have "wrapped my head around it".

what I said was that anticipation, reaction & reflex, lateral mobility, vision, bbiq, and intensity were all more important factors than wingspan. I'd add strength to that list as well. I could add focus but that's probably a component of both vision and bbiq. I mean, why isn't CJ a better defender than Chris Paul; his wingspan is 2" longer?

so yeah, I think people overrate wingspan

Really? If CP had CJ's wingspan, all else being equal, he'd almost certainly be an even better defender. You're off in loony-ville with this anti-wingspan trip.
 
Man this Jamal Murray guy is the real deal. I use to think his ceiling was a slightly better Cj but man he’s going to be up there with the Dames as far as ceilings go. Only 23 crazy
 
Really? If CP had CJ's wingspan, all else being equal, he'd almost certainly be an even better defender. You're off in loony-ville with this anti-wingspan trip.

so...thinking other factors are more important for defense than simple wingspan is loony....? lol ok

you guys pushing back so hard against that idea actually proves my point that wingspan is overrated
 
The way they are letting LeBron run over people reminds me of what Shaq used to get away with.
 
Back
Top