Exclusive Ayton is agreeing to buyout (1 Viewer)

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Strenuus said:
Makes so much sense why the organization was like "eh, you can stay home in the ice storm. We good here." And didnt try to arrange anything.
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Couldn’t read it, what’s the worst thing he did?
 
Natebishop3 said:
I’m happy Simons and Ayton are gone. I have a feeling we are stuck with Grant.
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Grant has the worst contract but probably the most likely to be of use on the court next season, especially if we push for a top defense. He contributed great and deferred to teammates in the win streak where we beat Minnesota twice.

Ant I was fine with here, he just doesn't have defensive abilities, doesn't provide value on his deal. It was time for him to go to a new team but I kind of regret there wasn't better situations for him and the team when he was here.

Ayton was beyond a joke - one of my least favorite Blazers to ever put on the uniform. So glad he's gone.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Grant has the worst contract but probably the most likely to be of use on the court next season, especially if we push for a top defense. He contributed great and deferred to teammates in the win streak where we beat Minnesota twice.

Ant I was fine with here, he just doesn't have defensive abilities, doesn't provide value on his deal. It was time for him to go to a new team but I kind of regret there wasn't better situations for him and the team when he was here.

Ayton was beyond a joke - one of my least favorite Blazers to ever put on the uniform. So glad he's gone.
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The question is whether Grant will come off the bench. He has been pretty low key but a permanent demotion might be a problem. I don’t want him in the starting lineup. It should be Scoot/Sharpe/Tou/Deni/Clingan.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
How?

Raymond Felton
Ruben Patterson
GP2
Nurkic
Blevins

There are 5 guys that I disliked more than Ayton
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I'll give you Felton.

I liked Ruben. Now he was a horrible human being but he was about the anti Ayton on the court - pure hustle.

Blevins I blame the Blazers and Dame not the cousin.

Nurk I greatly prefer to Ayton.

Think your convincing me... Ayton was Blazer I despise most since 2011. So 15 years.

Really didn't like Crawford once he was on our team either.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I think we can give all three guards more than enough time on the court. Jrue can play either guard spot.
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I agree, neither Scoot or Sharpe can play both SG or PG while Jrue can. Makes perfect sense to bring Jrue off the bench. Grant would also perfect coming off the bench, good scoring option.
 
1 Eye Jack said:
I agree, neither Scoot or Sharpe can play both SG or PG while Jrue can. Makes perfect sense to bring Jrue off the bench. Grant would also perfect coming off the bench, good scoring option.
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What Id prefer to see us do..... the two players who earn it - they start.

Kind of an unheard of concept around here with AytonAntGrant handed whatever they want regardless of performance. Or years of tanking where we start worthless scrubs for dozens of games.

I've seen Scoot play great defense and knock down his 3s. Jrue has obviously played at an all-star level. Sharpe should be given a chance too. Whoever deserves to start should start.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
I'll give you Felton.

I liked Ruben. Now he was a horrible human being but he was about the anti Ayton on the court - pure hustle.

Blevins I blame the Blazers and Dame not the cousin.

Nurk I greatly prefer to Ayton.

Think your convincing me... Ayton was Blazer I despise most since 2011. So 15 years.

Really didn't like Crawford once he was on our team either.
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I prefer Nurk but I really prefer neither. Both guys refused to use there skills in the best way possible and not because they couldn't but because they thought they knew a better way. Turns out both of them are just dumb.

Yeah Nurk would just pout and sulk when he didn't get his way and that's way better than throwing shit around and calling yourself Dominayton but again I prefer neither. Two self involved guys just filled with drama who both choose not to be all star level players. Can you imagine that??? you have all of the skills, talent and size to be an all star in the greatest league on Earth and you choose not to... So fucking sick of watching that shit. Glad to be rid of both.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
What Id prefer to see us do..... the two players who earn it - they start.

Kind of an unheard of concept around here with AytonAntGrant handed whatever they want regardless of performance. Or years of tanking where we start worthless scrubs for dozens of games.

I've seen Scoot play great defense and knock down his 3s. Jrue has obviously played at an all-star level. Sharpe should be given a chance too. Whoever deserves to start should start.
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while I sort of agree with you we’ve got two young guards who need to start and get time to develop playing against starters. Let them play if by end of year they aren’t cutting it then you know you need to improve the position. Also you don’t have to start your best players sometimes the better fit is having key player off the bench ala Manu G who like Jrue can play both guard positions
 
wizenheimer said:
this was all predictable before the Dame trade. Too bad the Blazers weren't smart enough to flip Ayton to another team in that trade. Maybe Indiana still had the hots for him
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I don't think anyone wanted him. We were trading hot garbage for their hot garbage. It was a miracle we got Tou.
 
BBert said:
I think Jrue SHOULD start. If Scoot wants to start, he needs to outplay him.
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What does outplay mean? If you mean he should be able to play in a way that would contribute more to wins (which is how I would define playing better) it's just not a fair fight. The bigger problem is that I don't think Shaedon will outplay any of Tou, Deni or Jerami by that same definition. So if we're just going to play the guys who give us the best chance to win the next game, every game next year then Scoot and Shaedon will be bench pieces which just isn't the way to get the best from them for our futre, in my opinion. I think it's short sighted bullshit but that's not me faulting Chauncey if it's what happens. The team just isn't constructed coherently.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I don't think anyone wanted him. We were trading hot garbage for their hot garbage. It was a miracle we got Tou.
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we know somebody in Portland really wanted him....a lot. We heard rumors of the Blazers coveting him for nearly 2 years before the trade. I'd imagine that was Cronin because at the presser Cronin explicitly said Ayton "was a top-5 C with plenty of room to grow". That was a massively bad evaluation
 
wizenheimer said:
we know somebody in Portland really wanted him....a lot. We heard rumors of the Blazers coveting him for nearly 2 years before the trade. I'd imagine that was Cronin because at the presser Cronin explicitly said Ayton "was a top-5 C with plenty of room to grow". That was a massively bad evaluation
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It was a pretty low risk swing. He didn't work out and now he's gone. Oh well.
 
wizenheimer said:
we know somebody in Portland really wanted him....a lot. We heard rumors of the Blazers coveting him for nearly 2 years before the trade. I'd imagine that was Cronin because at the presser Cronin explicitly said Ayton "was a top-5 C with plenty of room to grow". That was a massively bad evaluation
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The guy has talent, and it makes sense to take a chance on that talent, with hopes of a new environment bringing out his best version. When he is playing both ends with energy, the guy is really good.
 
blazerkor said:
What does outplay mean? If you mean he should be able to play in a way that would contribute more to wins (which is how I would define playing better) it's just not a fair fight. The bigger problem is that I don't think Shaedon will outplay any of Tou, Deni or Jerami by that same definition. So if we're just going to play the guys who give us the best chance to win the next game, every game next year then Scoot and Shaedon will be bench pieces which just isn't the way to get the best from them for our futre, in my opinion. I think it's short sighted bullshit but that's not me faulting Chauncey if it's what happens. The team just isn't constructed coherently.
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I think it's fine if Scoot and Sharpe are coming off the bench because that gives us a better chance to win.

The problem the last few years is this wasn't the case. Scoot had times he was playing better than Ant yet still coming off the bench. Clingan outplayed Ayton but was benched. Deni outplayed Grant and was benched.

The problem next year would be if Jrue, Grant or others are given starting spots just because they're vets or just because of any reason outside of production on the court.
 
Ayton was really good? But just how good?

I remember the year Hassan Whiteside spent as a Blazer. A lot of fans hated him and thought he sucked. But how does Whiteside in his year as a Blazer compare to Ayton this last season? Maybe that can gauge just how 'good' Ayton was:

Points/100-possessions: Ayton 23.2....Whiteside 24.7 (Whiteside 1.5 more points on 2.2 fewer shots)
Rebonds/100-possessions: Ayton 16.4....Whiteside 21.5
Blocks/100-possessions: Ayton 1.6....Whiteside 4.7
FTA/100-possessions: Ayton 2.4....Whiteside 5.7

Off Rating: Ayton 115....Whiteside 125
Def Rating: Ayton 112....Whiteside 107
Net Rating: Ayton +3....Whiteside +18

FG%: Ayton .566....Whiteside .621
FT%: Ayton .667....Whiteside .686
eFG%: Ayton .573....Whiteside .624
TS%: Ayton .583....Whiteside .644
Points/Shot: Ayton 1.23....Whiteside 1.48

PER: Ayton 17.7....Whiteside 25.0
FT Rate: Ayton .128....Whiteside .340
Total Reb Rate: Ayton 18.2%....Whiteside 23.6%
Off Reb Rate: Ayton 10.9%....Whiteside 13.6%
Assist Rate: Ayton 8.5%....Whiteside 5.9%
Block Rate: Ayton 2.9%....Whiteside 8.4%
Winshares/48: Ayton .113....Whiteside .204
BPM: Ayton -0.7....Whiteside +3.2
VORP: Ayton 0.4....Whiteside 2.6 (cumulative; but Whiteside 650% higher VORP on 67% more minutes)

it's a clean sweep, across the board for Whiteside...except for assists rate. And considering Ayton is a poor passer, that make Whiteside terrible

but other that that....

* Whiteside was an elite rim-protector & shot-blocker. Yeah, sometimes he'd go overboard hunting shots to block and allow back door offensive rebounds. But he had a definite impact in altering opponent shots. When Whiteside was on the floor, opponents had a eFG% of .523; when he was off the floor, it was .538. When Ayton was on the floor, opponents had an eFG% of .570; when he was off the floor it was .531. Those are huge differences

* same is true for the overall opponent offenses. When Whiteside was on the floor opponents had an offensive rating of 113.8; off the floor it was 116.9. Not the same, at all, for Ayton. When he was on the floor, Opponents had an offensive rating of 118.4; when he was off the floor 113.6

* if you're keeping track, Whitesides on/off-team/opponent net offensive rating was +8.0. Ayton's was -5.1

to me, rim protection and paint defense are, generically, the most important skills for a modern big. Rebounding is quite important too and Whiteside was much better at that, at both ends of the floor, especially offensive rebounding. Whiteside got to the FT line at a much higher rate which meant he was drawing fouls on defenders and getting opponents in the bonus; not the case with Ayton. They both suck as passers. Whiteside was better at screens

the only skill advantage Ayton has is mid-range shooting; without drawing fouls. I don't see much value in that. I wasn't very fond of Whiteside, but IMO, he did things well that had more value

so I guess maybe the question was Whiteside underrated or is Ayton overrated; or a combo of both. Some people claimed Whiteside had empty stats. If he had empty stats, are Ayton's even emptier?

so very glad he's gone
 
wizenheimer said:
we know somebody in Portland really wanted him....a lot. We heard rumors of the Blazers coveting him for nearly 2 years before the trade. I'd imagine that was Cronin because at the presser Cronin explicitly said Ayton "was a top-5 C with plenty of room to grow". That was a massively bad evaluation
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Might be. Or if may have primarily been Bert.
 
wizenheimer said:
Ayton was really good? But just how good?

I remember the year Hassan Whiteside spent as a Blazer. A lot of fans hated him and thought he sucked. But how does Whiteside in his year as a Blazer compare to Ayton this last season? Maybe that can gauge just how 'good' Ayton was:

Points/100-possessions: Ayton 23.2....Whiteside 24.7 (Whiteside 1.5 more points on 2.2 fewer shots)
Rebonds/100-possessions: Ayton 16.4....Whiteside 21.5
Blocks/100-possessions: Ayton 1.6....Whiteside 4.7
FTA/100-possessions: Ayton 2.4....Whiteside 5.7

Off Rating: Ayton 115....Whiteside 125
Def Rating: Ayton 112....Whiteside 107
Net Rating: Ayton +3....Whiteside +18

FG%: Ayton .566....Whiteside .621
FT%: Ayton .667....Whiteside .686
eFG%: Ayton .573....Whiteside .624
TS%: Ayton .583....Whiteside .644
Points/Shot: Ayton 1.23....Whiteside 1.48

PER: Ayton 17.7....Whiteside 25.0
FT Rate: Ayton .128....Whiteside .340
Total Reb Rate: Ayton 18.2%....Whiteside 23.6%
Off Reb Rate: Ayton 10.9%....Whiteside 13.6%
Assist Rate: Ayton 8.5%....Whiteside 5.9%
Block Rate: Ayton 2.9%....Whiteside 8.4%
Winshares/48: Ayton .113....Whiteside .204
BPM: Ayton -0.7....Whiteside +3.2
VORP: Ayton 0.4....Whiteside 2.6 (cumulative; but Whiteside 650% higher VORP on 67% more minutes)

it's a clean sweep, across the board for Whiteside...except for assists rate. And considering Ayton is a poor passer, that make Whiteside terrible

but other that that....

* Whiteside was an elite rim-protector & shot-blocker. Yeah, sometimes he'd go overboard hunting shots to block and allow back door offensive rebounds. But he had a definite impact in altering opponent shots. When Whiteside was on the floor, opponents had a eFG% of .523; when he was off the floor, it was .538. When Ayton was on the floor, opponents had an eFG% of .570; when he was off the floor it was .531. Those are huge differences

* same is true for the overall opponent offenses. When Whiteside was on the floor opponents had an offensive rating of 113.8; off the floor it was 116.9. Not the same, at all, for Ayton. When he was on the floor, Opponents had an offensive rating of 118.4; when he was off the floor 113.6

* if you're keeping track, Whitesides on/off-team/opponent net offensive rating was +8.0. Ayton's was -5.1

to me, rim protection and paint defense are, generically, the most important skills for a modern big. Rebounding is quite important too and Whiteside was much better at that, at both ends of the floor, especially offensive rebounding. Whiteside got to the FT line at a much higher rate which meant he was drawing fouls on defenders and getting opponents in the bonus; not the case with Ayton. They both suck as passers. Whiteside was better at screens

the only skill advantage Ayton has is mid-range shooting; without drawing fouls. I don't see much value in that. I wasn't very fond of Whiteside, but IMO, he did things well that had more value

so I guess maybe the question was Whiteside underrated or is Ayton overrated; or a combo of both. Some people claimed Whiteside had empty stats. If he had empty stats, are Ayton's even emptier?

so very glad he's gone
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I remember Whiteside season here how posters were saying we wouldn't be able to retain him because he'd warrant a 20mil or larger contract.

The next off-season he signed for the vet minimum, then a year later was out of the league.

Your right - even that weak production of a center was much better than Ayton.

I don't understand the posters here that defend Ayton. I swear some of them only look at ppg/rpg and ignore all other contributions. Ayton defense is some of the worst effort I've ever seen from a big man.
 
wizenheimer said:
Ayton was really good? But just how good?

I remember the year Hassan Whiteside spent as a Blazer. A lot of fans hated him and thought he sucked. But how does Whiteside in his year as a Blazer compare to Ayton this last season? Maybe that can gauge just how 'good' Ayton was:

Points/100-possessions: Ayton 23.2....Whiteside 24.7 (Whiteside 1.5 more points on 2.2 fewer shots)
Rebonds/100-possessions: Ayton 16.4....Whiteside 21.5
Blocks/100-possessions: Ayton 1.6....Whiteside 4.7
FTA/100-possessions: Ayton 2.4....Whiteside 5.7

Off Rating: Ayton 115....Whiteside 125
Def Rating: Ayton 112....Whiteside 107
Net Rating: Ayton +3....Whiteside +18

FG%: Ayton .566....Whiteside .621
FT%: Ayton .667....Whiteside .686
eFG%: Ayton .573....Whiteside .624
TS%: Ayton .583....Whiteside .644
Points/Shot: Ayton 1.23....Whiteside 1.48

PER: Ayton 17.7....Whiteside 25.0
FT Rate: Ayton .128....Whiteside .340
Total Reb Rate: Ayton 18.2%....Whiteside 23.6%
Off Reb Rate: Ayton 10.9%....Whiteside 13.6%
Assist Rate: Ayton 8.5%....Whiteside 5.9%
Block Rate: Ayton 2.9%....Whiteside 8.4%
Winshares/48: Ayton .113....Whiteside .204
BPM: Ayton -0.7....Whiteside +3.2
VORP: Ayton 0.4....Whiteside 2.6 (cumulative; but Whiteside 650% higher VORP on 67% more minutes)

it's a clean sweep, across the board for Whiteside...except for assists rate. And considering Ayton is a poor passer, that make Whiteside terrible

but other that that....

* Whiteside was an elite rim-protector & shot-blocker. Yeah, sometimes he'd go overboard hunting shots to block and allow back door offensive rebounds. But he had a definite impact in altering opponent shots. When Whiteside was on the floor, opponents had a eFG% of .523; when he was off the floor, it was .538. When Ayton was on the floor, opponents had an eFG% of .570; when he was off the floor it was .531. Those are huge differences

* same is true for the overall opponent offenses. When Whiteside was on the floor opponents had an offensive rating of 113.8; off the floor it was 116.9. Not the same, at all, for Ayton. When he was on the floor, Opponents had an offensive rating of 118.4; when he was off the floor 113.6

* if you're keeping track, Whitesides on/off-team/opponent net offensive rating was +8.0. Ayton's was -5.1

to me, rim protection and paint defense are, generically, the most important skills for a modern big. Rebounding is quite important too and Whiteside was much better at that, at both ends of the floor, especially offensive rebounding. Whiteside got to the FT line at a much higher rate which meant he was drawing fouls on defenders and getting opponents in the bonus; not the case with Ayton. They both suck as passers. Whiteside was better at screens

the only skill advantage Ayton has is mid-range shooting; without drawing fouls. I don't see much value in that. I wasn't very fond of Whiteside, but IMO, he did things well that had more value

so I guess maybe the question was Whiteside underrated or is Ayton overrated; or a combo of both. Some people claimed Whiteside had empty stats. If he had empty stats, are Ayton's even emptier?

so very glad he's gone
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I thought Whiteside got a bad rep as a player. He wasn't as bad as people made him out to be. He wasn't elite by any means, but he was more than serviceable.
 
Whiteside was a rim deterrent, but he was not a good defender. Same vein of players though, where their counting stats look good but it was obvious why they became vet min guys real quick. Same with Andre Drummond.
 
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