Exclusive Ayton is agreeing to buyout (4 Viewers)

[SharpesTriumph]

If we don't trade for Ayton, we don't get Camara. They're linked. How would Phoenix have taken on Allen without sending out Ayton?

Should the Blazers also be praised for drafting Nassir Little and acquired Keon Johnson since they were in the trade as well? Or should we praise the Nurk contract signing since that was used in the Camara trade?

At some point it doesn't make sense to use other players moves to praise different moves.

Acquiring Camara was a great move. We should praise the decision to acquire him.

He wasn't the main piece relevant for Ayton going to the Blazers at the time so shouldn't be justified in that way.

 

[Natebishop3]

Camara wasn't a "throw in."

https://www.si.com/nba/trailblazers...i-camara-in-damian-lillard-trade-01jmcvqexdv2

“Joe (Cronin) was adamant,” Blazers coach Chauncey Billups said in December 2023 about the Blazers general manager having Camara included."

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Except some stuff happened between the draft and the trade.

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-2k24-s...camara-double-double-elevates-suns-to-victory

View attachment 74503

Camara looked great during summer league. The team was clearly impressed by him. They demanded that he be included. It's not like they fell ass backwards into him. The buzz immediately after trading for him was that he would be part of the rotation.

I'm all for giving the Blazers praise for acquiring Camara.

I just don't agree with it being a justification for acquiring Ayton. Yes these moves had correlation, as well as a dozen other moves being correlated. But Ayton Camara weren't a 1 to 1 roster move at the time and shouldn't be judged that way.

 

[Natebishop3]

Should the Blazers also be praised for drafting Nassir Little and acquired Keon Johnson since they were in the trade as well? Or should we praise the Nurk contract signing since that was used in the Camara trade?

At some point it doesn't make sense to use other players moves to praise different moves.

Acquiring Camara was a great move. We should praise the decision to acquire him.

He wasn't the main piece relevant for Ayton going to the Blazers at the time so shouldn't be justified in that way.

What does any of that have to do with regretting trading for Ayton? If anything, the fact that none of those players have gone on to do anything should further cement that they don't regret the trade.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm all for giving the Blazers praise for acquiring Camara.

I just don't agree with it being a justification for acquiring Ayton. Yes these moves had correlation, as well as a dozen other moves being correlated. But Ayton Camara weren't a 1 to 1 roster move at the time and shouldn't be judged that way.

But we're looking back at these moves. That's what regret is or would be. Reflection on past moves.

Was this a bad trade?

Blazers get:
Ayton
Camara

Phoenix gets:
Nurkic
Keon
Little
Allen

To me, the Blazers CLEARLY won that trade. Little is out of the league, Keon sucks. He finally got minutes last season and he shot 39% from the field and 31% from three. Nurkic is on his third team since being traded. Allen is a decent role player.

If Ayton was nothing but salary filler to get rid of those guys, I'd be fine with it just because we got Camara. Nurk had to go. We all knew it. We dumped one headcase for another headcase. It didn't work out with Ayton, but we do have the full MLE so I guess we will see what happens. But Camara was the best player in the trade between Portland and Phoenix.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

Nurkic is someone I liked though he alternated between stretches of excellence and frustrating (on a more regular basis). Denver > Portland > Phoenix > Charlotte > Utah.
Ayton is someone who has the athletic gifts but who doesn't play the way teams want him to or need him to do or what he could do. A bit frustrating.
Both are gone. Hope they're happier. How will they do this year? I don't care. I'm a Blazers fan.

Clingan, Yang, Deni, Toumani, Rupes, Shaedon, Scoot and the veterans -- Time Lord, Grant, Holiday, Reath.
I'm interested to see how the question marks on this team show out. And if/when Cronin, et.al. make other moves.
I can watch this team.

 

[blazerkor]

But we're looking back at these moves. That's what regret is or would be. Reflection on past moves.

Was this a bad trade?

Blazers get:
Ayton
Camara

Phoenix gets:
Nurkic
Keon
Little
Allen

To me, the Blazers CLEARLY won that trade. Little is out of the league, Keon sucks. He finally got minutes last season and he shot 39% from the field and 31% from three. Nurkic is on his third team since being traded. Allen is a decent role player.

If Ayton was nothing but salary filler to get rid of those guys, I'd be fine with it just because we got Camara. Nurk had to go. We all knew it. We dumped one headcase for another headcase. It didn't work out with Ayton, but we do have the full MLE so I guess we will see what happens. But Camara was the best player in the trade between Portland and Phoenix.

Yeah people can play a lot of what if games all they want but the trade did include Tou, Tou is now the best player in the trade, we only ate the final year of DA's contract and even got a little relief from that.

The facts are the facts. Does anyone think the Blazers regret getting Tou and Ayton for Nurk, Allen, Nas and Keon? No, I'm sure they are very happy with that exchange. So overall, regardless of if Ayton's lack of value and Tou's extreme value weren't known at the time of the trade, there's no fucking way the team regrets that trade.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah people can play a lot of what if games all they want but the trade did include Tou, Tou is now the best player in the trade, we only ate the final year of DA's contract and even got a little relief from that.

The facts are the facts. Does anyone think the Blazers regret getting Tou and Ayton for Nurk, Allen, Nas and Keon? No, I'm sure they are very happy with that exchange. So overall, regardless of if Ayton's lack of value and Tou's extreme value weren't known at the time of the trade, there's no fucking way the team regrets that trade.

And we had to get of rid of Nurk. The Blazers took a swing on a younger enigmatic big. They gave up nothing. It was a steaming pile of garbage. The risk was extremely low. His money is gone after this season. We have other centers to take his place. We got Tou. It was a win all around.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

But we're looking back at these moves. That's what regret is or would be. Reflection on past moves.

Was this a bad trade?

Blazers get:
Ayton
Camara

Phoenix gets:
Nurkic
Keon
Little
Allen

To me, the Blazers CLEARLY won that trade. Little is out of the league, Keon sucks. He finally got minutes last season and he shot 39% from the field and 31% from three. Nurkic is on his third team since being traded. Allen is a decent role player.

If Ayton was nothing but salary filler to get rid of those guys, I'd be fine with it just because we got Camara. Nurk had to go. We all knew it. We dumped one headcase for another headcase. It didn't work out with Ayton, but we do have the full MLE so I guess we will see what happens. But Camara was the best player in the trade between Portland and Phoenix.

Id say Blazers did great getting Camara thrown in.

All the rest of it is a bunch of irrelevant movement. I have no regrets about acquiring Ayton and doubt the Blazers do. It didn't work out as hoped but was never thought to be a great home run opportunity either. It was taking a chance with little cost that was probably likely to end up with nothing as it did.

Kind of like when we flipped Turner for Bazemore, or Harkless+Meyers for Whiteside. All a bunch of irrelevant musical chairs.

Getting Camara yes was great.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Regrets? I've had a few.
Nurkic is someone I liked though he alternated between stretches of excellence and frustrating (on a more regular basis). Denver > Portland > Phoenix > Charlotte > Utah.
Ayton is someone who has the athletic gifts but who doesn't play the way teams want him to or need him to do or what he could do. A bit frustrating.
Both are gone. Hope they're happier. How will they do this year? I don't care. I'm a Blazers fan.

Clingan, Yang, Deni, Toumani, Rupes, Shaedon, Scoot and the veterans -- Time Lord, Grant, Holiday, Reath.
I'm interested to see how the question marks on this team show out. And if/when Cronin, et.al. make other moves.
I can watch this team.

Yeah, the point should be to look at a dozen of these guys and hope we get 3-7 that are key future pieces. Then dump the misfits for chances at new guys in a few years.

NBA teams don't need to be batting 100% on players. There will always be misses . Hell they don't even need to bat 50%. They just need a hit every other year and keep taking more chances next year while keeping a hold of most your prior good acquisitions.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

And we had to get of rid of Nurk. The Blazers took a swing on a younger enigmatic big. They gave up nothing. It was a steaming pile of garbage. The risk was extremely low. His money is gone after this season. We have other centers to take his place. We got Tou. It was a win all around.

We didn't have to get rid of Nurk and I don't see why we ever thought the need to sign him. But once we signed him it was a sunk cost and I think everyone is fine we moved on from him. Vast majority seem fine we now moved on from Ayton.

 

[Natebishop3]

We didn't have to get rid of Nurk and I don't see why we ever thought the need to sign him. But once we signed him it was a sunk cost and I think everyone is fine we moved on from him. Vast majority seem fine we now moved on from Ayton.

Mostly referring to his public comments he made that if Dame was gone, he'd be gone too. I don't think he wanted to be here. I don't think the Blazers wanted him here. It was just good to get rid of him.

 

[riverman]

Not when you have people posting the same exact opinion in 5 different threads. Clean this shit up Sly!

C'mon bro! You've posted this EXACT same opinion in a couple of decades worth of threads homeslice!

 

[Strenuus]

I think they got rid of Ayton because Yang is ready now.

YOU think that. They sure as hell better not think that. That would be so fucking dumb on their part.

Yang will be mid. No rational gm or front office would ever do this.

Now back to the reality of the situation, because this isnt it.

 

[wizenheimer]

My understanding is that Phoenix didn't want to include Tou and the Blazers insisted he was included...they wanted Tou before Phoenix got him..

Blazers could have drafted Camara but chose Rupert instead

 

[riverman]

Blazers could have drafted Camara but chose Rupert instead

View attachment 74507

yeah...I stand corrected...they really wanted him after summer league but also before the draft they had checked him out. In the end ..they wanted and got him. Tou is also quite a few years older than Rupes. Rupes is 21 and Tou is 25

 

[HailBlazers]

Blazers could have drafted Camara but chose Rupert instead

View attachment 74507

And you've been married how many times?

 

[wizenheimer]

yeah...I stand corrected...they really wanted him after summer league but also before the draft they had checked him out. In the end ..they wanted and got him. Tou is also quite a few years older than Rupes. Rupes is 21 and Tou is 25

it's entirely possible Cronin/Schmitz watched Camara in SL and then wanted him included in the Dame trade. Cronin said they wanted picks and at least one young prospect for Dame, and Camara fit the young prospect part of the equation

but the Blazers had not targeted Camara before that point

 

[SlyPokerDog]

it's entirely possible Cronin/Schmitz watched Camara in SL and then wanted him included in the Dame trade. Cronin said they wanted picks and at least one young prospect for Dame, and Camara fit the young prospect part of the equation

but the Blazers had not targeted Camara before that point

When I met with Schmitz, he said he's been following him since Camara was in the 8th grade.

 

[blazerkor]

When I met with Schmitz, he said he's been following him since Camara was in the 8th grade.

Schmitz has been following probably over a thousand basketball players since they were 14. Dude is only where he's at because he's known every prospect on that level since 2007 and his ability to make good assessments.

 

[wizenheimer]

And you've been married how many times?

3rd time the charm

 

[SharpesTriumph]

When I met with Schmitz, he said he's been following him since Camara was in the 8th grade.

Bizarre that they wouldn't have got a 52nd pick for him then. Would have cost little.

Or maybe Schmitz has followed every top100 prospect for many years so he can later on claim that about near everyone.

 

[wizenheimer]

Bizarre that they wouldn't have got a 52nd pick for him then. Would have cost little.

Or maybe Schmitz has followed every top100 prospect for many years so he can later on claim that about near everyone.

at the time of the draft, Blazers obviously valued Rupert more than Camara

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Schmitz has been following probably over a thousand basketball players since they were 14. Dude is only where he's at because he's known every prospect on that level since 2007 and his ability to make good assessments.

Bizarre that they wouldn't have got a 52nd pick for him then. Would have cost little.

Or maybe Schmitz has followed every top100 prospect for many years so he can later on claim that about near everyone.

Or maybe he ranked them 1a and 1b for that draft position/range, and Cronin made the choice.

All I know is that Schmitz said he was at a tournament with other scouts. They were there to see a different player who was older, but it was the youngest kid there who played limited minutes that drew his attention, and he followed him ever since.

 

[HailBlazers]

at the time of the draft, Blazers obviously valued Rupert more than Camara

You live, and you learn.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

it's entirely possible Cronin/Schmitz watched Camara in SL and then wanted him included in the Dame trade. Cronin said they wanted picks and at least one young prospect for Dame, and Camara fit the young prospect part of the equation

but the Blazers had not targeted Camara before that point

Scouted and knew of him? Yes.
His workout with the Blazers — after many others — was not good at all.
Targeted prior to Summer League? No. Saw him and had a holy crap moment.
Got him in the Ayton trade — insisted? Yes.
That’s the way I heard it.

 

[HailBlazers]

This forum pedantic? Indeed.

 

[wizenheimer]

You live, and you learn.

learning can be expensive....I know that now

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[LayneStaley]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/PclthDq14J