Batum ready to replace Roy at 2 guard

[RR7]

Oden's cap hold doesn't matter much for LT purposes, outside of mini MLE or full MLE. LT is calculated at the end of the season. Right now, with his 8.8 QO and with Brandon, and with estimates for rookies and overseas rights, we are at 80 million. That also includes Patty, Claver and Freeland. LT is roughly 70. Cutting Brandon gets that to 65. Under the LT. Shaving 10 million of luxury tax dollars. But, once the season began, holds for Patty, Claver and Freeland come off, with Oden at his QO, we'd be under 78. Roughly 8 million in LT payments. So cutting Roy saves his 15 salary and 8 in LT. And most we can sign a guy for is 5 million, not a 15m replacement.
Not sure where your figures are from.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

This cap-hold talk will surely make HCP's head explode.

 

[RoyToy]

With Oden's cap hold, the Blazers are ~$19M into the LT. If they simply cut Roy, they'll be $4M into the LT, saving $15M in luxury tax and $15M for his salary.

If Oden signs for the QO, you'll still be $14.5M into the LT with Roy. I assume you'll want to sign your draft picks.

How much higher is the luxury tax # to the salary cap #?

 

[Denny Crane]

Paying him after using the amnesty clause on him and then paying someone else (like Wade) the same money ($15M) would be like paying $30M for Wade.

Or like a $1 for $1 tax. That's on top of any luxury tax.

It's REALLY expensive to cut him unless they (just about) don't want to sign anyone at all.

I was just pointing out that you have to pay Roy, like a tax, if you cut him, period. LOL at you guys getting Wade, but I was making the point that it's really expensive to pay him not to play.

And http://www.hoopsworld.com/portland-trail-blazers-team-salary/

It says you're $73M without the cap holds (and without Mills at all or Oden at all). With those two at their QOs, it's $83.5M which is $13.5M over last year's cap. Your #21 pick costs you $1.2M.

$14.7M over the LT.

You also have cap holds for Koponen, Diener, Claver, and Freeland.

Now you're close to $18M.

 

[Denny Crane]

How much higher is the luxury tax # to the salary cap #?

Last year, about $12.5M.

 

[RoyToy]

I was just pointing out that you have to pay Roy, like a tax, if you cut him, period. LOL at you guys getting Wade, but I was making the point that it's really expensive to pay him not to play.

It's not like a tax, though.

You're paying him either way, and if you cut him you're not paying any extra $ on him. If you keep him, you are.

One way is less $ than the other. Pretty simple.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Forget about the capholds, that only matters if the Blazers were below the soft salary cap line which they won't be this year no matter who's coming back. The only calculation that matters is total salary, how far over the luxury tax they'll be if they keep Roy and how far below they could be if he's off the cap.

 

[Masbee]

Oden's cap hold doesn't matter much for LT purposes, outside of mini MLE or full MLE. LT is calculated at the end of the season. Right now, with his 8.8 QO and with Brandon, and with estimates for rookies and overseas rights, we are at 80 million. That also includes Patty, Claver and Freeland. LT is roughly 70. Cutting Brandon gets that to 65. Under the LT. Shaving 10 million of luxury tax dollars. But, once the season began, holds for Patty, Claver and Freeland come off, with Oden at his QO, we'd be under 78. Roughly 8 million in LT payments. So cutting Roy saves his 15 salary and 8 in LT. And most we can sign a guy for is 5 million, not a 15m replacement.
Not sure where your figures are from.

Right.

Until we can get the new CBA to look at and better info I have been rounding off to appx $10mil lux tax bill to retain Roy.

Keep Roy: $15mil sal, $10mil lux tax
Amnesty Roy: $15mil sal, $0 lux tax, -$1mil offset, $5 MLE replacement player

Just doesn't seem likely the team will save huge money if they wait 1 year.

However, if through the agents back channels, it seems the Blazers can swing a trade for young quality starting caliber player, they should consider cutting Roy now (assuming that is needed to make it all work).

 

[Denny Crane]

It's not like a tax, though.

You're paying him either way, and if you cut him you're not paying any extra $ on him. If you keep him, you are.

One way is less $ than the other. Pretty simple.

It's obviously best, money-wise for the owner to just cut him and sign nobody. I already posted that.

But it is like a tax. Similar to the luxury tax, you're paying HIM instead of the league. As I pointed out, IF you could sign another $15M worth of players (or player), it'd be like having a $2 tax, or $45M cost.

Forget about the capholds, that only matters if we the Blazers were below the soft salary cap line which they won't be this year no matter who's coming back. The only calculation that matters is total salary, how far over the luxury tax they'll be if they keep Roy and how far below they could be if he's off the cap.

the best info I can find is $14.5M over, $500K under (cut Roy). That assumes Oden signs for the minimum QO, and Patty Mills the same. And that you don't sign anyone else or trade for a player that brings $500K more salary in than out.

 

[RoyToy]

It's obviously best, money-wise for the owner to just cut him and sign nobody. I already posted that.

But it is like a tax. Similar to the luxury tax, you're paying HIM instead of the league. As I pointed out, IF you could sign another $15M worth of players (or player), it'd be like having a $2 tax, or $45M cost.

I just don't see it like that at all.

 

[Draco]

the best info I can find is $14.5M over, $500K under (cut Roy). That assumes Oden signs for the minimum QO, and Patty Mills the same. And that you don't sign anyone else or trade for a player that brings $500K more salary in than out.

Hey Mr. Bulls fan, I guarantee you Patty doesn't sign here. He's stuck in China for the year.

 

[Denny Crane]

Hey Mr. Bulls fan, I guarantee you Patty doesn't sign here. He's stuck in China for the year.

You going to replace him with a player for $1.2M or less?

 

[Draco]

You going to replace him with a player for $1.2M or less?

Nolan Smith but he should already be in your salary sheets.

 

[OdenHoF]

Also, you mentioned Koponen on "cap holds"? I believe the Mavericks own his contract now. FWIW.

 

[Denny Crane]

Nolan Smith but he should already be in your salary sheets.

He is.

 

[Sinobas]

Anyone understand that clause that said a team had to spend at least 85% of it's cap room? That means if a bunch of your players contracts expire, and they sign with other teams, you're forced to go out and get FAs and potenially way overpay them to get up to 85%?

 

[Draco]

Anyone understand that clause that said a team had to spend at least 85% of it's cap room? That means if a bunch of your players contracts expire, and they sign with other teams, you're forced to go out and get FAs and potenially way overpay them to get up to 85%?

Or just assume contracts in a trade. There are always teams looking to shed players.

 

[RR7]

I wouldn't bother to use hoopsworlds salary info, personally. But they seem to behigher on camby and Wallace than I have seen elsehwere. Also, like mentioned above, you included Koponen, who we no longer have. On top of that, and I could be wrong, but I believe if you waive a player, and he signs elsewhere, the amount of money he signs for can go off of what you owed him. So, when we cut Steve Francis, and he was signed for a million, we saved a million. I believe by signing in LA, we don't have to pay on Gomes anymore, since his salary there offsets what we would have owed him. I could be wrong.
Regardless, I think you're still a bit high on the numbers. And I don't know why you mention replacing him with 15 million worth of players to say 45 million. That makes no sense. One, because we can't, and also because we don't have to. If we replaced him with 30 million dollars worth of players, it'd be 60! But that doesn't matter.

 

[Denny Crane]

I wouldn't bother to use hoopsworlds salary info, personally. But they seem to behigher on camby and Wallace than I have seen elsehwere. Also, like mentioned above, you included Koponen, who we no longer have. On top of that, and I could be wrong, but I believe if you waive a player, and he signs elsewhere, the amount of money he signs for can go off of what you owed him. So, when we cut Steve Francis, and he was signed for a million, we saved a million. I believe by signing in LA, we don't have to pay on Gomes anymore, since his salary there offsets what we would have owed him. I could be wrong.
Regardless, I think you're still a bit high on the numbers. And I don't know why you mention replacing him with 15 million worth of players to say 45 million. That makes no sense. One, because we can't, and also because we don't have to. If we replaced him with 30 million dollars worth of players, it'd be 60! But that doesn't matter.

The numbers are similar to the ones on shamsports.com as well as on S2.

I already pointed out that in the $45M scenario, if Roy signed somewhere else for $5M, it'd still cost the team $40M to replace his salary with one or more players that add up to $15M in salary.

 

[RR7]

shamsports still has Rudy on our roster. No good. S2 says it is from storytellers, but doesn't match up, and also has Rudy on our roster. As well as Pendergraph and Koponen. No good.

And I still don't understand the 15 million dollar player point of your post. To show how much more it would cost? Why? We can't bring in a 15, 20 or 30 million dollar guy to replace him.