Batum to undergo shoulder surgery

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Right now it looks like several guys will get their shots to step up and show they can play this season. That signing of Howard is looking real smart right now. I actually think forcing Outlaw into the SF spot will be a real good thing. The Blazers always got punked on the boards with thei second unit in. Not anymore.
 
RoyIsClutch07 said:
As tempting as it might be, I can't see the organization doing this.
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I can. And another reason I would consider doing it is because if we don't, somebody else that competes with us will. A lot of people seem to have forgotten that Jackson won a championship with San Antonio. He does fine if there is good team leadership to keep him in line. Things didn't start unravelling in Golden State until Baron Davis left, and in Indianapolis, there was no strong team leadership there. Period.
 
RoyIsClutch07 said:
As tempting as it might be, I can't see the organization doing this.
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Maybe this would change their mind!

a15.jpg
 
hasoos said:
I can. And another reason I would consider doing it is because if we don't, somebody else that competes with us will. A lot of people seem to have forgotten that Jackson won a championship with San Antonio. He does fine if there is good team leadership to keep him in line. Things didn't start unravelling in Golden State until Baron Davis left, and in Indianapolis, there was no strong team leadership there. Period.
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I just don't think we would compromise our culture for him. He would def help but at what cost?

The other thing is, the last time we did trades for the sake of keeping players out of the competitors hands. It kind of bit us in the ass. Scottie Pippen, Dale Davis etc. Lakers were pursuing both and the blazers traded for both because they were worried the lakers would get them.

I say, just worry about yourselves. Make moves that's good for your organization.
 
hasoos said:
Right now it looks like several guys will get their shots to step up and show they can play this season. That signing of Howard is looking real smart right now. I actually think forcing Outlaw into the SF spot will be a real good thing. The Blazers always got punked on the boards with thei second unit in. Not anymore.
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I honestly think this is the wrong thing to do. You bring Rudy to the starting line-up, move Roy to SF - and in the 2nd unit you go with Miller, JB, Webster, Travis and Joel - and you implement a real run and gun offense. You can do it with a good defensive rebounder (Joel) and a PG that can push the tempo (Miller) playing small-ball (Travis at the 4). If there is no fastbreak opportunity, you still have one very good pick and roll player handling the ball (Miller) with a guy that can set good picks (Joel), 2 long-range shooters (Webster, Travis) and another guy that can start the pick and roll and attack the rim from the dribble (JB).

I like Howard - but I still think that Travis at the 4, especially in a fast unit (which we can do with a PG that does not turn the ball over just to please MARIS) is a bigger mismatch.
 
Man... this is why I've always been against our guys playing during the summer in the Olympics or the Euro tourneys and such. Those three months are for rest.
 
RoyIsClutch07 said:
I just don't think we would compromise our culture for him. He would def help but at what cost?

The other thing is, the last time we did trades for the sake of keeping players out of the competitors hands. It kind of bit us in the ass. Scottie Pippen, Dale Davis etc. Lakers were pursuing both and the blazers traded for both because they were worried the lakers would get them.

I say, just worry about yourselves. Make moves that's good for your organization.
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You view the Scottie Pippen thing as a bad move? Ok good luck with that.

Dale Davis was at the end of his career. Jackson is in the middle of his career. Big difference.

Lastly, this team could use some nasty on it. It is a well known fact Jackson hates Kobes guts. I would love to have some more of that on this team.
 
andalusian said:
I honestly think this is the wrong thing to do. You bring Rudy to the starting line-up, move Roy to SF - and in the 2nd unit you go with Miller, JB, Webster, Travis and Joel - and you implement a real run and gun offense. You can do it with a good defensive rebounder (Joel) and a PG that can push the tempo (Miller) playing small-ball (Travis at the 4). If there is no fastbreak opportunity, you still have one very good pick and roll player handling the ball (Miller) with a guy that can set good picks (Joel), 2 long-range shooters (Webster, Travis) and another guy that can start the pick and roll and attack the rim from the dribble (JB).

I like Howard - but I still think that Travis at the 4, especially in a fast unit (which we can do with a PG that does not turn the ball over just to please MARIS) is a bigger mismatch.
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Quit talking your crazy talk! And by Crazy talk, I of course mean the obvious direction things should be taken which is crazy to some...in coaching...named uh...Paging Mediocore Man...Paging Mediocore Man!
 
hasoos said:
You view the Scottie Pippen thing as a bad move? Ok good luck with that.

Dale Davis was at the end of his career. Jackson is in the middle of his career. Big difference.

Lastly, this team could use some nasty on it. It is a well known fact Jackson hates Kobes guts. I would love to have some more of that on this team.
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The Scottie Pippen move wasn't bad. But the Dale Davis move was. And we did both just to keep them off the lakers. In my mind, you don't build a team that way.
 
RoyIsClutch07 said:
The other thing is, the last time we did trades for the sake of keeping players out of the competitors hands. It kind of bit us in the ass. Scottie Pippen, Dale Davis etc. Lakers were pursuing both and the blazers traded for both because they were worried the lakers would get them.
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I don't think Blazers traded for either due to the Lakers pursuing them. Both were seen by Whitsitt as "consolidation trades." And the Pippen trade bit the Blazers in the ass? How do you figure? Pippen was one of the Blazers best players for the next few years and none of the players they dealt for him had noteworthy post-Blazers careers (they even got Plastic Man back).
 
Minstrel said:
I don't think Blazers traded for either due to the Lakers pursuing them. Both were seen by Whitsitt as "consolidation trades." And the Pippen trade bit the Blazers in the ass? How do you figure? Pippen was one of the Blazers best players for the next few years and none of the players they dealt for him had noteworthy post-Blazers careers (they even got Plastic Man back).
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Trading Jermaine Oneal for Dale Davis was a "consolidated move"?

There were reports at that time that Dale was being persued by the lakers. We know that lakers were pursuing Scottie before the blazers made the trade for him.
 
Idog1976 said:
Quit talking your crazy talk! And by Crazy talk, I of course mean the obvious direction things should be taken which is crazy to some...in coaching...named uh...Paging Mediocore Man...Paging Mediocore Man!
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Well, to be honest, if they bring Webster in the starting lineup - they can still go small-ball in the 2nd unit with Miller/JB/Rudy/Travis/Joel. I just think that Rudy is a smarter player than Webster and as such - using his passing smart (and better long range shooting) in the half-court first unit makes more sense than Webster, not to mention that playing small-ball with Webster at the 3 in the 2nd unit helps with defensive rebounding to start the breaks.

What I hope we do not see too much of is Travis at the 3 with Howard at the 4. This Batum injury opens minutes for someone. I just hope that someone is JB.
 
How interesting. Last year it was Webster that went down (when in the one pre-season game he played he looked good) and that allowed Batum to shine and endear himself to people.

This year, the roles are reversed. I have been a cautious Webster hopeful and it appears he is going to get his chance to either show that he has finally arrived (and is worth keeping) or he is throw in material in a trade.

Gramps...
 
RoyIsClutch07 said:
Trading Jermaine Oneal for Dale Davis was a "consolidated move"?

There were reports at that time that Dale was being persued by the lakers. We know that lakers were pursuing Scottie before the blazers made the trade for him.
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Well I hate to break it to you, but teams make moves to keep other elite teams from getting certain players all the time. I can sure as hell tell you that a lot of teams wish they had snagged Chauncey Billups from Detroit before Denver did. Or Pau Gasol before LA did. You stop either one of those moves from happening and both of those teams are the same old shit they were 2 years ago, and your team is that much better. Teams also add veterans to win a championship and fill in voids all the time. Miami added Walker, Payton, and Jason Williams. The Celtics filled out their roster with James Posey and Sam Cassel all for one ring. This scenario would not even be close to being the same as theirs, because Miami ended up paying a big price for their one ring. Years of a hollow team. Portland has their core for years to come. We do not have to worry about that.
 
hasoos said:
Well I hate to break it to you, but teams make moves to keep other elite teams from getting certain players all the time. I can sure as hell tell you that a lot of teams wish they had snagged Chauncey Billups from Detroit before Denver did. Or Pau Gasol before LA did. You stop either one of those moves from happening and both of those teams are the same old shit they were 2 years ago, and your team is that much better. Teams also add veterans to win a championship and fill in voids all the time. Miami added Walker, Payton, and Jason Williams. The Celtics filled out their roster with James Posey and Sam Cassel all for one ring. This scenario would not even be close to being the same as theirs, because Miami ended up paying a big price for their one ring. Years of a hollow team. Portland has their core for years to come. We do not have to worry about that.
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Bringing in a player is fine if it's going to help your cause. I think Chauncey would have done that for us. But there are players out there, that I wouldn't bring in just to keep them off of teams that we compete against. BTW, I'm not saying no to Stephen Jackson. I think he could help. I just don't buy into the idea that this organization would bring him in.
 
Fuck. After Oden and Miller, I was more looking forward to him playing than anyone else.

He's the one guy on the team we just don't have a replacement for--the defensive-minded perimeter role player.

Fuck.

I'm really wishing now that Roy had gone the other direction in weight this summer. At his current weight he's pretty undersized at SF. So you have to look at start Webster, who I really wasn't hoping for much this season.
 
out 3-5 months best case accodring to jay allen (from nic)

translation...

OUT FOR SEASON
 
RoyIsClutch07 said:
Trading Jermaine Oneal for Dale Davis was a "consolidated move"?
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Yes? Jermaine O'Neal had contributed nothing to the team at that point while Davis was considered a "proven double-double" player. I didn't like the move at the time, but Whitsitt was clearly trying to consolidate some unused potential into solid production.

There were reports at that time that Dale was being persued by the lakers. We know that lakers were pursuing Scottie before the blazers made the trade for him.
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The Lakers were already out of the Pippen pursuit by the time the Blazers traded for him. Phil Jackson and Jerry West wanted to add Pippen, but Jerry Buss nixed it because he didn't want to pay Pippen's salary. And the fact that the Lakers were interested in both players doesn't mean the Blazers traded for them due to the Lakers' interest. Hard as it may be to believe, multiple teams can be interested in the same available players.
 
If someone can find the "Webster broke his foot our season is over" thread from last year, I'll rep them.

We're a deep team and we'll be fine.
 
OSUBlazerfan said:
6-8 weeks? haha

its 4-6 months minimum
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Ah, one more thing to debate. :) Maybe it should be a poll? :)

I say Nico will be working out within 6 weeks and back on the court within 3 months. We'll have him back in games by the all-star break (or the next game after).

:cheers:
 
I wonder what would happen if Martell got injured again. Who would be our starting SF? Move to Rudy into the lineup at SG and Brandon to SF, or Travis into the lineup at SF?
 
Minstrel said:
Yes? Jermaine O'Neal had contributed nothing to the team at that point while Davis was considered a "proven double-double" player. I didn't like the move at the time, but Whitsitt was clearly trying to consolidate some unused potential into solid production..
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That's not a "consolidation" trade, though. Pippen clearly was a consolidation trade. The Dale Davis deal was to "win now" and actually further advanced the issue those teams had with finding PT for good players.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Man... this is why I've always been against our guys playing during the summer in the Olympics or the Euro tourneys and such. Those three months are for rest.
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Ditto. This is a big pet peeve for me. Nico and Rudy both are injured because of it, just as I've argued many times was the risk. I don't want our guys doing it, whether they are "representing" some fictional "USA Team" or any other "national" team.
 
hasoos said:
Lastly, this team could use some nasty on it. It is a well known fact Jackson hates Kobes guts. I would love to have some more of that on this team.
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Well then, why didn't some one say so sooner. Sign that bad boy up!
 
PapaG said:
That's not a "consolidation" trade, though. Pippen clearly was a consolidation trade. The Dale Davis deal was to "win now" and actually further advanced the issue those teams had with finding PT for good players.
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I was using the term "consolidation" more generally. Turning inefficiently-used parts into players that can more efficiently help the team. You're right that it's not what people generally mean when they use the term, but I was using it loosely to describe both deals...he was trying to consolidate little-used players into players he felt would have bigger impact on winning. In the case of Pippen, he consolidated multiple proven players into one proven player. In the case of Davis, he consolidated potential talent into proven talent.
 
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