Batum trade revisited

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Orion Bailey said:
Well for one, when restricted, he signed with a different team.... If that isnt a huge hint....
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Orion Bailey said:
Maybe to you, but to the majority of us, it seems fairly obvious. Read below.



That situation stunk and got messy real quick. Yes, there is a thing about letting your agent make you your money, but if a player really wants to be in a city, then you have your agent deal as such. He let is agent play us and we ended up giving him a few mill more than he was worth because of it.
I'm sorry, but that's a huge hint that he isn't loyal and could easily bolt when a free agent.
This is very real
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STOMP said:
yes, you've been ridiculous throughout this thread.

STOMP
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How are my above posts.. my initial posts to this, ridiculous?

.........................................................
 
Orion Bailey said:
Batum hasn't done any better this year than his replacements have.
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except had the trade not been made, Batum's minutes would have come 1-3 & he's played much better then Crabbe & Henderson. He's a better and more versatile defender and as many have noted would have brought another much needed ball handler/playmaker to the team's attack

so wrong again

STOMP
 
Signing an offer sheet isn't a hint about anything. Players sign offer sheets with other teams ALL THE TIME. This is not something unique to Nic.

Nic's agent definitely didn't handle the negotiation well. I chalk that up to Nic's agent, and not Nic shitting on Portland. I could be wrong, but I believe Nic's agent only had one NBA client (Nic), and was French. I can see how an agent who isn't familiar with the NBA, and whose first language isn't English, could mishandle the negotiation or where things are misconstrued due to cultural/language differences. The statements that were supposedly made by Nic sounded very much like what a blustering agent in a David v Goliath negotiation would tell his client to say, and not at all like anything Nic has ever said before or after those negotiations. Perhaps it could have been done more tactfully, but in the end Nic's agent did a great job for his client.
 
I'm glad we traded Batum and his many exasperating errors, caused by his insistence on incessantly dribbling and passing, slowing down the Stotts offense and preventing the guards from playmaking.

If Henderson doesn't leave this summer, it was a great trade. If he leaves, it was a necessary trade.
 
HCP said:
This statement is very wrong
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Yeah, to me it always felt to me that Batum was the most genuine when he says he loved everything about Portland.

I believe that Wes loved the fans, but it probably wasn't his favorite city.

Lopez's personality fit the city, but he never connected on an individual level.

Aldridge....well let's not even go there.

Batum really adopted Portland as a second home. Probably has something to do with it being the first US city he really lived in. He pretty much grew up here.
 
OKay, wow, so if i'm wrong, can someone please explain how consistently putting the summer games bball for your country ahead of the team that pays you is evidence he wants to stay here? I saw it as a slap in the face and many others posted the same feeling.

Again, yes his agent did a great job for him, but if Nic really wanted to be here he would have put his agent in check, no?

These, to me, are big signs he has no loyalty to Portland any more than a business arrangement.
 
Schilly said:
Hey remember when Nic Batum was a 20yo starter for us and gave us 5.4pts and 2.8reb in 18mpg... Now we have a 20 who has started much of the season and given us 3.6pts and 3.9reb in 14 mpg.
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Yeah I'm not bothered by Vonleh's readiness. You gotta buy and hold on him.
 
Orion Bailey said:
OKay, wow, so if i'm wrong, can someone please explain how consistently putting the summer games bball for your country ahead of the team that pays you is evidence he wants to stay here? I saw it as a slap in the face and many others posted the same feeling.

Again, yes his agent did a great job for him, but if Nic really wanted to be here he would have put his agent in check, no?

These, to me, are big signs he has no loyalty to Portland any more than a business arrangement.
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If the Euro league was the world's best league and all of the USA's best players played over there we would lose our minds if the Lebrons and Durants didn't play for Team USA.
 
Orion Bailey said:
OKay, wow, so if i'm wrong, can someone please explain how consistently putting the summer games bball for your country ahead of the team that pays you is evidence he wants to stay here? I saw it as a slap in the face and many others posted the same feeling.

Again, yes his agent did a great job for him, but if Nic really wanted to be here he would have put his agent in check, no?

These, to me, are big signs he has no loyalty to Portland any more than a business arrangement.
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You might be going overboard. He may have spent 7 years as a Trail Blazer, but he'd been a Frenchman his entire life. Unless he was disregarding directives from the Blazers FO not to play in France, it's disingenuous to suggest that representing his country somehow disrespected the franchise and/or indicated a desire to leave.
 
Orion Bailey said:
OKay, wow, so if i'm wrong, can someone please explain how consistently putting the summer games bball for your country ahead of the team that pays you is evidence he wants to stay here? I saw it as a slap in the face and many others posted the same feeling.

Again, yes his agent did a great job for him, but if Nic really wanted to be here he would have put his agent in check, no?

These, to me, are big signs he has no loyalty to Portland any more than a business arrangement.
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If you moved to another city, would you just stop repping the city you grew up in?

The dude is French. He's loyal to his country. For saying he's not loyal to a city he just happened to come to because of work and then bag him for being loyal to the country he was born in.... that makes no sense. I don't care if you're a fan of a team he's on... he has every right to play for his country. That's an honor. Here, its just work.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
You might be going overboard. He may have spent 7 years as a Trail Blazer, but he'd been a Frenchman his entire life. Unless he was disregarding directives from the Blazers FO not to play in France, it's disingenuous to suggest that representing his country somehow disrespected the franchise and/or indicated a desire to leave.
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Yeah, maybe I wasn't clear. It does sound overboard, but let me make these points to help even it out.

Many players play for their home country. Very few that I know of feel the effects like we visibly saw in Nic. Okay. Forgiven. He did it once and saw how it affects him. But then he did it again...That was the slap in the face to me. When he knew it would affect his play in the NBA and still did it. We pay him the big money.
The slap in the face was not that he played summer ball, it was that he did it over and over again when he knew it was hurting his game.

I'm sorry, maybe I hold it more personal than some, but My loyalty goes to those who pay my bills and then if I can get something done on the side, great, but if I took a part time evening job in my home country of Italy and it affects my performance here in the states... I would get my ass fired from my job for not being as productive...
Or I would be asked to quit Moonlighting.
Did the Blazers ever ask? Will we ever know?
 
Orion Bailey said:
Many players play for their home country. Very few that I know of feel the effects like we visibly saw in Nic. Okay. Forgiven. He did it once and saw how it affects him. But then he did it again...That was the slap in the face to me. When he knew it would affect his play in the NBA and still did it. We pay him the big money.
The slap in the face was not that he played summer ball, it was that he did it over and over again when he knew it was hurting his game.
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That's a bold statement to be making. But even if it was true, he wouldn't be the first player to do that. Yao comes to mind. Ginobili did it for the longest time.
 
B-Roy said:
That's a bold statement to be making. But even if it was true, he wouldn't be the first player to do that. Yao comes to mind. Ginobili did it for the longest time.
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Ahem - Derrick Rose?
And what if Paul George plays for Team USA after that horrible injury he got while playing for his country? Good thing Orion doesn't want George on our team, or he might be a hypocrite.
 
Strenuus said:
If you moved to another city, would you just stop repping the city you grew up in?

The dude is French. He's loyal to his country. For saying he's not loyal to a city he just happened to come to because of work and then bag him for being loyal to the country he was born in.... that makes no sense. I don't care if you're a fan of a team he's on... he has every right to play for his country. That's an honor. Here, its just work.
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I amended above

blue9 said:
Ahem - Derrick Rose?
And what if Paul George plays for Team USA after that horrible injury he got while playing for his country? Good thing Orion doesn't want George on our team, or he might be a hypocrite.
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Huh? WTF?

Id like PG on our team if its the right price. Has nothing to do with him playing for team USA. Would I want him to once he got here? Hell know. It did it already and it almost cost him his career. I hope he learned... unlike Nic.

Its not wrong to want to support your home country. It's wrong to continue to do so when it affects your ability to do your job... the one you actually get paid for...I cant believe more of you don't see that.

Not everyone has the sight though. ;)
 
Just because I don't LIKE my players playing for their countries, doesn't mean I think it's wrong of them to do it. I don't even like my players playing in the All-Star game, but I'm not gonna get my panties in a bunch when they exercize their right to do as they please and accept their honors and accolades.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Its not wrong to want to support your home country. It's wrong to continue to do so when it affects your ability to do your job... the one you actually get paid for...I cant believe more of you don't see that.
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To me, it's pretty ridiculous to suggest Batum is trying to play even when injured out there.

These guys are professional athletes with a lot of pride. Batum's in his mid 20s, he probably doesn't give a second thought to what he's doing to his body, he's just playing and supporting his country. Maybe in his 30s he'll look and say he could have rested more, but he would probably regret it more if he didn't do it.

Yao said the same thing. Playing for China and especially in the Olympics in Beijing probably cost him his career, but he said he would have done it all over again if he could.

And just for the record, there are three players on our team that are playing for their national teams: Harkless, Aminu, and Dame (well, he's trying).
 
Orion Bailey said:
I amended above



Huh? WTF?

Id like PG on our team if its the right price. Has nothing to do with him playing for team USA. Would I want him to once he got here? Hell know. It did it already and it almost cost him his career. I hope he learned... unlike Nic.

Its not wrong to want to support your home country. It's wrong to continue to do so when it affects your ability to do your job... the one you actually get paid for...I cant believe more of you don't see that.

Not everyone has the sight though. ;)
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Why does he have to be loyal to us? Because of money? That seems to be disingenuous to me. Work is work, but family is family. At the end of the day, your country (home, family) is more important than your job. At least it should be. I have no issues with it. I love the Blazers, but remember that these people are humans and have their own agendas.

I would much rather have Batum be tired because of working for his country and being prideful to his country, than having Harden, who wrecks his body clubbing and being around kardashians.
 
blue9 said:
Just because I don't LIKE my players playing for their countries, doesn't mean I think it's wrong of them to do it. I don't even like my players playing in the All-Star game, but I'm not gonna get my panties in a bunch when they exercize their right to do as they please and accept their honors and accolades.
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Again..;. ( keeps being missed apparently)

One time? no problem with it. I would actually support and like it. Helps the Blazers name if anything.
Over and over while injury ridden and giving your paycheck team less than 100% for over half the time there?
I have a problem with that.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Again..;. ( keeps being missed apparently)

One time? no problem with it. I would actually support and like it. Helps the Blazers name if anything.
Over and over while injury ridden and giving your paycheck team less than 100% for over half the time there?
I have a problem with that.
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Yes, YOU have a problem. The problem is with you, not Nic.
I didn't like it either - but it's not my problem.
You keep coming back to the paycheck, as if that is what buys loyalty. Basically you're saying you're a mercenary.
 
B-Roy said:
Do you have a link to the 32 max contract slots? Just curious who were bidding against this year.
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Every team except for the Clippers, Cavs, Spurs, Warriors could have max cap room. Some of those teams such as the Warriors could get max cap room with a couple simple moves as the Spurs did last summer. The 6ers, Magic, Mavs, Lakers, Celtics all have room for two max free agents. The Wizards, Rockets, Nets, Hornets, and us could have two max slots with one or two moves such as us trading away Aminu.

We're basically bidding against every team in the league.
 
Strenuus said:
Why does he have to be loyal to us? Because of money? That seems to be disingenuous to me. Work is work, but family is family. At the end of the day, your country (home, family) is more important than your job. At least it should be. I have no issues with it. I love the Blazers, but remember that these people are humans and have their own agendas.

I would much rather have Batum be tired because of working for his country and being prideful to his country, than having Harden, who wrecks his body clubbing and being around kardashians.
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Well I have been told by more than one employee my work ethic is unparalleled. Maybe I'm expecting too much, but ive done that with fellow employees all my life too. Helps me excel anywhere i'm at, but working with others is tougher because I give more than everyone else, and don't understand why no one else is.

Good points. This makes sense to me and now I understand.

Wasn't trying to be ridiculous... its how i'm wired.

Thanks for explaining Stren.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Again..;. ( keeps being missed apparently)

One time? no problem with it. I would actually support and like it. Helps the Blazers name if anything.
Over and over while injury ridden and giving your paycheck team less than 100% for over half the time there?
I have a problem with that.
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Money doesn't govern loyalty. Nor should it. His loyalty lies with his country, whom he works for free. I find that refreshing.
 
Strenuus said:
Money doesn't govern loyalty. Nor should it. His loyalty lies with his country, whom he works for free. I find that refreshing.
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I just figured with that type of money, it should come with a loyalty tag.
 
I was never a huge fan of Batum but I have to say I would not have been upset if we had kept him for this year, even if we were to lose him this summer anyways. Henderson is decent but we probably won't re-sign him and although Vonleh is young and has potential, he's not a rare prospect. I do think it's almost a certainty that we would have been even better this season if we had Batum instead of Henderson and Vonleh.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
I was never a huge fan of Batum but I have to say I would not have been upset if we had kept him for this year, even if we were to lose him this summer anyways. Henderson is decent but we probably won't re-sign him and although Vonleh is young and has potential, he's not a rare prospect. I do think it's almost a certainty that we would have been even better this season if we had Batum instead of Henderson and Vonleh.
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But if we were going to lose Batum at the end of the season, what would the point of "being better with him" have been?
 
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