Batum: worth the money or....... (1 Viewer)

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
The only thing Batum lacks is the 'drive' to make himself a 'threat' whenever he is touching the ball or moving off-ball. IF he would just make defenders PAY when he catches the ball (more than just behind the arc) then he's a 20pt a game guy who spreads the floor. He needs to be included into the offense more is all.

If we would use him less of a point-forward (aka Lebron) and move him off ball behind screens he could:

* Catch lobs at the rim and pack it down (hes got length and a vert)
* Catch at the corner off a screen and fake a 3, drive baseline for Dunk or handoff to Rolo when help D comes
* Play the elbow like LA does (only on the right side) and back down a guy either making a move or pass out to Wes/Dame for open 3/Cut to the rim
* Pick and Roll (not pop) and pressure the D to foul him at the rim (he's a great FT guy so more drives less pull ups where he hardly gets fouled)

This is in ADDITION to him playing point-forward which he can do well...we get the scoring output we need...we keep the defense guessing where the threat is coming from. There were WAY TO MANY times during the season and playoffs when Batum would catch the ball and his EYES screamed "I'm not going to score"...this allowed defense to slack off a bit and watch for cutters...it became 4 on 5. Not that he is the only guy that does this but if he isn't appearing to be looking to score whenever he has the ball he'll be right where he is.

I also want to see him ABSORB the roll of a "Second Chance Guy". Crash the boards, box out...look for putbacks and extra possessions. If we just COMMITTED to playing Rolo, Batum and 1 other (Wes is a good choice) to NO MATTER WHAT crash the board after every shot...I think we win out more than we lose if we dont get that rebound and the other team leaks out and fast breaks on us.

His pace-of-play is like watching cross-country runners...space it out, conserve energy and keep a steady pace all game. Cut 5 mins a game from his total time and tell him to T-rob it up and go all Beast out there when he is in. I want Batum SPRINTING out there....calling for the ball....not sure what that sounds like in Angry French but it's got to be pretty badass so Scream it up and look to drive. Clyde 2.0...he _can_ make it happen. But he needs to be pushed to do this...it doesn't seem like he will self-jockey and whip himself into doing this.
 
Prue said:
The only thing Batum lacks is the 'drive' to make himself a 'threat' whenever he is touching the ball or moving off-ball. IF he would just make defenders PAY when he catches the ball (more than just behind the arc) then he's a 20pt a game guy who spreads the floor. He needs to be included into the offense more is all.

If we would use him less of a point-forward (aka Lebron) and move him off ball behind screens he could:

* Catch lobs at the rim and pack it down (hes got length and a vert)
* Catch at the corner off a screen and fake a 3, drive baseline for Dunk or handoff to Rolo when help D comes
* Play the elbow like LA does (only on the right side) and back down a guy either making a move or pass out to Wes/Dame for open 3/Cut to the rim
* Pick and Roll (not pop) and pressure the D to foul him at the rim (he's a great FT guy so more drives less pull ups where he hardly gets fouled)

This is in ADDITION to him playing point-forward which he can do well...we get the scoring output we need...we keep the defense guessing where the threat is coming from. There were WAY TO MANY times during the season and playoffs when Batum would catch the ball and his EYES screamed "I'm not going to score"...this allowed defense to slack off a bit and watch for cutters...it became 4 on 5. Not that he is the only guy that does this but if he isn't appearing to be looking to score whenever he has the ball he'll be right where he is.

I also want to see him ABSORB the roll of a "Second Chance Guy". Crash the boards, box out...look for putbacks and extra possessions. If we just COMMITTED to playing Rolo, Batum and 1 other (Wes is a good choice) to NO MATTER WHAT crash the board after every shot...I think we win out more than we lose if we dont get that rebound and the other team leaks out and fast breaks on us.

His pace-of-play is like watching cross-country runners...space it out, conserve energy and keep a steady pace all game. Cut 5 mins a game from his total time and tell him to T-rob it up and go all Beast out there when he is in. I want Batum SPRINTING out there....calling for the ball....not sure what that sounds like in Angry French but it's got to be pretty badass so Scream it up and look to drive. Clyde 2.0...he _can_ make it happen. But he needs to be pushed to do this...it doesn't seem like he will self-jockey and whip himself into doing this.
Click to expand...

I agree with a lot of this. But I would point to two different things that most "stand in the way" of him becoming the player you describe.

1 - His ball-handling. It's the one skill of his that is - at best - only adequate. If he could develop better ball-handling skills that would go a long way towards making him more of an offensive threat. Despite this short-coming he's still quite adept at scoring the ball. But as it sits he can't get by a defender who is locked into him - though he still does a pretty good job of creating a scoring opportunity for Rolo in these situations.

2 - He is the most "team first" guy we've ever had on our team. He's not going to "self-jockey" to gain more of a role than the coach has assigned him. He's always going to do what the coach asks him to do. This is a two-edged sword. If we had a coach like Pops you want players like Batum because the coach will get the absolute most out of him. But unfortunately there's only one Pops. Stotts has done a good job of tapping into more of Nic's natural abilities than Nate ever did. But Stotts is bound and determined to run our offense through the least effective shot on the court, so Nic will largely stay on the perimeter and will get a handful of opportunities per game to run the offense.
 
Last edited:
craigehlo said:
Batum isn't an elite player. You pay guys like LA and Lillard to stick around. You can get a 15.86 PER SF via trade or free agency every year. The problem with Batum is that his contract was paid in the assumption that his improvement would continue. Unfortunately for the team his PER peaked at 17.32 in 11-12 and hasn't been near since.
Click to expand...

If you don't get it, it's not worth explaining to you.
 
DaLong said:
Scoring is directly proportional to PER. If he was our main scorer at 25 PPG his PER would be nearly 25.

I'm not concerned, am completely happy with what he does, and hope he's a Blazer for life.
Click to expand...
Yeah, what he said.

Or she said.

Well, somebody damn well better have said it...
 
craigehlo said:
Overpaying role players doesn't need to be explained.
Click to expand...

Role players might fit one or two roles. Batum might be the best "role player" in the league because he can score, rebound, pass, defend, and run an offense.

As BC pointed out, only two other players in the entire league averaged as many points, rebounds, and assists as Batum last year (Durant and Noah). So how exactly is he a "role player" when he's doing something that only two All-Stars are doing?

You need to stop looking at his points and PER because both of those are predicated on shooting the ball and shooting the ball well. Batum is not a primary scorer. I'm sure if he decided to jack up 15-20 shots a game he'd get you your 18-20 points you want so badly though.
 
PapaG said:
Scoring is not directly proportional to PER. That said, I think Nic and LMA get excessive criticism on this board.
Click to expand...

The Blazers didn't win a title this year. Somebody must be blamed and punished.

Go Blazers
 
PapaG said:
Scoring is not directly proportional to PER. That said, I think Nic and LMA get excessive criticism on this board.
Click to expand...

http://bkref.com/tiny/zOH46

Only one forward has had a PER > 20 (~all star level) and scored less than 15 PPG (third option approx.) in 30 minutes of gameplay, and if you notice he barely accomplished this. Seems like PPG is a pretty good indication of PER, especially for forwards.

Here's Nic's best PER season in relation to other forwards, where the lowest PPG/PER ratio are two of the best role players of the past decade (AK and Serge):
http://bkref.com/tiny/PvsxY
The study would be better using career values but I'm packing and need to head out.
 
craigehlo said:
Among SFs in the playoffs, he was ranked 11th in PER. Behind dudes like Paul "Old Man" Pierce, Chandler Parsons, Trevor Ariza and Draymond Greene.

He did rank slightly higher than Andrei Kirilenko (14.57 vs 14.43), so he does have that going for him and his 11 million.
Click to expand...

Good stats. Repped.
 
According to ESPN, this past season the top 15 SF's by salary were:

1 Carmelo Anthony, New York Knicks, $21,388,953
2 LeBron James, Miami Heat, $19,067,500
3 Rudy Gay, Toronto Raptors, $17,888,932
4 Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City Thunder, $17,832,627
5 Paul Pierce, Brooklyn Nets, $15,333,334
6 Luol Deng, Cleveland Cavaliers, $14,275,000
7 Josh Smith, Detroit Pistons, $13,500,000
8 Andre Iguodala, Golden State Warriors, $12,868,632
9 Tyreke Evans, New Orleans Pelicans, $11,796,247
10 Nicolas Batum, Portland Trail Blazers, $11,295,250
11 Richard Jefferson, Utah Jazz, $11,046,000
12 Danilo Gallinari, Denver Nuggets, $10,146,925
13 Gerald Wallace, Boston Celtics, $10,105,855
14 Shawn Marion, Dallas Mavericks, $9,316,796
15 Jeff Green, Boston Celtics, $8,700,000

On that list, I'd say that James and Durant are clearly the most dominant players and are underpaid compared to the worth they bring their teams. Anthony's a good player, but no way did he bring $21M of value to the Knicks this season. I'd say Gay, Pierce, Deng, Smith, Iguodala, Jefferson, Gallinari, Wallace, Marion & Green all failed to live up to their contract values in terms of what they brought their teams. I'd say Batum is in the right general neighborhood for salary by comparison.

Compared to almost any real world job, all of these guys are grossly overpaid, IMHO. That said, these players have a tremendous skill and they can make their teams a ton of money. The best players are all underpaid on their rookie contracts and then, if they live up to their rookie billing, hit it big on their next contract. Nic's in that situation. Nobody held a gun to PA's head and made him match what the T'Wolves offered.
 
Minstrel said:
Paul George? I like Batum, but I think George is a lot better.

I think Batum is somewhat better than Ariza, though. It'll be interesting to see what Ariza gets this off-season. I think Batum is on a par with someone like Kawhi Leonard. I think Leonard will get a similar payday to Batum (well, similar after adjusting for the inevitable inflation) once he finishes his rookie contract.
Click to expand...

Leonard is a lock to get the max or very close to it.
 
craigehlo said:
Batum should be making Ariza money, around 7.5 mil, for his contributions. Unfortunately his ridiculous contract is going to get some mid-tier SFs like Parsons and Hayward really big contracts this summer.
Click to expand...

Ariza will be making a lot more than Ariza money this summer, 8 figures per season at least. There are a dozen teams with max cap room and no stud free agents. If Al Jefferson can get $14 million Ariza is a lock to get over $10.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Role players might fit one or two roles. Batum might be the best "role player" in the league because he can score, rebound, pass, defend, and run an offense.

As BC pointed out, only two other players in the entire league averaged as many points, rebounds, and assists as Batum last year (Durant and Noah). So how exactly is he a "role player" when he's doing something that only two All-Stars are doing?

You need to stop looking at his points and PER because both of those are predicated on shooting the ball and shooting the ball well. Batum is not a primary scorer. I'm sure if he decided to jack up 15-20 shots a game he'd get you your 18-20 points you want so badly though.
Click to expand...

Go for it Batum it worked for LA most of the people on here did not care he shot a career worst cause he scored a career high. Shut up all the haters Nic and give us those 18 shots a game.
 
cmeese47 said:
Manu is old and took less money out of loyalty and respect to the team. He certainly could have gotten more somewhere else if he wanted. Batum sought max money not the best situation.
Click to expand...

I don't but it. People are saying the Spurs players "accepted" pay cuts but what team was going to pay them more? Manu was coming off a terrible postseason and signing a contract until he was 37 years old. I don't believe any team was interested in paying him more than $7 million last summer. Remember he was making over $14 million the season prior when he was 35 years old. If he really wanted this big discount to win why didn't he play for less back then? Tim Duncan "accepted" $10 million just like Garnett but that was after a few years of being limited by injuries. Teams weren't offering a 36year old declining Duncan max money.

Yes these two hall of famers have played amazing this last year, but it wasn't expected back when they were negotiating contracts. Its a totally different situation than what LeBron or Melo are entering this offseason.
 
Draco said:
Ariza will be making a lot more than Ariza money this summer, 8 figures per season at least. There are a dozen teams with max cap room and no stud free agents. If Al Jefferson can get $14 million Ariza is a lock to get over $10.
Click to expand...
Unless he folds up like a cheap suit next season.

Which I find HIGHLY unlikely, by the way...
 
Minstrel said:
You can't get above average wings with defensive value via trade or free agency every year; especially not cheaply as you seem to be implying.
Click to expand...

Some fans are freaking delusional. Batum is a quality starter, those are hard to find. Look how much the Heat would've loved to have a quality starter on that squad. They had to start a 38 year old RAY ALLEN and a decade past his prime Rashard Lewis! Wing position is the scarcest position in the NBA. Some fans view rosters as though its 1997.
 
Last edited:
This came out about a week ago so old news but didn't see it posted:

Scott Howard-Cooper: Talked with Nic Batum on Mon. He said offseason workouts have focused on developing a post game. Considers it part of taking the next step. Twitter @SHowardCooper
 
That's great. Thanks for posting it.
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
This came out about a week ago so old news but didn't see it posted:

Scott Howard-Cooper: Talked with Nic Batum on Mon. He said offseason workouts have focused on developing a post game. Considers it part of taking the next step. Twitter @SHowardCooper
Click to expand...
Nice!
I know he worked on ball-handling last summer - and I'm sure he'll work on everything this summer - but I hope that's also a major area of focus. I don't know if ball-handling is just one of those things that his mind/body won't ever excel at, but IMO it's the #1 roadblock to total dominance.
 
When Batum gets a matchup advantage, he should be able to kill posting up, or pass to a shooter.
 
It would be good to see him get comfortable taking advantage of small, poor defenders. Kind of an odd situation because as soon as he learns that skill teams won't switch their PG onto him and it'll become an irrelevant part of his game.

But not having that basic post game has been a weakness at times.
 
Draco said:
It would be good to see him get comfortable taking advantage of small, poor defenders. Kind of an odd situation because as soon as he learns that skill teams won't switch their PG onto him and it'll become an irrelevant part of his game.

But not having that basic post game has been a weakness at times.
Click to expand...
If a team can't switch the PG onto him, then that PG will need to guard Damian or Wes, which will in turn make their lives a little easier. While it may become an irrelevant part of Nic's game, it'll make the team as a whole much more effective...
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
This came out about a week ago so old news but didn't see it posted:

Scott Howard-Cooper: Talked with Nic Batum on Mon. He said offseason workouts have focused on developing a post game. Considers it part of taking the next step. Twitter @SHowardCooper
Click to expand...

Wish he'd work on creating his own shot
 
Hopefully these moves will be quick post moves. (as opposed to just backing his man down) I would love to see quick cuts to the basket without the ball, receiving a pass and then the quick post move. Nic is long enough that he should be able to do that against more than just smaller PGs.
 
Prince turned into a very reliable post scorer in Detroit. They're already similar offensively .

I like this.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Fez Hammersticks
Has LMA reached his ceiling?
2
Replies
51
Views
3K
LittleAlex
L
PapaG
Batum - 21 PER After 8 Games
Replies
10
Views
585
THE HCP
THE HCP
TowelBoy
Choose your Batum
Replies
22
Views
1K
illmatic99
illmatic99
42N8Bounce
Blazers Mid-Season Grades and Awards
2
Replies
46
Views
2K
blue9
blue9
Fez Hammersticks
Make the case for Triston Thompson
Replies
0
Views
259
Fez Hammersticks
Fez Hammersticks

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top