Bayless traded to NO

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Minstrel said:
Bayless both improved a lot more than Telfair, from year 1 to year 2, but was also just a better player in his second year.

My take on this trade is that I'm underwhelmed. I don't think Bayless is a future star, but I think he has the talent to be an above-average starter. I don't view a mid-first round pick to be have that kind of expected value. Further, Portland has proven able to buy such picks for straight cash before, so this seems like little more than a dump to me. Disappointing to me, but we'll see how it all plays out.
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They might be able to combined cash and this pick to move up further than they might otherwise be able too.
 
Darkwebs said:
I wonder if this trade was made to appease Rudy a little bit. The dumping of Bayless means a few more minutes for Fernandez.
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I doubt it had anything to do with "appeasing" anybody. Rudy has played really well in the pre-season so if he gets minutes it's because he's earned them with Bayless here or not. What this really tells me is that they made a sizable financial commitment to Wesley Matthews and they fully intend to get maximum value for all that money spent.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I think when it was thought to be lotto protected it wasn't so good, when went to top 7 (and then top 8) that makes it much more likely that we'll actually get a late lotto guy if New Orleans is even remotely competitive (ie. 30 wins or so).
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It'd be just our luck they'd finish with the 9th pick and win the lotto!
 
Good move/bad negotiating.

If Nate can keep the rookies on the bench, we have an extremely knowledgable, highly skilled, physically powerful guard quartet. Maybe the most complete in the league. But only if Nate plays them.

Sucks that The Choad has no trade skilz and got hosed.
 
MARIS61 said:
Good move/bad negotiating.

If Nate can keep the rookies on the bench, we have an extremely knowledgable, highly skilled, physically powerful guard quartet. Maybe the most complete in the league. But only if Nate plays them.

Sucks that The Choad has no trade skilz and got hosed.
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Haha, that's actually pretty good. :grin:
 
I agree with Hollinger's assessment and absolutely love this trade.

Bayless was not a PG. We had three SG's that were better than him on the roster. We got a decent return and another roster spot.
 
Charcoal Filtered said:
I agree with Hollinger's assessment and absolutely love this trade.

Bayless was not a PG. We had three SG's that were better than him on the roster. We got a decent return and another roster spot.
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But hasn't the debate all along been whether or not we need a conventional point guard? If anything, a lot of us liked Bayless because we felt he could play with Roy, and we didn't really give him enough time to prove otherwise.
 
I love Hollingers take.

Perhaps, Cho is a little better at utilizing trade assets than Pritchard was. A great talent to have as a GM, its not just about finding talent.
 
AND it looks like Johnson beat him out for 2nd string PG after all...
 
Natebishop3 said:
But hasn't the debate all along been whether or not we need a conventional point guard? If anything, a lot of us liked Bayless because we felt he could play with Roy, and we didn't really give him enough time to prove otherwise.
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I think we gave him plenty of time to prove otherwise.

His outside shot has never been consistent.

With his arms being so short, he was never going to be a stellar defender.

Teams figured out how to defend his drives to the basket.

It is year three and just about every other guard on the team has better passing skills.

I also have said we have far too many projects on the team.

Am even more excited to see the game Tuesday!
 
with a new coach, and paul wanting out and supposedly out of shape right now NO is going to suck balls this year. i see them as mid lotto at best, so reasonable chance at pick 8-9 which would be great. if we're trading the pick soon none of that matters obviously.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I don't know.... does it really? How do the minutes break down between Johnson, Matthews and Rudy?
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I don't think Johnson will get many minutes, this season. Despite having a pretty good pre-season, he is still a rookie after all and will probably make rookie mistakes that McMillan doesn't have the patience for.
 
Natebishop3 said:
But hasn't the debate all along been whether or not we need a conventional point guard? If anything, a lot of us liked Bayless because we felt he could play with Roy, and we didn't really give him enough time to prove otherwise.
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I think the conclusion some came to (I did at least) was that Brandon needed Steve Blake on steroids next to him, not Jarret Jack on steroids. That is: a backcourt mate who can defend and stretch the defense with his long ball. Miller and Roy coexist to the extent they do, because Miller is a pretty nifty passer and can actually get Brandon the ball in spots where he can score, Jerryd never had that element of his game going for him -- he's effectively Andre Miller without the passing.
 
Darkwebs said:
I don't think Johnson will get many minutes, this season. Despite having a pretty good pre-season, he is still a rookie after all and will probably make rookie mistakes that McMillan doesn't have the patience for.
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Nic Batum would like a word with you. Granted his opportunity came because of a Martell injury, but he still beat out Travis for the starting gig and got those minutes and opportunities as a rookie because he could immediately defend and make the smart play. If Armon can defend and consistently make the right play he'll get minutes. Probably no more than 10-15 a night, but he'll get them.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I think the conclusion some came to (I did at least) was that Brandon needed Steve Blake on steroids next to him, not Jarret Jack on steroids. That is: a backcourt mate who can defend and stretch the defense with his long ball. Miller and Roy coexist to the extent they do, because Miller is a pretty nifty passer and can actually get Brandon the ball in spots where he can score, Jerryd never had that element of his game going for him -- he's effectively Andre Miller without the passing.
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Ok, that's fine... I guess what worries me is whether a draft pick is worth more than Bayless in a package deal. We don't know where the pick will be, so it's hard to quantify the value of that pick. I suspect there will be some good deals available before the deadline because of the pending lockout. If we're aiming for a Steve Blake on steroids, what is that going to take? An expiring and..... what?
 
Nikolokolus said:
Nic Batum would like a word with you. Granted his opportunity came because of a Martell injury, but he still beat out Travis for the starting gig and got those minutes and opportunities as a rookie because he could immediately defend and make the smart play. If Armon can defend and consistently make the right play he'll get minutes. Probably no more than 10-15 a night, but he'll get them.
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Okay, fair enough. I guess just being a rookie won't hold Johnson back, if he's able to make the right plays and play some hard-nosed defense like you siad. However, his outside shot is spotty, so he won't be ideal next to Roy in the backcourt. I think Nate will use a 4 guard rotation consisting of Dre, Roy, Matthews, and Rudy (with the latter three guys also seeing minutes at the SF position when Batum rests). Armon will probably get 5 minutes here and there, but I don't think he will be part of the regular rotation.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Ok, that's fine... I guess what worries me is whether a draft pick is worth more than Bayless in a package deal. We don't know where the pick will be, so it's hard to quantify the value of that pick. I suspect there will be some good deals available before the deadline because of the pending lockout. If we're aiming for a Steve Blake on steroids, what is that going to take? An expiring and..... what?
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I guess it would all boil down to whether or not somebody likes Jerryd as a prospect. I would pose the question this way: If you were another team's GM what would you prefer? An undersized slashing guard who struggles with his jumpshot and has a little bit of tunnel vision but can get to the line a lot or a mystery meat tenth overall pick that can be ... well it could be anything. A lot depends on the final value of the pick, but in certain respects the pick that Jerryd's trade represents could be easier to package into a trade this season because it carries no salary weight in a trade. Frankly the time to trade the pick might be the pre-february deadline while it's still mystery meat and not locked into any particular slot.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I guess it would all boil down to whether or not somebody likes Jerryd as a prospect. I would pose the question this way: If you were another team's GM what would you prefer? An undersized slashing guard who struggles with his jumpshot and has a little bit of tunnel vision but can get to the line a lot or a mystery meat tenth overall pick that can be ... well it could be anything. A lot depends on the final value of the pick, but in certain respects the pick that Jerryd's trade represents could be easier to package into a trade this season because it carries no salary weight in a trade. Frankly the time to trade the pick might be the pre-february deadline while it's still mystery meat and not locked into any particular slot.
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It would be just our luck if New Orleans is one of the top four teams in the west.
 
Darkwebs said:
Okay, fair enough. I guess just being a rookie won't hold Johnson back, if he's able to make the right plays and play some hard-nosed defense like you siad. However, his outside shot is spotty, so he won't be ideal next to Roy in the backcourt. I think Nate will use a 4 guard rotation consisting of Dre, Roy, Matthews, and Rudy (with the latter three guys also seeing minutes at the SF position when Batum rests). Armon will probably get 5 minutes here and there, but I don't think he will be part of the regular rotation.
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It's totally possible. I'm not saying Armon for sure will get minutes, he just has an opportunity to succeed or fail.
 
Shooter said:
Give me a break. Should we have kept him as long as we did Webster, who never got any better?? Or as long as Outlaw, who also never really developed? I credit the Blazers for learning when to cut their losses.
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I was agreeing with you, man. I think the team should cut their losses if a player never fulfills expectations within a month. A month is plenty. Do we want to wait as long as we did with Webster? Or with Outlaw?

We're agreeing.

Bayless had two years to show something, and he simply didn't show very much.
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Actually, he was a roughly average player in his second year. For a 22 year old, that's quite a lot to show.

But again, we're on the same wavelength. He hadn't proven to be a star, and we don't want to wait as long as did with Webster.
 
Nikolokolus said:
Yes that would suck ...
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I just think that Cho is really rolling the dice on this one. It might pay off. I mean, I wouldn't hate a top 10 pick. Wade was picked in the top 10. Quality players can be had at that number, but any team with Chris Paul has a legit shot at making the playoffs. I'm not as convinced that this is a no-brainer as some people, but I can understand the reasoning.
 
Natebishop3 said:
It would be just our luck if New Orleans is one of the top four teams in the west.
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I guess Cho is a gambling man. If the Hornets are one of the 4 top teams in the West, that's essentially dumping Bayless for nothing (not taking into consideration the financial benefits of this move).
 
Minstrel said:
I was agreeing with you, man. I think the team should cut their losses if a player never fulfills expectations within a month. A month is plenty. Do we want to wait as long as we did with Webster? Or with Outlaw?

We're agreeing.



Actually, he was a roughly average player in his second year. For a 22 year old, that's quite a lot to show.

But again, we're on the same wavelength. He hadn't proven to be a star, and we don't want to wait as long as did with Webster.
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Don't worry Minstrel, I already put his line of reasoning to bed without any dinner. :bgrin:
 
Natebishop3 said:
I just think that Cho is really rolling the dice on this one. It might pay off. I mean, I wouldn't hate a top 10 pick. Wade was picked in the top 10. Quality players can be had at that number, but any team with Chris Paul has a legit shot at making the playoffs. I'm not as convinced that this is a no-brainer as some people, but I can understand the reasoning.
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Wade was picked 5th. The best (unlikely) we can do on this trade is the 8th pick. Was Bayless' trade value that low?
 
Natebishop3 said:
I just think that Cho is really rolling the dice on this one. It might pay off. I mean, I wouldn't hate a top 10 pick. Wade was picked in the top 10. Quality players can be had at that number, but any team with Chris Paul has a legit shot at making the playoffs. I'm not as convinced that this is a no-brainer as some people, but I can understand the reasoning.
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What would you predict the Hornet's record to be? They look like a fringe playoff team to me with a lot of new faces, not much bench depth and Paul potentially wanting out of there sooner rather than later. There's always a gamble in trading a player for a pick, but I'd call it a calculated gamble.
 
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