Bayless traded to NO

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for whatever reason Bayless never fully seized the opportunity put before him.

He improved massively from year 1 to year 2 and put up a 14+ PER as a 22 year old. What was your standard for "full seizing" the opportunity? Becoming a star by year 2?

Not feeling he's a fit in the system is one thing. Acting like he was given tons of time and kept on failing and any more time spent would have been futile is silly. He has neither been given lots of time, nor has he been failing.
 
What would you predict the Hornet's record to be? They look like a fringe playoff team to me with a lot of new faces, not much bench depth and Paul potentially wanting out of there sooner rather than later. There's always a gamble in trading a player for a pick, but I'd call it a calculated gamble.

Yeah, but even as a fringe playoff team, the pick wouldn't be very good. What we NEED is a complete meltdown, and I don't know if I see Monty allowing that. I guess it's possible if Paul is either injured (very possible) or traded (also very possible) that they implode this year. I think they blow the team up if they trade Paul. I wouldn't be surprised if West is traded as well. What we need is for them to blow it up, otherwise I think we'll see a late lotto - mid first rounder.
 
He improved massively from year 1 to year 2 and put up a 14+ PER as a 22 year old. What was your standard for "full seizing" the opportunity? Becoming a star by year 2?

Not feeling he's a fit in the system is one thing. Acting like he was given tons of time and kept on failing and any more time spent would have been futile is silly. He has neither been given lots of time, nor has he been failing.

It's all about fit. The opportunities in front of him on this team, were mostly point guard related, not slashing two guard with the ability to rack up a ton of fouls shots, but maybe not a whole lot else.
 
He improved massively from year 1 to year 2 and put up a 14+ PER as a 22 year old. What was your standard for "full seizing" the opportunity? Becoming a star by year 2?

Not feeling he's a fit in the system is one thing. Acting like he was given tons of time and kept on failing and any more time spent would have been futile is silly. He has neither been given lots of time, nor has he been failing.

This is really the heart of my complaint about this trade. Bayless hardly played his rookie season, and really showed some improvement in his second year. I was looking forward to this year, and seeing whether Bayless could continue to improve. I guess we'll have to see from afar...
 
It's all about fit. The opportunities in front of him on this team, were mostly point guard related

Most people are clamoring for Andre Miller to either be benched, traded or shot because he's a true point guard stealing the ball from Roy.

Most people are glad to be rid of Bayless because he's not a true point guard.

So we want a point guard who has proper point guard skills who won't handle the ball much. Okay...
 
Most people are clamoring for Andre Miller to either be benched, traded or shot because he's a true point guard stealing the ball from Roy.

Most people are glad to be rid of Bayless because he's not a true point guard.

So we want a point guard who has proper point guard skills who won't handle the ball much. Okay...

Steve Blake on steroids!!! :devilwink:
 
With the potential of a lockout, how does that affect this summer's draft. Does the old CBA apply to this year's draft or will it be subject to the new CBA?
 
Most people are clamoring for Andre Miller to either be benched, traded or shot because he's a true point guard stealing the ball from Roy.

Most people are glad to be rid of Bayless because he's not a true point guard.

So we want a point guard who has proper point guard skills who won't handle the ball much. Okay...

Well I like Miller, so I guess now you're conflating my position with people I don't agree with.
 
Well I like Miller, so I guess now you're conflating my position with people I don't agree with.

My impression was that you were one of the people advocating dropping Miller (either from the team or starting spot) in favor of a "Steve Blake on steroids" or somesuch. Was it someone else who used that term?
 
Yeah, but even as a fringe playoff team, the pick wouldn't be very good. What we NEED is a complete meltdown, and I don't know if I see Monty allowing that. I guess it's possible if Paul is either injured (very possible) or traded (also very possible) that they implode this year. I think they blow the team up if they trade Paul. I wouldn't be surprised if West is traded as well. What we need is for them to blow it up, otherwise I think we'll see a late lotto - mid first rounder.

Yep, we need the Hornets to suck this year. But it's a double-edged sword. If they suck too badly, then they will get to keep their top-7 pick and we are left waiting for next year's pick, which will have even more protection on it. So Blazer fans, we must all root for the Hornets to lose, but not too much. :lol:
 
My impression was that you were one of the people advocating dropping Miller (either from the team or starting spot) in favor of a "Steve Blake on steroids" or somesuch. Was it someone else who used that term?

I think that would be "ideal", but in the interim, I'll take a pure point guard over an undersized shooting guard with a dicey three point ball. Maybe Wesley Matthews is that guy? We'll see.
 
Terry Porter, that's the proto-type I think we're after ... now if could only figure out what I did with those time machine blueprints

You left them in the Delorean that we sent back to the 2007 Draft.
 
http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/10/23/1770206/jerryd-bayless-the-difference-between-good-and-right

Dave says what I'm apparently failing to get at.

Since his rookie campaign Jerryd Bayless has demonstrated the ability to score, if not consistently, at least in impressive torrents. Who will forget his 29 point performance against Phoenix last year, let alone his 31 against the Spurs a week later? Outside of Brandon Roy the Blazers haven't had anyone with such potential to make opponents instantly miserable. When Bayless was driving and drawing fouls and hitting the pull-up he was nigh unstoppable. Sadly, those superstar-level nights were scattered too thinly, even for a second-year player. Once Roy returned from injury last year double digits turned into three, four, or six point offerings. Clearly fielding another backcourt player who needed the ball and shots in order to succeed was not high on Portland's to-do list. Roy had the captain's chair, Andre Miller had more experience. With a full, healthy roster Bayless was going to lose minutes, touches, and shots to both of those players. It didn't end there either. If you're tallying Blazers whose offensive games need to be explored better (as Bayless' certainly does) count in LaMarcus Aldridge, Nicolas Batum, and Greg Oden at minimum. For various reasons, all three of those players came higher on the priority list than Jerryd. This is what the "Free Bayless" crowd missed. Bayless had clearance but he was also taxiing a runway with multiple flights scheduled ahead of him for takeoff. Which of the five players just mentioned should the Blazers pull out of line to accommodate Jerryd's take-off?

The magic solution to this scoring conundrum was Bayless becoming more of a true point guard. It's no accident that the team forecast all of his minutes to come at that position, nor that they bolstered the off-guard position in spite of his presence. It was no accident that, when pressed, Jerryd himself claimed he wanted to run the point and be thought of as a helmsman rather than a gunner. If he could be penciled in as Portland's long-term point guard Bayless would only need to wait out Andre Miller's contract to claim all of the playing time he could handle. One more year of understudy and the lead would have been his.

Bayless had not been completely comfortable at the point heretofore. Neither had he failed abjectly. He went through most of the bumps and bruises any converted point guard encounters. At first he only saw the rim. Then he only saw the floor when he was on the drive. He was never smooth with the simple entry pass. He was only brilliant on the drive. He didn't like the catch-and-shoot. Throughout last season he worked on those skills. He became adequate, at times quite good, with his stand-still jumper. He started discovering more angles off of those same drives, recognizing cutters and opportunities. Much of the time, though, he still looked lost, or at least wasted (in terms of his skills) when playing point. He also had trouble defending without fouling, his impressive body becoming a liability as much as an asset.
 
Jrue Holliday ...

Jrue Holiday, with a 12.3 PER, has failed over and over, for an entire year, to seize the opportunities given to him. Nothing against him, but it's time to move on. He got every chance to prove himself and he failed.

:)
 
With the potential of a lockout, how does that affect this summer's draft. Does the old CBA apply to this year's draft or will it be subject to the new CBA?

The draft would be unchanged. If there is a strong posibility of a lockout, there has been rumors that underclassmen would not declare. This coming draft could be horrible, with the following year being stacked.
 

I guess I'm not being clear either... I don't have any problem with Bayless being traded. Hell, I think I've tossed him in 90% of my trade proposals. I've always thought of him as a sweetener. I just feel like we didn't get very much for a guy that I personally think had a lot of upside. I don't think Jerryd fit our future plans. I even expected him to be traded after he was publicly moved to the third string. I just didn't think we would be getting a conditional first round pick for him. It just seems very rush, which is in stark contrast to how the whole Rudy situation is being handled. Were they worried about Jerryd causing problems in the locker room? Who knows. I just wish we had held onto him as a sweetener, or found something that actually improved our team. Right now I really don't see a backup point guard on this team, unless Johnson can handle it.
 
Jrue Holiday, with a 12.3 PER, has failed over and over, for an entire year, to seize the opportunities given to him. Nothing against him, but it's time to move on. He got every chance to prove himself and he failed.

:)

Look at his splits last year. First off, his PER was mostly damaged by low usage and some turnover issues early on, after the midpoint of the season he was looking a whole lot more like a great future point guard for the Sixers.

And for fuck's sake, I never said Jerryd failed, I said he failed to fully seize the opportunity in front of him.
 
I liked Bayless' attitude and work ethic but I was never that high on him, at least relative to a lot of people on here. I think he has the ability to put up good numbers on another team, he just wasn't a good fit here. So I think it's a good trade for both teams.

Getting this much for Bayless is much better than waiting another year and letting his stock go down, which given the glut of guys we have that deserve time at the guard positions, would have happened. And in return we gain either an almost certain lottery pick (IMO), or an extremely valuable piece in a future trade (see John Holinger's article). I really like it. It's never easy seeing someone you liked go though (Webster, Outlaw, Blake, and now Bayless), but I think it'll be better for the team.
 
I guess I'm not being clear either... I don't have any problem with Bayless being traded. Hell, I think I've tossed him in 90% of my trade proposals. I've always thought of him as a sweetener. I just feel like we didn't get very much for a guy that I personally think had a lot of upside. I don't think Jerryd fit our future plans. I even expected him to be traded after he was publicly moved to the third string. I just didn't think we would be getting a conditional first round pick for him. It just seems very rush, which is in stark contrast to how the whole Rudy situation is being handled. Were they worried about Jerryd causing problems in the locker room? Who knows. I just wish we had held onto him as a sweetener, or found something that actually improved our team. Right now I really don't see a backup point guard on this team, unless Johnson can handle it.

I also don't have a problem with the concept of Bayless being traded. I still think that, with the right system, he could be a good complement to Roy...but his shot would need to continue to progress for that.

But even if one takes as a given that he can never fit in here, I still don't think you trade him for pennies on the dollar, as I think this trade was. If the pick ends up top-ten, I'll change my mind, but I don't think that's the likeliest outcome. I think it's going to be fringe lottery with some chance to not even be in the lottery. I think that would be too little for a player of Bayless' talent.

One place I disagree with you is that it presents a short-term problem. I don't think the team needs a true backup point guard...unless either Miller or Roy is injured. As long as both are healthy, the team can always have one of Roy or Miller on the floor to initiate, which means Matthews or Rudy can fill the other guard spot.
 
I guess I'm not being clear either... I don't have any problem with Bayless being traded. Hell, I think I've tossed him in 90% of my trade proposals. I've always thought of him as a sweetener. I just feel like we didn't get very much for a guy that I personally think had a lot of upside. I don't think Jerryd fit our future plans. I even expected him to be traded after he was publicly moved to the third string. I just didn't think we would be getting a conditional first round pick for him. It just seems very rush, which is in stark contrast to how the whole Rudy situation is being handled. Were they worried about Jerryd causing problems in the locker room? Who knows. I just wish we had held onto him as a sweetener, or found something that actually improved our team. Right now I really don't see a backup point guard on this team, unless Johnson can handle it.

If Discovery69 over at clubblazers is to be believed, apparently Jerryd requested a trade over the weekend. Maybe Cho felt like they didn't need another disgruntled guard on their hands, and one who was going to have trouble making his mark with this team longterm anyway.
 
This is most definitely a WTF trade.


Seriously Cho? The best you could get for Bayless was a protected first round pick?


Fucking stupid.
 
This is most definitely a WTF trade.


Seriously Cho? The best you could get for Bayless was a protected first round pick?


Fucking stupid.

If Rudy's market was about a late first rounder before he went public with his wish to be released, then it stands to reason that J-Bay is probably worth about a 9-14 range pick.
 
I approve of this trade (because, after all, I asked for it). I think it's actually more likely to clear up PT for Rudy and Matthews than it is Armon. Roy will probably be our backup PG and this will lessen the time that Roy and Miller spend on the court together.

But who goes out of Pendy and Patty?

This was my first thought. I also would not be surprised if both Pendy and Mills are cut and they sign a older Vet as the back up. Even thought I am a Bayless fan, I said last week I thought Armon would beat him out by next year. Bayless is a good player, but he just doesn't set up the post players. He can be instant offense, and i was hoping he would fit with Roy, but he rarely plays with Roy. I think they want to get Rudy more minutes.
 
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