Trade Bazemore being traded to SAC

[wizenheimer]

Ariza is shooting just a bit over 37% on catch and shoot threes this season. Looking at his recent seasons he seems to hover between 36-40%. If he can translate that to Portland, and I don’t see why he wouldn’t as he’s going to get good looks, he will help.

Another thing I noticed, in the 8 games he’s gotten over 30 minutes this season, he’s shooting 48% (41% from three) which also falls in line with his career splits. He’s at his best when he’s playing 30+ minutes. And he might be older, but he’s averaged 30+ minutes as recently as last season, when he played 34 minutes a night. Would expect something similar in Portland.

maybe...

but I've heard that song before: the "new guy" will shoot better in the Stotts offense. Heard it for Gerald Henderson and Afflalo and Turner and Stauskas and Bazemore and Hezonja and Tolliver. Wasn't true for any of those guys

here's something else, career 3ptFG%: Ariza .351....Bazemore .349

I think Ariza is a better player than Bazemore, but the gap isn't that big. He will likely play a lot more under control and that should be worth something

 

[kjironman1]

it's Dwight Jaynes, and sorry, but he's carrying water for Olshey again

It's not Dwight.
It's Tom Ziller. Considered one of if not the best cap specialists around.
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2020/1...and-trail-blazers-sacramento-kings-nba-rumors

 

[kjironman1]

but I've heard that song before: the "new guy" will shoot better in the Stotts offense.

Yep. I get sick of that tired old line also. Stotts offense is not going to change what a shooter makes on open shots.

 

[hoopsjock]

Link?
Not saying you are wrong at all. Just want to catch up on it? If he becomes guaranteed he is an expiring at 12 million+. I don't see how any rule can change that outside of making him "Untradeable"?

No, what they are saying is that they could trade him and the team that gets him could then waive him and only pay the 1.8 million but that is incorrect.

 

[kjironman1]

No, what they are saying is that they could trade him and the team that gets him could then waive him and only pay the 1.8 million but that is incorrect.

Like i said. Got a link to that?
Not saying you are wrong at all. But what you are saying is he cannot be traded now before his contract becomes guaranteed? If he can be traded before that then he can indeed be waived before his contract becomes guaranteed and they could use him to level off another trade.
Where is this rule?

 

[wizenheimer]

Like i said. Got a link to that?
Not saying you are wrong at all. But what you are saying is he cannot be traded now before his contract becomes guaranteed? If he can be traded before that then he can indeed be waived before his contract becomes guaranteed and they could use him to level off another trade.
Where is this rule?

the rule would be in the CBA somewhere, and if you've ever tried to find something in the CBA, you'd know you're asking for a lot. Even the CBA FAQ is a tough place to search:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

I asked about that rule in another thread because I remember something about that change....that after the trade deadline, a player with a non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed contract the following year could not be traded unless the contract was guaranteed. HJ said that was the rule, which kind of confirmed what I recalled, but I don't know where in the CBA or FAQ to confirm that rule

if so, then the next 2+ weeks is the last time the Blazers can trade Ariza with that partial guarantee in effect. And, I'm not sure but Ariza might not be able to be included in a trade with other Blazer players right now

 

[Lanny]

Bazemore getting traded? Hey, don't get my hopes up just to dash them.

 

[wizenheimer]

It's not Dwight.
It's Tom Ziller. Considered one of if not the best cap specialists around.
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2020/1...and-trail-blazers-sacramento-kings-nba-rumors

the link BGD posted was to a Dwight Jaynes column

 

[hoopsjock]

Like i said. Got a link to that?
Not saying you are wrong at all. But what you are saying is he cannot be traded now before his contract becomes guaranteed? If he can be traded before that then he can indeed be waived before his contract becomes guaranteed and they could use him to level off another trade.
Where is this rule?

You could've just googled it but okay:
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/07...ntract-rules-have-affected-recent-trades.html
There is about 100 links that come up when I searched.

Ariza can be traded. He can be traded once he is a Blazer until the trade deadline by himself. His deadline for being guaranteed is June 30th so he can be traded up until that date.

What I'm saying is if he is traded after the season his contract becomes guaranteed next season, unless the salary isn't needed to make the trade work, which would not be the case in the type of move mentioned in the article. So, a team trades for him before February 6th they have the right to waive him and only pay the $1.8 million like the Blazers do. If that deadline passes his salary would have to be guaranteed for next season in a trade.

 

[kjironman1]

the link BGD posted was to a Dwight Jaynes column

I understand that. But he is quoting Tom Ziller and there is a link to it in the post.

 

[Scalma]

maybe...

but I've heard that song before: the "new guy" will shoot better in the Stotts offense. Heard it for Gerald Henderson and Afflalo and Turner and Stauskas and Bazemore and Hezonja and Tolliver. Wasn't true for any of those guys

here's something else, career 3ptFG%: Ariza .351....Bazemore .349

I think Ariza is a better player than Bazemore, but the gap isn't that big. He will likely play a lot more under control and that should be worth something

Henderson had his best year shooting from outside in Portland and his TS% was really only weighed “down” because of his free throw percentage (something Portland is routinely elite in btw)

And if we’re going by TS%, Evan Turners career best came in Portland.

No one said Afflalo would shoot better in Portland as he was already a good shooter, which translated.

Others that didn’t have reputations as shooters that came to Portland and had career years

Aminu
Harkless
Napier

Or how about players that were developed in Portland that went elsewhere and didn’t replicate their numbers, like Crabbe.


The song is fine.

 

[hoopsjock]

the rule would be in the CBA somewhere, and if you've ever tried to find something in the CBA, you'd know you're asking for a lot. Even the CBA FAQ is a tough place to search:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

I asked about that rule in another thread because I remember something about that change....that after the trade deadline, a player with a non-guaranteed or partially guaranteed contract the following year could not be traded unless the contract was guaranteed. HJ said that was the rule, which kind of confirmed what I recalled, but I don't know where in the CBA or FAQ to confirm that rule

if so, then the next 2+ weeks is the last time the Blazers can trade Ariza with that partial guarantee in effect. And, I'm not sure but Ariza might not be able to be included in a trade with other Blazer players right now

Ariza can be traded again, just not with other players if the traded wouldn't work otherwise.

For example (NOT SAYING THESE ARE PLAUSIBLE):

Ariza and a 1st for Covington works.

Ariza and Whiteside for Chris Paul doesn't work.

This wasn't directed at you Wiz, even though I responded to you.

 

[Lanny]

I thought Ariza was in an old folks home.

 

[kjironman1]

You could've just googled it but okay:
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/07...ntract-rules-have-affected-recent-trades.html
There is about 100 links that come up when I searched.

Ariza can be traded. He can be traded once he is a Blazer until the trade deadline by himself. His deadline for being guaranteed is June 30th so he can be traded up until that date.

What I'm saying is if he is traded after the season his contract becomes guaranteed next season, unless the salary isn't needed to make the trade work, which would not be the case in the type of move mentioned in the article. So, a team trades for him before February 6th they have the right to waive him and only pay the $1.8 million like the Blazers do. If that deadline passes his salary would have to be guaranteed for next season in a trade.

Ok so what we have here is a difference in the part you read from Dwights column and what Tom Ziller wrote. Jaynes only quoted a portion of what was written.
He left this part out. "If it does, and if Portland elects to make a major splash in the next couple of weeks or this summer, Ariza’s contract could really help make the numbers work." Then he went on to say this "If nothing comes to pass, the Ariza trade saves the Blazers a substantial sum of money. And if all that’s not enough, there’s a chance — not a big one, but a chance — that Ariza helps Portland in the right ways to take hold of the up-for-grabs No. 8 seed in the West."

So really here if they use him before the trade deadline he can indeed be used as the full amount and then be waived. Just as the Blazers could do also.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was a bit out of sync on that.

 

[kjironman1]

I thought Ariza was in an old folks home.

Nah. He won't be having breakfast with you anytime soon Lanny....

 

[hoopsjock]

Ok so what we have here is a difference in the part you read from Dwights column and what Tom Ziller wrote. Jaynes only quoted a portion of what was written.
He left this part out. "If it does, and if Portland elects to make a major splash in the next couple of weeks or this summer, Ariza’s contract could really help make the numbers work." Then he went on to say this "If nothing comes to pass, the Ariza trade saves the Blazers a substantial sum of money. And if all that’s not enough, there’s a chance — not a big one, but a chance — that Ariza helps Portland in the right ways to take hold of the up-for-grabs No. 8 seed in the West."

So really here if they use him before the trade deadline he can indeed be used as the full amount and then be waived. Just as the Blazers could do also.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was a bit out of sync on that.

Huh? That's not the Easter Egg and not at all what Ziller said. He specifically mentions trading him after the deadline "at the draft". This is the part I was referring to. As to trading him now they can't trade him for a big splash unless it's by himself so his contract is actually worse than Bazemore's contract because with Bazemore it could be combined with others and you would owe him nothing in the off season. With Ariza you'd have to pay him $1.8 million to go away. So it's still dumb that your "expert" would write that.

 

[kjironman1]

Huh? That's not the Easter Egg and not at all what Ziller said. He specifically mentions trading him after the deadline "at the draft". This is the part I was referring to. As to trading him now they can't trade him for a big splash unless it's by himself so his contract is actually worse than Bazemore's contract because with Bazemore it could be combined with others and you would owe him nothing in the off season. With Ariza you'd have to pay him $1.8 million to go away. So it's still dumb that your "expert" would write that.

Even more so when Easter is April 12th.

 

[Lanny]

Nah. He won't be having breakfast with you anytime soon Lanny....

If he does, I hope he likes oatmeal 'cause you don't need any teeth to eat oatmeal. Ask me how I know.

 

[kjironman1]

Huh? That's not the Easter Egg and not at all what Ziller said. He specifically mentions trading him after the deadline "at the draft". This is the part I was referring to. As to trading him now they can't trade him for a big splash unless it's by himself so his contract is actually worse than Bazemore's contract because with Bazemore it could be combined with others and you would owe him nothing in the off season. With Ariza you'd have to pay him $1.8 million to go away. So it's still dumb that your "expert" would write that.

It is what he said. I quoted it directly from his article. Right or wrong. I did not know the rule. My questions were for me. Not to say you or Ziller were wrong on your interpretation of the rules.

 

[kjironman1]

If he does, I hope he likes oatmeal 'cause you don't need any teeth to eat oatmeal. Ask me how I know.

Let me guess. You are still waiting for your big teeth to come in?

 

[hoopsjock]

Ariza vs Bazemore Contract:

1) Ariza makes less this year saving the Blazers money.

2) Bazemore's contract could be combined with other salaries this season to make trades work, Ariza's contract can't.

3) Bazemore couldn't be traded after the season but before the new league year, Ariza can. However, if he is traded his salary becomes guaranteed for whatever team trades for him.

4) If Bazemore left in free agency we'd have $0 towards the cap in 2020-21. If Ariza is waived they'd have $1.8 million against the 2020-21 cap.

So in conclusion, the Blazers saved a lot of money now at the cost of paying a much smaller amount next year or keeping Ariza instead of having "cap space" kind of like a free agent acquisition. Bazemore is easier to trade now but Ariza's window for trading is open longer, you just can't trade for him and waive him if the trade happens after this season.

 

[kjironman1]

Ariza vs Bazemore Contract:

1) Ariza makes less this year saving the Blazers money.

2) Bazemore's contract could be combined with other salaries this season to make trades work, Ariza's contract can't.

3) Bazemore couldn't be traded after the season but before the new league year, Ariza can. However, if he is traded his salary becomes guaranteed for whatever team trades for him.

4) If Bazemore left in free agency we'd have $0 towards the cap in 2020-21. If Ariza is waived they'd have $1.8 million against the 2020-21 cap.

So in conclusion, the Blazers saved a lot of money now at the cost of paying a much smaller amount next year or keeping Ariza instead of having "cap space" kind of like a free agent acquisition. Bazemore is easier to trade now but Ariza's window for trading is open longer, you just can't trade for him and waive him if the trade happens after this season.

One other thing.
Ariza does have some game. He might play well enough or fit a little better and produce for the team. Blazers also picked up Gabriel. Who knows? Gabriel might work into something.

 

[hoopsjock]

One other thing.
Ariza does have some game. He might play well enough or fit a little better and produce for the team. Blazers also picked up Gabriel. Who knows? Gabriel might work into something.

I'm not referring to anything about the players on the court, just contractually.

 

[hoopsjock]

@kjironman1

Tom Ziller just added an addendum to his article thanks to me and Dwight Jaynes had to write a retraction piece.

 

[Scalma]

What’s the rush to dump Ariza? Hood will be coming back from the most serious injury, and the only other possible fixture at SF on the roster is a teenager. Ariza still grades out as one of the better defensive wings in the league and has experience on the biggest stage. He’s only under contract for one more season, so if he has a sudden fall from the cliff there’s no long term commitment.

Dame
CJ
Ariza
Collins..maybe Melo
Nurkic

Hood sixth man.

That’s not intriguing to anyone else?

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

What’s the rush to dump Ariza? Hood will be coming back from the most serious injury, and the only other possible fixture at SF on the roster is a teenager. Ariza still grades out as one of the better defensive wings in the league and has experience on the biggest stage. He’s only under contract for one more season, so if he has a sudden fall from the cliff there’s no long term commitment.

Dame
CJ
Ariza
Collins..maybe Melo
Nurkic

Hood sixth man.

That’s not intriguing to anyone else?

No

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

@kjironman1

Tom Ziller just added an addendum to his article thanks to me and Dwight Jaynes had to write a retraction piece.

Good work!

 

[Blazers Roy]

maybe...

but I've heard that song before: the "new guy" will shoot better in the Stotts offense. Heard it for Gerald Henderson and Afflalo and Turner and Stauskas and Bazemore and Hezonja and Tolliver. Wasn't true for any of those guys

What the hell are you talking about? Stotts offense gets players quality shots with only 1 defender guarding them

 

[HailBlazers]

@kjironman1

Tom Ziller just added an addendum to his article thanks to me and Dwight Jaynes had to write a retraction piece.

Haha Nice!

 

[wizenheimer]

Henderson had his best year shooting from outside in Portland and his TS% was really only weighed “down” because of his free throw percentage (something Portland is routinely elite in btw)

you talked about 3ptFG% and that's what I was talking about, n

And if we’re going by TS%, Evan Turners career best came in Portland.

you talked about 3ptFG% and that's what I was talking about, not TS%

* Henderson shot .348 his final year in Charlotte; he shot .353 in Portland and shot the same .353 the year after in Philly. His career mark was .327 but that was because he shot about 22% over his first 3 seasons. And he attempted less than 2 three's a game in Portland

* Turner's career mark from three is .294; in Portland he shot .278

Others that didn’t have reputations as shooters that came to Portland and had career years

Aminu
Harkless
Napier

Aminu shot 32% over his first 20 games with Portland. Harkless shot under 28% over his first season in Portland. Napier is about the only one you can definitely say shot better in Portland. But we are talking about players in their early 20's, going thru full training camps and exhibition seasons in an offensive system. Not somebody coming in cold mid-season after a trade

Ariza is in his 16th season, having played for 10 different teams; Portland will be his 11th. He's played in 1145 games, logging 33,000 minutes. He's unlikely to be getting a bump in a new system. He's essentially at his career mark of .351 this year, and has been at it or under in 8 or the last 12 seasons

all I'm saying is it's probably unrealistic to expect a player of his age and experience to have a big uptick in shooting percentages after a mid-season trade. If he was 22, maybe. But 34?