BC outgunning KP

[BoomChakaLaka]

Has anyone taken notice to Brian Collangelo's efforts over the past week? I think he's doing a better job than KP!

------------------------------------------- Raptors-------------------------------------------------
This might be one of the best moves in Colangelo's tenure with the Raptors, if not his career. Not so much because of what we got, but because of the situation he was able to maneuver out of. Where we were once up the against the wall, now we have about $8 million to spend in a buyer's market. I don't think anyone in the NBA (media or outside executives) thought he'd be able to pull such a coup. This is capology at its best. And it makes the Hedo deal a little bit easier to accept.
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Re: Raps Acquire George and Wright in Deal?

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the question now is how do they use their mle wisely? doug smith is theorizing delfino but he's doesnt do much for me, i say ramon sessions who can anchor the reserves, backup an injury prone caledron and finish games potentially at the two.
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Have we renounced our rights to Delfino? If not, can't we re-sign him without it dipping into our MLE (bird rights)?

i dont think we have officially renounced delfino nor parker yet, this trade ensured that. however, im talking about best bang for ones buck and i say ramon sessions. a frugal bucks franchise led by a republican senator arent going to match the offersheet and sessions is the exact need to be addressed.

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Is Klieza worth bringing in? I've seen him occaisonally, but have had to rely on scouting reports and second-hand accounts more than I'd like.

-----------------------------------

Stole Turk from Portland
Pulled off major S&T with Dallas, Memphis and Orlando
Now Turk doesn't eat cap space
In the process, "creates cap space" by getting rid of Marion
Bring in George and other
Has sites on Ramon Sessions and/or Klieza with their MLE and space
And they signed Bargnani to an extension the minute they could...

....now BOSH likes what he's seeing! May sign extension?



NOW THAT IS A SUMMER!


Come on KP!!! You are getting ByatCh'd

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

obviously this is all part of Pritch's master plan, otherwise he would have done something differently.

in pritch we trust.

 

[BengalDuck]

seriously? $100 mil for old Hedo and no position Bargs...

 

[alex42083]

Oh please.. the Craptors still will suck next season. In a few years, they're going to regret having $20 mil tied up of their $50 mil or so cap on their two forwards. I'll be eagerly awaiting Toronto's visit to Portland next season so we can kick their ass.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

Oh please.. the Craptors still will suck next season. In a few years, they're going to regret having $20 mil tied up of their $50 mil or so cap on their two forwards. I'll be eagerly awaiting Toronto's visit to Portland next season so we can kick their ass.

I can't stand Toronto!

Since moving from P-town up to Vancouver, BC - all I can watch on cable is "Raptors NBA TV" - and with the Nash lovers up here - if the Raptors aren't playing, I was able to enjoy a nice Suns game! LOL

Thank God for justin.tv!!! This was my only hope last season to see a Blazer game!

I forgot to add to my original thread: "And they signed Bargs to an extension the first day they could"

ROY? LMA?

WTF? Come on KP!

Come on!

 

[BalancedMan]

I'll say that BC is a decent GM...he constructed the SSOL Suns after all....but this doesn't make sense. How does the Marion trade "open up" cap room for them. Marion was an unrestricted FA, so it was essentially a sign and trade right? Isn't the cap like $57.7 million? Storyteller has them at $52 million. Regardless, they can't sign someone for being "under the cap" and also someone to the "MLE" just because they maneuvered under the cap in the off season (if they even managed to do that...I'm skeptical, and drunk...).

They aren't getting Sessions as a backup.


IF they traded Marion (no contract obligation) for George and Wright, doesn't that actually eat about 3.5 million into their cap space? They don't have to resign their FA's like Parker, but that's not a big deal. I'm not sure how the trade to Dallas is a "good" move for Toronto. I'm sure there is one, but I just haven't figured it out myself (knowing limited details) yet.

 

[BalancedMan]

I'll say that BC is a decent GM...he constructed the SSOL Suns after all....but this doesn't make sense. How does the Marion trade "open up" cap room for them. Marion was an unrestricted FA, so it was essentially a sign and trade right? Isn't the cap like $57.7 million? Storyteller has them at $52 million. Regardless, they can't sign someone for being "under the cap" and also someone to the "MLE" just because they maneuvered under the cap in the off season (if they even managed to do that...I'm skeptical, and drunk...).

They aren't getting Sessions as a backup.


IF they traded Marion (no contract obligation) for George and Wright, doesn't that actually eat about 3.5 million into their cap space? They don't have to resign their FA's like Parker, but that's not a big deal. I'm not sure how the trade to Dallas is a "good" move for Toronto. I'm sure there is one, but I just haven't figured it out myself (knowing limited details) yet.

Nevermind, didn't know that Humphres and Jawai were involved. Or that Orlando ended up being the "4th" team, so that it is really a S&T and Hedo can get more money that way. Still not sure it really frees up much room for them. I'm almost certain they can't sign someone (if they are under the cap) and use the MLE....so.

They'll be in mediocrity for quite a while.

 

[Tince]

I can't stand Toronto!

Since moving from P-town up to Vancouver, BC - all I can watch on cable is "Raptors NBA TV" - and with the Nash lovers up here - if the Raptors aren't playing, I was able to enjoy a nice Suns game! LOL

Thank God for justin.tv!!! This was my only hope last season to see a Blazer game!

I forgot to add to my original thread: "And they signed Bargs to an extension the first day they could"

ROY? LMA?

WTF? Come on KP!

Come on!

Yeah, they're in a rush to suck for a long time! I wish we would model ourselves after them.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

Yeah, they're in a rush to suck for a long time! I wish we would model ourselves after them.

I'm not defending BC! I'm just showing example of Action vs. No Action


If you take the position that No Action by KP and the Blazers > What Collangello has accomplished over the past two weeks. I'm not so sure.


Since I didn't create this thread with reason to defend BC whatsoever - I did post this thread to show "who's slappin who" over the past ten days or so!


I for one am greatly disappointed thus far! Rumors of contract extensions stalling with Roy and LMA are causing me great concern.


For KP to come out ahead in the BC v. KP showdown, I'd like to see:

1. Max contract signed with ROY (5 years +)
2. Close-to Max contract signed with LMA (5 years +)

3. Sign Rookie contracts with Pendergraph, Mills, Cunningham & Freeland
4. Renounce rights to Kopenen, but sign/keep Freeland

5. Get Millsap to SIGN an offer sheet (if Utah matches - so be it....they are screwed. Don't worry about embarrassment)

6. If Millsap offer is matched - pursue Drew Gooden (over Bass). We sorely need a banger over any other need.

7. Sign & Trade (Travis + whomever's name is not Oden/Roy/LMA/Pryz/Millsap) to get Gerald Wallace into a Blazer uniform! Wallace, over anyone else that might be attainable - would change the face of this team.

8. Let the world know that the PG situation is fluid - and all eyes will be fixed upon Bayless' & Mills' development prior to the 2010 trade deadline. By the trade deadline, we may see an economy-driven salary dump of "what we really need" and we MUST remain postured to deal if and when this happens (Paul, Williams, Harris, Sessions, Nash?).

 

[Deebag]

The team now had potential to be good. But not to win a championship.

 

[ODENISGOD]

everyone has been out smarting KP all off season, whats your point?

 

[Chutney]

Nevermind, didn't know that Humphres and Jawai were involved. Or that Orlando ended up being the "4th" team, so that it is really a S&T and Hedo can get more money that way. Still not sure it really frees up much room for them. I'm almost certain they can't sign someone (if they are under the cap) and use the MLE....so.

They'll be in mediocrity for quite a while.

I posted this in the Raptors forum. Pretty sure it's an accurate account of how this deal worked out for the Raps:

If a team holds the bird rights of a pending free agent, a "cap hold" comes into play. That cap hold is basically a dollar figure (usually a bit more than their last year of salary) that counts against the team's cap, until that team either (a) re-signs him, at which point his new contract figure is what counts against their cap, or (b) renounces their bird rights to him, at which point all that money is cleared. Before they made a commitment to Turkoglu, the Raptors had the bird rights to Shawn Marion, Anthony Parker, and Carlos Delfino (as well as assorted scrub players), making them over the cap and elligible for the MLE. When they tentatively agreed to a deal with Hedo, they were in a position where they'd have to renounce the rights to Marion/Parker/Delfino and get rid of their cap holds, so that they could clear up enough cap space for Hedo. Once you go below the salary cap you can't go back over it and qualify for the MLE again. Instead of doing that, Colangelo shipped Marion off and brought Turkoglu in with one move. He didn't have to renounce any players because Turkoglu's new contract (through the sign-and-trade) replaces Marion's cap hold. And because he never had to renounce any players, he remained over the cap the entire time and still qualifies for the MLE.

Right now the Raptors still have the rights to Delfino (so they can re-sign him without dipping into their MLE), as well as about $8 million in exceptions to spend (the MLE and Bi-annual exception).

 

[Chutney]

I'm not defending BC! I'm just showing example of Action vs. No Action


If you take the position that No Action by KP and the Blazers > What Collangello has accomplished over the past two weeks. I'm not so sure.


Since I didn't create this thread with reason to defend BC whatsoever - I did post this thread to show "who's slappin who" over the past ten days or so!


I for one am greatly disappointed thus far! Rumors of contract extensions stalling with Roy and LMA are causing me great concern.

To be fair, Colangelo's always been a very impulsive and decisive GM (almost to the point of recklessness at times). That's been his M.O. for years, and its certainly characterized his tenure in Toronto. At times its worked out great (the '06 and this offseason), and other times it's been disastrous (the JO trade is the best example).

 

[Chutney]

Oh please.. the Craptors still will suck next season. In a few years, they're going to regret having $20 mil tied up of their $50 mil or so cap on their two forwards. I'll be eagerly awaiting Toronto's visit to Portland next season so we can kick their ass.

If this roster doesn't work out, the Raps aren't as screwed as some may think. Currently, they only have 4 contracts on the books past 2011 (Calderon, Bargnani, Turkoglu, and DeRozan) and, barring a drastic regression by Calderon and Bargnani, three of those could be moved fairly easily.

 

[STOMP]

check out this little guy lots of movement, but he never goes anywhere

activity doesn't necessarily equate to accomplishment

STOMP

 

[Pinwheel1]

I'm not defending BC! I'm just showing example of Action vs. No Action


If you take the position that No Action by KP and the Blazers > What Collangello has accomplished over the past two weeks. I'm not so sure.


Since I didn't create this thread with reason to defend BC whatsoever - I did post this thread to show "who's slappin who" over the past ten days or so!


I for one am greatly disappointed thus far! Rumors of contract extensions stalling with Roy and LMA are causing me great concern.
For KP to come out ahead in the BC v. KP showdown, I'd like to see:

1. Max contract signed with ROY (5 years +)
2. Close-to Max contract signed with LMA (5 years +)

3. Sign Rookie contracts with Pendergraph, Mills, Cunningham & Freeland
4. Renounce rights to Kopenen, but sign/keep Freeland

5. Get Millsap to SIGN an offer sheet (if Utah matches - so be it....they are screwed. Don't worry about embarrassment)

6. If Millsap offer is matched - pursue Drew Gooden (over Bass). We sorely need a banger over any other need.

7. Sign & Trade (Travis + whomever's name is not Oden/Roy/LMA/Pryz/Millsap) to get Gerald Wallace into a Blazer uniform! Wallace, over anyone else that might be attainable - would change the face of this team.

8. Let the world know that the PG situation is fluid - and all eyes will be fixed upon Bayless' & Mills' development prior to the 2010 trade deadline. By the trade deadline, we may see an economy-driven salary dump of "what we really need" and we MUST remain postured to deal if and when this happens (Paul, Williams, Harris, Sessions, Nash?).

I am disappointed too. I am extremely disappointed in stupid comments like these. From the fans and especially the media. The theory of "build them up so you can tear them down" is live and well regarding KP. The fact that people are actually talking nationally about the "pressure" KP has right now to make a move because of the "failure" to sign a free agent in two weeks shows how absurd we all are. Plus it can only hurt the process by making him do a stupid move. I feel like I am back in high school with all the "who is slapping who" bullshit. It is July 10th and you people are actually acting like a bunch of pussies who have never followed the NBA before by getting upset everytime Jason Quick makes a comment.

Canzano actually asked KP yesterday if he would be conducting business at the summer league games. Are you fucking serious? Its like I have walked in to some alternative world in 1975 where everyone was just becoming a Blazer fan. My god people grow up and look at the whole picture and stop believing everything you read. And if other GM's are making more things happen.........good it's becasue they need to and we are past that. We do need to make a deal, just not as many. Did I say it was July fucking 10th.

 

[Sinobas]

What do you mean that "turk doesn't eat cap space"? How does that work? With his contact, the Raptors should be right up against the cap limit right now.

 

[BlazerBeav]

I am disappointed too. I am extremely disappointed in stupid comments like these. From the fans and especially the media. The theory of "build them up so you can tear them down" is live and well regarding KP. The fact that people are actually talking nationally about the "pressure" KP has right now to make a move because of the "failure" to sign a free agent in two weeks shows how absurd we all are. Plus it can only hurt the process by making him do a stupid move. I feel like I am back in high school with all the "who is slapping who" bullshit. It is July 10th and you people are actually acting like a bunch of pussies who have never followed the NBA before by getting upset everytime Jason Quick makes a comment.

Canzano actually asked KP yesterday if he would be conducting business at the summer league games. Are you fucking serious? Its like I have walked in to some alternative world in 1975 where everyone was just becoming a Blazer fan. My god people grow up and look at the whole picture and stop believing everything you read. And if other GM's are making more things happen.........good it's becasue they need to and we are past that. We do need to make a deal, just not as many. Did I say it was July fucking 10th.

Seconded.

 

[mook]

If my choice is between inaction and signing Bargnani/Hedo to a total of $100 mil, I'll take inaction. Somebody needs to explain to Toronto that the first step in getting out of a deep hole is to stop digging.

We've got a really good thing going in Portland. Pritchard's biggest priority is to, as Hippocrates said, first do no harm. His second biggest priority is to consolidate a bunch of young mediocre-to-good talent into one or two really good players (preferably one really good PG).

There are definitely some acquisitions I'd love to have seen happen in the past year or so. Vince Carter, Ron Artest, Marion, Devin Harris....I'm disappointed nothing happened to date (and a little alarmed that we almost got stuck with a pretty bad Hedo contract). But I see some of the possible irons in the fire (Hinrich, Milsap) and I'm not even close to pushing the panic button.

And I'm certainly nowhere remotely close to envying the Toronto Raptors.

 

[maxiep]

I'm not defending BC! I'm just showing example of Action vs. No Action


If you take the position that No Action by KP and the Blazers > What Collangello has accomplished over the past two weeks. I'm not so sure.


Since I didn't create this thread with reason to defend BC whatsoever - I did post this thread to show "who's slappin who" over the past ten days or so!


I for one am greatly disappointed thus far! Rumors of contract extensions stalling with Roy and LMA are causing me great concern.


For KP to come out ahead in the BC v. KP showdown, I'd like to see:

1. Max contract signed with ROY (5 years +)
2. Close-to Max contract signed with LMA (5 years +)

3. Sign Rookie contracts with Pendergraph, Mills, Cunningham & Freeland
4. Renounce rights to Kopenen, but sign/keep Freeland

5. Get Millsap to SIGN an offer sheet (if Utah matches - so be it....they are screwed. Don't worry about embarrassment)

6. If Millsap offer is matched - pursue Drew Gooden (over Bass). We sorely need a banger over any other need.

7. Sign & Trade (Travis + whomever's name is not Oden/Roy/LMA/Pryz/Millsap) to get Gerald Wallace into a Blazer uniform! Wallace, over anyone else that might be attainable - would change the face of this team.

8. Let the world know that the PG situation is fluid - and all eyes will be fixed upon Bayless' & Mills' development prior to the 2010 trade deadline. By the trade deadline, we may see an economy-driven salary dump of "what we really need" and we MUST remain postured to deal if and when this happens (Paul, Williams, Harris, Sessions, Nash?).

Sometimes inaction is better than action.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Now Turk doesn't eat cap space

Yes he does. He eats all of their cap space. The whole point of the 4-team TOR/DAL/ORL/MEM trade was to use their cap space in a trade, rather than a free agent signing. If they would have just signed Hedo outright, they would have had to renounce Marion, Parker and Delfino and they would have had to forfeit their MLE and bi-annual exceptions.

In the process, "creates cap space" by getting rid of Marion

Wrong again. See above. Toronto has no cap space.

Bring in George and other

Not sure why this is considered a positive. These were two guys Dallas wanted to dump and were thrown in to make the deal work. These are two guys who has PERs of 7.0 and 8.6 last season. Toronto basically picked them up to add bodies to a very depleted roster and weak bench and they gave up two big men (Humphries and Jawai) of their already depleted bench. Jawai hasn't shown much yet, but Humphries is a solid back-up big and a very good rebounder.

Has sites on Ramon Sessions and/or Klieza with their MLE and space

They don't have any cap space. You can't have both the MLE and cap space. What they have are two exceptions - the MLE and the bi-annual exception. They aren't going to get Sessions as a back-up PG for the MLE. Milwaukee traded Jefferson and let Villanueva walk so they could afford to keep Sessions.

And they signed Bargnani to an extension the minute they could...

Again, not sure why this is a positive. Yes, Bargnani finally showed some improvement over the second half of last season. He proved he can score (which he originally proved his rookie season), but he is still a very weak rebounder and a very weak defender.

All of these moves and Colangelo hasn't addressed the Raptors two biggest needs - rebounding and defense (the things that win ball games). In fact, by losing Marion in favor of Hedo, they have gotten worse in both areas. They were a weak rebounding team last season, and gave away their second best rebounder. Marion averaged 8.3 PRPG for them last season and they replaced him with a guy who averaged 5.3 RPG. They were also a very weak defensive team last season and just traded away their best defender for a guy who is a big offensive upgrade, but needs a shot blocking big man behind him to play effective team defense. In Orlando, Dwight Howard had Hedo's back on defense. Who has it now?

....now BOSH likes what he's seeing! May sign extension?

I seriously doubt it. Bosh wants to win, and he also wants to play with one of his buddies - Lebron or Wade. And, there isn't a chance in hell either one of those guys ends up in Toronto.

NOW THAT IS A SUMMER!

I'm impressed by the amount of activity, and I'm impressed with their ability to pull of the complex 4-team trade that allowed them to get Hedo and still retain their exceptions. However, I am not impressed with the end result. Their roster is still a mess. Due to poor defense and weak rebounding, they only won 33 games last season. Now, their defense and reboundng is even worse. They have an extremely weak bench and will likely be starting an unproven rookie at SG. Hedo will help them win a few more games. They may have an outside shot at making the play-offs, but will struggle to reach 0.500. If they make the play-offs, they will be bounced in the 1st round - and it won't be close. With the slower pace in the post season, rebounding and defense are even more important.

Next summer, Bosh leaves for greener pastures and they have big, long term commitments to Hedo, Bargnani and Calderon - all good offensive players, but horrible defenders and weak rebounders. If you add a dominant bag man and lock down perimeter defender to those three, you could have a decent starting 5. The problem is, dominant big men and all-nba defensive wings don't grow on trees - especially when you have over $30 million a year locked up in Calderon, Hedo and Bargnani. He has basically committed over $100 million to two guys who had below average PERs last season. Now, I'll be the first to admit there is more to a players value than a single number like PER. However, PER tends to favor players who are strong offensively - like Hedo and Bargnani, over players who are strong defensively. If anything, their PERs are higher than their net worth because it rewards their offensive contributions without comparably penalizing their poor defense. Until Colangelo improves their rebounding and defensive, and fills out their bench with passable NBA talent, I'm not impressed with the end results of his very busy summer.

BTW, I'm much more impressed with what San Antonio has accomplished this summer. They were a good team and have gotten better. Their moves have actually addressed their needs.

BNM

 

[RickyRubio]

I love the ignore feature!

 

[Ghost Pepper]

You think the guys around the league who want to win don't know exactly what Turk did? This guy is a gun for hire and he cares not about championships. He left the Magic, could have gone to the Blazers, only to wind up on a team that has no shot in hell of every being in a championship till years after Turk is all washed up.

We'll be thanking KP for not paying this guy who has no fire to really win!

 

[Blaze01]

Having Bosh call Hedo was a good move and it is a little baffling why Pritchard didn't have Roy or Aldridge contact or meet Hedo when he was here...

Maybe they did and we just haven't heard about it?

I still think TOR is a crap team, maybe they make the playoffs in the weak EC...but that is a team that is going nowhere.....congratulations, I guess?

So while some of you are sitting there and praising Colangelo and lambasting Pritchard, ask yourself this, the fact that the WC is a MUCH tougher conference top to bottom aside, Which team do you think will end up with the better record?

Any suckers...err...betters out there willing to "let it all ride" on TOR?

Not only do I think POR will have a better record in a far tougher conference, but POR will also likely win 50 games, which TOR won't and has a far better chance to actually ADVANCE out of the 1st round of the playoffs...and oh yeah, actually have a decent future outside of 2 years....

Just wanted to add a little "perspective" around here....

 

[andalusian]

Having Bosh call Hedo was a good move and it is a little baffling why Pritchard didn't have Roy or Aldridge contact or meet Hedo when he was here...

My inside sources (Blazers coach, Marc Iavaroni) told me that Rudy Fernandez called Turk.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

1) the off-season isn't over, so making judgements, at this point, makes no sense
2) BC's moves in Toronto, up to this point, have not been good

This is a very silly thread, IMO.

 

[LittleAlex]

1) the off-season isn't over, so making judgements, at this point, makes no sense
2) BC's moves in Toronto, up to this point, have not been good

This is a very silly thread, IMO.

Toronto's moves have been consistent with what appears to be the team concept for the Raptor's. Namely a running SSOL Suns like team. It may not win a title, but it will be a fan friendly basketball team. High scoring and exciting.

In that sense, BC has been pretty good this off season.

 

[andalusian]

Toronto's moves have been consistent with what appears to be the team concept for the Raptor's. Namely a running SSOL Suns like team. It may not win a title, but it will be a fan friendly basketball team. High scoring and exciting.

In that sense, BC has been pretty good this off season.

Turk, an unathletic guy is the cornerstone of a SSOL? When did SSOL turn to be "Same Shit, Only Less"?

Turk makes great sense in a half-court pick and roll with a big, bruising center. Who is going to play this role in Toronto? Bargnani?

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Toronto's moves have been consistent with what appears to be the team concept for the Raptor's. Namely a running SSOL Suns like team. It may not win a title, but it will be a fan friendly basketball team. High scoring and exciting.

In that sense, BC has been pretty good this off season.

Though I'm not going to anoint him the next "GM Wonder" because of these initial moves. I want to see what the result of these moves are first.

 

[e.l.e.]

Well I love the team Pritchard has put together! He's the last person on earth I'd expect a Blazer fan to criticize. He has turned jailblazing shit into solid gold in just a few short years and that's still not good enough?

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. Don't wait till he's left for greener pastures and you're stuck with another Nash before you realize how good you have it.