Trade Ben Simmons poll

[SharpesTriumph]

Portland is an awkward trade fit. Based purely on talent (because Morey doesn't worry about things like "it's going to be uncomfortable having a holding-out Ben Simmons"), Lillard is too heavy a trade return and McCollum is too light. Simmons is massively talented--it just so happens the one thing he doesn't do well is the most important single trait right now. But the 76ers have been successful with him before--they were a double-doink Leonard shot away from the Eastern Conference Finals a couple years ago. The best way for the 76ers to fade into irrelevance is to blow the Simmons trade and get back someone who isn't star level. McCollum isn't star level. Morey knows that, which is why he's taking his sweet time--while I think some of his reported trade proposals have been absurd, I do agree with his process in taking his time. They have Simmons under lock and key for four years, he's not about to disappear as a trade option imminently Morey's better off waiting to see if some team gets desperate or some star becomes disgruntled.

And what's his dream scenario? That both factors happen in Portland. If by the trade deadline, Portland is mired in, say, tenth place (because seeds 6-10 are all within a few games of each other), it's not impossible that Olshey will be getting desperate and Lillard will be unhappy. I still don't think Olshey moves Lillard in that situation, but it becomes not-impossible perhaps. At least, that's something Morey can hope on. But he can also hope a team like Sacramento gets desperate and offers up De'Aaron Fox or some other situation of that ilk. Short of trying to get out of the gate with as many early regular season wins as possible, there's not much upside for Philadelphia to trade Simmons for McCollum, IMO.

Great post. Yes I agree with it. While CJ might be the best player today that Philly can get, it doesn't make sense for them to make this trade if the goal is to contend and beat Brooklyn. Morey is a title or bust guy, so I see him risking whatever negatives happen this season with a Simmons holdout.

I feel like Simmons camp will cave on the hold out first... if in a few months he has lost over $10 million his attitude may change. It has been confirmed Ben can never get back those lost dollars even if Philly and the new team later tried. If we are months into this and Philly says hey we will do this for years if need be can you imagine Ben still holding out? It's truly an unprecedent situation.

Once Morey has traded Ben for a lesser starter (CJ, Hield, DiAngelo Russell) he won't be able to later flip that player for an all star the way he could if he had kept Simmons. So I agree Philly is not going to trade Ben.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

So much back and forth about all this. I wish Simmons would just get traded anywhere at this point so we can all move on.

What are you talking about? This is great drama, a reality TV soap opera.

Without it we'd only hear about how the Lakers are going to win 70 games and Kyrie believes the Earth is flat.

 

[illmatic99]

~8 min mark:



Woj:
- Philly seeking a "fairly elite," "significant" player for Simmons.
- Morey still taking and making calls regularly but is maintaining a high asking price.
- Could wait until December when recently signed FAs can be traded.

Lowe:
- Deal that makes the most sense is with Portland for CJ. No traction yet.
- Minny covets Ben the most but TWolves not willing to part with some pieces.
- Ben willing to sit out the whole season if that's what it takes to get out.

Spears:
- Portland/Minny/Sac/Spurs/New Orleans could get in the mix.
- Simmons still an All Star and one of the best defensive players in the league, and it's time for one of the smaller teams that can't get star FAs to step up.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/202...d-not-expect-fines-from-sixers-to-be-so-high/

Amazing. I'm beginning to wonder if he signed that mega-contract under false pretenses. It's possible he signed the deal in good faith and then changed his mind. It's also possible he was intending to do this the entire time....and was told the team would just roll over and take it.

Yeah once we get weeks into this I can't imagine Simmons camp keeps holding out. They are throwing away tens of millions. Kind of amazing they didn't consider this is a possibility.

 

[Shaboid]

What are you talking about? This is great drama, a reality TV soap opera.

Without it we'd only hear about how the Lakers are going to win 70 games and Kyrie believes the Earth is flat.

Fair point.

 

[illmatic99]

Really looking down the pipeline at guys who would become eligible to be traded in December/Jan, here were the recently signed FAs:

- Kawhi
- CP
- Lowry
- DeRozan
- Conley
- Hardaway
- Fournier
- Powell
- Dinwiddie
- Trent
- Markkanen

You also have BYC guys who were RFAs like John Collins/Jarrett Allen/Lonzo who I don't see being of much interest to Philly.

I don't see LA/PHX/MIA/CHI giving up on their guys. Conley would be intriguing, but is he better than CJ at this point? I really don't see any of the others being the primary piece in a Simmons swap, and their salaries (even Conley) would have to be combined in a multi-player trade.

So... again. Not sure what Morey is waiting for.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Really looking down the pipeline at guys who would become eligible to be traded in December/Jan, here were the recently signed FAs:

- Kawhi
- CP
- Lowry
- DeRozan
- Conley
- Hardaway
- Fournier
- Powell
- Dinwiddie
- Trent
- Markkanen

You also have BYC guys who were RFAs like John Collins/Jarrett Allen/Lonzo who I don't see being of much interest to Philly.

I don't see LA/PHX/MIA/CHI giving up on their guys. Conley would be intriguing, but is he better than CJ at this point? I really don't see any of the others being the primary piece in a Simmons swap, and their salaries (even Conley) would have to be combined in a multi-player trade.

So... again. Not sure what Morey is waiting for.

An implosion here or in Washington.

 

[illmatic99]

An implosion here or in Washington.

id wager on portland having a better record than Philly (minus Ben) by Christmas.

 

[Buffalo Custard]

Really looking down the pipeline at guys who would become eligible to be traded in December/Jan, here were the recently signed FAs:

- Kawhi
- CP
- Lowry
- DeRozan
- Conley
- Hardaway
- Fournier
- Powell
- Dinwiddie
- Trent
- Markkanen

You also have BYC guys who were RFAs like John Collins/Jarrett Allen/Lonzo who I don't see being of much interest to Philly.

I don't see LA/PHX/MI/CHI giving up on their guys. Conley would be intriguing, but is he better than CJ at this point? I really don't see any of the others being the primary piece in a Simmons swap, and their salaries (even Conley) would have to be combined in a multi-player trade.

So... again. Not sure what Morey is waiting for.

Off-the-wall thought. There has been plenty of speculation that if Toronto gets off to a slow start they will be interested in moving Siakim for a younger star/potential star. Morey could spin that as bringing in a stable vet presence in a win now move.

 

[blazerkor]

An implosion here or in Washington.

Both teams have brand new situations which means that Dame and Beal will give those new situations more time to pan out before demanding a trade. The fact is those guys are not going to be available for a long time. I don't think the Sixers are going let their second best player sit while time is ticking on Embiid's career and their season goes down the toilet. When the game's start mattering Morey will make a trade. I just hope that Neil understands that he needs to do what's necessary to get the kind of high impact player Simmons is. Since Neil didn't draft him, I doubt he understands that.

If it was CJ and RoCo for Simmons and filler we would be so much better. Dame, Norm, Nance, Simmons and Nurk is a contending starting lineup. Our bench would still have quality guys on it like Ant, Nas, Snell and Zeller.

 

[BankTeller]

Both teams have brand new situations which means that Dame and Beal will give those new situations more time to pan out before demanding a trade. The fact is those guys are not going to be available for a long time. I don't think the Sixers are going let their second best player sit while time is ticking on Embiid's career and their season goes down the toilet. When the game's start mattering Morey will make a trade. I just hope that Neil understands that he needs to do what's necessary to get the kind of high impact player Simmons is. Since Neil didn't draft him, I doubt he understands that.

If it was CJ and RoCo for Simmons and filler we would be so much better. Dame, Norm, Nance, Simmons and Nurk is a contending starting lineup. Our bench would still have quality guys on it like Ant, Nas, Snell and Zeller.

It would depend on what the filler is for me. If the filler is Maxey or Thybulle, then I can be talked into it. Progression from either guy would make Norman expendable and we can still improve. Any combination of Norman + all 1sts after 2022 + Little + Maxey/Thybulle + Simons surely could bring in another star quality wing to pair with Simmons or a star quality big like KAT as a PnR partner for Dame. Any other filler and I’m turned off completely. Green or Curry are immediate impacts but I prefer Norman at SG and Simons continuing to develop over either guy. No thank you to picks + Simmons as well.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Off-the-wall thought. There has been plenty of speculation that if Toronto gets off to a slow start they will be interested in moving Siakim for a younger star/potential star. Morey could spin that as bringing in a stable vet presence in a win now move.

CJ makes much more sense for Philly than Siakam.

 

[Ed O]

Yeah once we get weeks into this I can't imagine Simmons camp keeps holding out. They are throwing away tens of millions. Kind of amazing they didn't consider this is a possibility.

It seems likely he'll just pull a DeShaun Watson... be present but unavailable, basically. Get paid and let your trade value go down as you're seen as a malcontent. He's on a long term, massive deal, and if he is traded for LESS value, then the team he ends up on will probably be better off for it (as opposed to them trading a fortune).

I don't know what the line would be for him to do a hold in without getting fined, but it's sort of shocking he's not already doing it.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

Yeah once we get weeks into this I can't imagine Simmons camp keeps holding out. They are throwing away tens of millions. Kind of amazing they didn't consider this is a possibility.

I can’t see any way that Simmons tucks tail and goes back to team. Can you imagine the tension first time he walks into a practice or locker room. I don’t see money being his driving force more ego

 

[tlongII]

He's a loser.

 

[Cugel]

I say he will stay a 76er until next season.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Really looking down the pipeline at guys who would become eligible to be traded in December/Jan, here were the recently signed FAs:

- Kawhi
- CP
- Lowry
- DeRozan
- Conley
- Hardaway
- Fournier
- Powell
- Dinwiddie
- Trent
- Markkanen

You also have BYC guys who were RFAs like John Collins/Jarrett Allen/Lonzo who I don't see being of much interest to Philly.

I don't see LA/PHX/MIA/CHI giving up on their guys. Conley would be intriguing, but is he better than CJ at this point? I really don't see any of the others being the primary piece in a Simmons swap, and their salaries (even Conley) would have to be combined in a multi-player trade.

So... again. Not sure what Morey is waiting for.

Morey is probably thinking of all stars as much or more than recently signed free agents.

Bradley Beal, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Khris Middleton, Zach LaVine, Pascal Siakam, Julius Randle, Devin Booker, Paul George, Zion Williamson.

Usually there are about 2 all stars/all NBA players a year that ask out, or teams rebuild, or teams decide they are better with a trade.

Morey is probably thinking if one of those teams is horrible or some other event happens they will consider trading one of their star players. The 76ers then might have a chance acquiring such a player for Simmons. If they trade Simmons now they have likely no chance of acquiring that next star who becomes available.

Finally Morey might even feel keeping Simmons past the trade deadline, and calling Klutch bluff of sitting out all of $35 million per year, is better than taking a lesser player.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

It seems likely he'll just pull a DeShaun Watson... be present but unavailable, basically. Get paid and let your trade value go down as you're seen as a malcontent. He's on a long term, massive deal, and if he is traded for LESS value, then the team he ends up on will probably be better off for it (as opposed to them trading a fortune).

I don't know what the line would be for him to do a hold in without getting fined, but it's sort of shocking he's not already doing it.

Yeah I expect this is the next step we see from Simmons camp any day. Show up to all games to get those $250k checks. Refuse to do any practice as those fines are much smaller. When he does show up sit with headphones on and ignore everyone. Maybe he even plays 5 minutes, doesn't take a shot, cherry picks, and gets pulled. No way Doc would let that go on for extended minutes. I agree he benefits from reducing his trade value.

It will be interesting to see what happens next.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I can’t see any way that Simmons tucks tail and goes back to team. Can you imagine the tension first time he walks into a practice or locker room. I don’t see money being his driving force more ego

Maybe.... but is he going to give up $30 million to avoid tension? I think when he made these threats he and Klutch thought they could get that money back, now its confirmed when he misses a game it will be gone for good. I can see them coming up with a new strategy. Sitting in LA and seeing a million dollars go away every few games might motivate Ben to approach this differently.

 

[Buffalo Custard]

CJ makes much more sense for Philly than Siakam.

At this point, I suspect the PR spin is more important to Morey than what is best for the team on the court.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The best way for the 76ers to fade into irrelevance is to blow the Simmons trade and get back someone who isn't star level.

Just curious: what team whose star demanded a trade actually got a star in return?
Did the Rockets get a star for Harden?
Did the Pelicans get a star for KD?
Maybe you can claim that OKC got a star for Paul George, but that's stretching it - SGA was just promising.
Am I missing an example?

 

[illmatic99]

Just curious: what team whose star demanded a trade actually got a star in return?
Did the Rockets get a star for Harden?
Did the Pelicans get a star for KD?
Maybe you can claim that OKC got a star for Paul George, but that's stretching it - SGA was just promising.
Am I missing an example?

It's unprecedented for two reasons:

1. Simmons has 4 yrs left on his deal.
2. Philly is still trying to contend.

Star for star deals are so rare in the NBA. Westbrook for Paul was probably the most recent one.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

An implosion here or in Washington.

Would anyone notice an implosion in Washington?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

It's unprecedented for two reasons:

1. Simmons has 4 yrs left on his deal.
2. Philly is still trying to contend.

For the first point: George had years left on his deal. (Also: why is having years left on your deal supposed to matter? Because you control the player for that length of time? How'd that work for the Sixers?)
For the second: why the fuck should that matter to the other team? "Oh, I wasn't going to offer you a star but you say you're trying to contend? Well here, have Damian Lillard then!"

 

[illmatic99]

For the second: why the fuck should that matter to the other team? "Oh, I wasn't going to offer you a star but you say you're trying to contend? Well here, have Damian Lillard then!"

It doesn't, that's why Morey's waiting game makes little sense to me. There are absolutely no avenues for Simmons to actually increase his value right now.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Just curious: what team whose star demanded a trade actually got a star in return?
Did the Rockets get a star for Harden?
Did the Pelicans get a star for KD?
Maybe you can claim that OKC got a star for Paul George, but that's stretching it - SGA was just promising.
Am I missing an example?

Just curious, what star demanded a trade who wasn't the best player on their team?

 

[illmatic99]

Just curious, what star demanded a trade who wasn't the best player on their team?

Would you consider KAT better than Jimmy?

Westbrook demanded out of Houston before Harden was traded.

But ya, neither resulted in star returns in the trades.

 

[blazerkor]

If Morey loses games over this he's a fool. The fact is that the longer this plays out the more teams are going to feel that they have the leverage over the Sixers. So if a bigger star becomes available they'll either ask for Simmons and a ton more or just make a trade with another team. Morey has put himself in a bad position and it just gets worse from here.

 

[Buffalo Custard]

It always fascinates me when a player demands a trade, then does nothing to actually facilitate a deal happening. Working together to get a deal done seems like simple common sense.

 

[illmatic99]

It always fascinates me when a player demands a trade, then does nothing to actually facilitate a deal happening. Working together to get a deal done seems like simple common sense.

It's been reported that Rich Paul has tried to facilitate deals since the initial request in June, but Morey's demands have been so exorbitant that teams aren't cooperating. It was in an Athletic article I believe-- gotta dig that out.