Trade Ben Simmons poll

[Hoopguru]

Giving up Ant & Nurk, 37 pts, 15 rbds, 6 assist for a guy averaging 6 pts? I know you hope to get FRP's but?
I think Nash would have had him playing the 5 if he thought he would be effective.

 

[oldmangrouch]

You're going to squabble over 15lbs when these guys were one year out of high school?

It's cool, a lot of you are completely convinced that Ben Simmons' best basketball is behind him and I'm still leaning towards his best ball being in front of him.

I have to admit, this take baffles me. He got what he wanted, and he is still pouting and playing like crap. Even if you think his bad attitude in Philly was justified (I don't) what reason does he have to be dogging it in NJ?

 

[Hoopguru]

I have to admit, this take baffles me. He got what he wanted, and he is still pouting and playing like crap. Even if you think his bad attitude in Philly was justified (I don't) what reason does he have to be dogging it in NJ?

40 million a year for an NBA guard that cant shoot?

 

[illmatic99]

I just listened to their podcast bit about KD trades. I am not gonna take those guys seriously LOL.

“Tyus Jones, Dillon Brooks, Danny Green, and whatever picks”

Why would BRK ever do something like that?

They also listed Portland as a “Cinderella” team.

it's obviously speculation.

but KD is *maybe* more undervalued now than he ever has been.

 

[tlongII]

You're going to squabble over 15lbs when these guys were one year out of high school?

It's cool, a lot of you are completely convinced that Ben Simmons' best basketball is behind him and I'm still leaning towards his best ball being in front of him.

You think Simmons is as thick as Bam? You go with that then.

 

[Hoopguru]

If you could get Durant without giving up Dame, Sharpe & Grant you have to give it serious consideration.

 

[blazerkor]

I have to admit, this take baffles me. He got what he wanted, and he is still pouting and playing like crap. Even if you think his bad attitude in Philly was justified (I don't) what reason does he have to be dogging it in NJ?

That he still doesn't have his shit straightened out and Brooklyn doesn't have the kind of leadership that would help him. That team is in shambles and it's not just Ben. So yeah, I do think that between now and the end of the prime of a 26 year old with that much size, athleticism, talent and skill that a coach and/or teammates will help him get his shit together. Therefore I lean towards his best basketball being in front of him.

 

[blazerkor]

You think Simmons is as thick as Bam? You go with that then.

I think the difference is negligible. The in game pictures lack perspective but...

 

[Idog1976]

I don't think there needs to be a long conversation and I don't think it has to be Dame or Chauncey let alone both of them. I think it takes one question. We need you to dunk the ball at least ten times a game playing in the P&R with Dame, do you think you can do that along with all of the other great stuff you've shown over your career? If the dude doesn't think he can commit to doing that then you don't fuck with him, if he says yeah he can do that then you trade Ant and Nurk for him and how many ever FRPs you can get from the Nets.

Yeah for that big a trade I think Due Diligence is very necessary.

 

[oldmangrouch]

That he still doesn't have his shit straightened out and Brooklyn doesn't have the kind of leadership that would help him. That team is in shambles and it's not just Ben. So yeah, I do think that between now and the end of the prime of a 26 year old with that much size, athleticism, talent and skill that a coach and/or teammates will help him get his shit together. Therefore I lean towards his best basketball being in front of him.

I agree that the Nets are a mess - but shouldn't Simmons be one of the leaders fighting to straighten things out? He's being paid an awful lot to be a follower instead of a leader.

 

[blazerkor]

I agree that the Nets are a mess - but shouldn't Simmons be one of the leaders fighting to straighten things out? He's being paid an awful lot to be a follower instead of a leader.

Oh shit, I think with the problems he's had this past year plus you don't want to bring him on your team to be a leader but more so to be lead to be the best he can be which is fucking fantastic. I'm not saying he's not a self starter in certain aspects of the game but leading others isn't one of those and he needs someone who can tell him in a way he can handle, to put the fucking ball through the hole. I happen to think Dame and Chauncey are the perfect guys to do that.

 

[Strenuus]

I don't think there needs to be a long conversation and I don't think it has to be Dame or Chauncey let alone both of them. I think it takes one question. We need you to dunk the ball at least ten times a game playing in the P&R with Dame, do you think you can do that along with all of the other great stuff you've shown over your career? If the dude doesn't think he can commit to doing that then you don't fuck with him, if he says yeah he can do that then you trade Ant and Nurk for him and how many ever FRPs you can get from the Nets.

He sucks.

 

[blazerkor]

He sucks.

He sure didn't for almost his entire career. The Hawks series and these 9 games are enough to nullify four great seasons?

 

[oldmangrouch]

He sure didn't for almost his entire career. The Hawks series and these 9 games are enough to nullify four great seasons?

Not at all. Even great players can have a bad play-off series. It is the way he dealt with it that puts people off.

This may seem odd, but I would compare his psychological reaction to a player who lost an eye or a limb in an accident. I'm convinced he will never again be mentally whole. Many people have questioned whether he is weak and immature - and that's certainly fair. I would add I don't think he has any passion for the game. If he really loved the game and was playing for something other than that monster paycheck I believe he would have reacted very differently.

 

[blazerkor]

Not at all. Even great players can have a bad play-off series. It is the way he dealt with it that puts people off.

This may seem odd, but I would compare his psychological reaction to a player who lost an eye or a limb in an accident. I'm convinced he will never again be mentally whole. Many people have questioned whether he is weak and immature - and that's certainly fair. I would add I don't think he has any passion for the game. If he really loved the game and was playing for something other than that monster paycheck I believe he would have reacted very differently.

It's not odd but for a person with more than one degree in psychology it's preposterous. I mean, are you serious right now?!? The idea that he'll never get back to what he sustained for likely over a decade (without a diagnosis that insists on a schizophrenic or at least schizotypal break is really nuts) way further down the spectrum of insanity than having performance anxiety and not coming back from that immediately in a chaotic environment. It shouldn't take the education that I have but I guess everyone doesn't have the same perspective.

I'll say it one more time and let it be. Ben Simmons has not played his best basketball unless a career ending injury takes the game away from him.

 

[BankTeller]

it's obviously speculation.

but KD is *maybe* more undervalued now than he ever has been.

Undervalued? Sure, maybe by a little bit. But that doesn’t mean they’d trade him for just to make a trade, and one that doesn’t make sense for them at that. That means not trading KD for vets imo.

 

[oldmangrouch]

It's not odd but for a person with more than one degree in psychology it's preposterous. I mean, are you serious right now?!? The idea that he'll never get back to what he sustained for likely over a decade (without a diagnosis that insists on a schizophrenic or at least schizotypal break is really nuts) way further down the spectrum of insanity than having performance anxiety and not coming back from that immediately in a chaotic environment. It shouldn't take the education that I have but I guess everyone doesn't have the same perspective.

I'll say it one more time and let it be. Ben Simmons has not played his best basketball unless a career ending injury takes the game away from him.

You are certainly passionate about the issue!

 

[blazerkor]

You are certainly passionate about the issue!

I just don't think you can count someone out because of one plus years of crippling anxiety, after more than a decade of greatness at multiple levels. There have been many that have been crippled by anxiety and panic but when I see Ben out there playing, I don't see one of them. So I'm predicting that he reaches levels that he's never reached before and that anxiety and/or depression are a simple backdrop to his success. (Just so you know this is coming from hope and experience). Go Ben Simmons!!!

 

[BonesJones]

I changed my vote and was clearly wrong about Simmons. That said Ant + Nurk for Simmons and 2 FRP especially if they are from other worse teams is somewhat enticing. I just am not sure if he's washed. I'd want a full psych evaluation and for Lillard and Chauncey to have a LONG conversation or three with him before hand.

I typed out the reply and then realize that we were the team getting 2 FRPs. Almost thought you had us giving up 2 FRPs.

Still, this team is extremely cohesive and balanced and that matters. Simmons would detract from that.

 

[BankTeller]

If Ben is available and the Nets are being reasonable, after January 15, this is my trade that I'd accept (I would likely start the conversation with two firsts but then let them whittle me down to one).
View attachment 50685

Ben would start at Center and he would ideally play all of his minutes there. That doesn't mean he couldn't initiate the offense (including bringing the ball up) on certain plays it just means he would be our 5 when he is in. I think we would then want to pick up a backup C off of the buyout market or just a free agent and possibly a backup PG although with all of the guys that can initiate the offense (Winslow, Hart, Keon, obviously Dame and Ben) we wouldn't really need that backup PG because GP2 could backup the 1 spot with someone else running point.

I think that a rotation of Dame, Shaedon, Hart, Grant, Simmons, Justise, GP3, Nas and possibly someone like our good friend LaMarcus Aldridge would make a lot of noise in the playoffs and be a very elite defensive team along with being an extremely potent offensive team.

I would see if Hart, GPII, and Nurk can get Ben, and forget about adding any picks on their end.

We haven’t seen GPII on the court yet, so if he make THAT big of an impact, my mind might change. But I want Simons WITH Ant. A lot of money is going to be tied up to just four players in Dame, Ant, Simmons, and Grant. But with exciting young guys like Nas, Keon, Shae, Walker, and Watford who are all cheap through Ben’s contract and can contribute, I don’t mind tying that much money up.

Dame/Simons/Keon
Simons/Sharpe/Keon
Ben/Winslow/Nas
Grant/Nas/Walker/Watford/GBIII
Watford/Ben/Eubanks/Sarr

You definitely have to find a few bigger bodies that can shoot 3’s (if Ben at C doesn’t work out) in the coming summer, but yeah if you can get Ben without giving up Ant, I’d do it 10/10 times. I’d rather keep Ant than get some 1sts.

 

[BankTeller]

I typed out the reply and then realize that we were the team getting 2 FRPs. Almost thought you had us giving up 2 FRPs.

Still, this team is extremely cohesive and balanced and that matters. Simmons would detract from that.

Would you consider the trade I stated right above? Assuming Blazers defense is great with or without GPII.

 

[BonesJones]

Would you consider the trade I stated right above? Assuming Blazers defense is great with or without GPII.

Absolutely not. We need Nurk's rebounding and screen setting and even his floor spacing is better than Ben's.

I'm not sure GPII can't have a similar impact defensively. Yes he's much smaller but he defends bigger than he is. Analytics paint him as a guy who guards 4 positions at an elite level. He's a better cutter than Ben and he shot 36% on some volume last year (Imagine if Simmons did that). I'd rather have that offensively then whatever Ben provides.

Ben's a good defensive player but offensively he doesn't have a role that he makes sense in. This team is winning games because their role players complement each other well, have specific strengths that make them easy to fit into a specific role, and they're playing well off each other.

Plus, you have Winslow in a similar role as Simmons plays. He's not as good but the Blazers don't need him to be. They have a ton of playmaking and don't need Simmons in that regard. Also, Simmons has been horrible in Brooklyn so far. Don't understand trading two starters and another elite defender for him.

 

[sheed30]

My god, are you guys serious? Simmons has been looking worse than ever, big contract, heck Winslow is just as good as him right now, maybe even better.

you guys are crazy man, stay away from Simmons at all cost. He is regressing guys, I can’t believe some of you still want him.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

OK, looking back, I think we dodged a bullet here, as I love Josh Hart, and even though I may be the last person in the world still intrigued by Simmons' unique skill set (and prepared to look past his GLARING deficits), Hart is all around (ESPECIALLY when you include his personality) more valuable than Simmons right now. HOWEVER, given this:

Ben Simmons’s Name in Trade Talks As Nets Hope to Salvage Season, per Report

I would be prepared to offer this:

View attachment 50678

I'm pretty sure I'm the only one, though, and it's only because (a) I've never been the biggest Jerami Grant fan, and (b) I actually think Jabari Walker will make Jerami kind of redundant soon anyway. Oh, and (c) if we trade Payton II before he ever plays for us, we won't miss him. Although we can't trade him until Dec 15th (as it says) so he's likely to have played for us (and Simmons traded by the Nets) by then...

(It's a shame we don't have Lonnie Walker IV to keep the numbers going...)

Suddenly changed my mind about Jerami...

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I'm not sure GPII can't have a similar impact defensively. Yes he's much smaller but he defends bigger than he is. Analytics paint him as a guy who guards 4 positions at an elite level. He's a better cutter than Ben and he shot 36% on some volume last year (Imagine if Simmons did that). I'd rather have that offensively then whatever Ben provides.

If Payton explains the difference between the Warriors last year and the Warriors this year, then he must be fucking amazing

 

[sheed30]

That he still doesn't have his shit straightened out and Brooklyn doesn't have the kind of leadership that would help him. That team is in shambles and it's not just Ben. So yeah, I do think that between now and the end of the prime of a 26 year old with that much size, athleticism, talent and skill that a coach and/or teammates will help him get his shit together. Therefore I lean towards his best basketball being in front of him.

Ben Simmons is in shambles man, open your eyes

 

[sheed30]

It's not odd but for a person with more than one degree in psychology it's preposterous. I mean, are you serious right now?!? The idea that he'll never get back to what he sustained for likely over a decade (without a diagnosis that insists on a schizophrenic or at least schizotypal break is really nuts) way further down the spectrum of insanity than having performance anxiety and not coming back from that immediately in a chaotic environment. It shouldn't take the education that I have but I guess everyone doesn't have the same perspective.

I'll say it one more time and let it be. Ben Simmons has not played his best basketball unless a career ending injury takes the game away from him.

Lol he has

 

[PtldPlatypus]

If Payton explains the difference between the Warriors last year and the Warriors this year, then he must be fucking amazing

This is honestly the part that's incredible to me. I mean, besides Payton, did the Warriors lose any other significant pieces from last year? Otto Porter, maybe? I just can't believe that losing their 7th and 8th men has resulted in such a precipitous drop-off.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

This is honestly the part that's incredible to me. I mean, besides Payton, did the Warriors lose any other significant pieces from last year? Otto Porter, maybe? I just can't believe that losing their 7th and 8th men has resulted in such a precipitous drop-off.

Sitting around celebrating all summer then punching each other in preseason probably didn't help either.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Simmons looks like a broken player. I wouldn't want him on that massive contract, has less trade value than nothing.

Once his deal ends or he gets bought out maybe he'd be worth exploring for the MLE.

Nets are now winning without him and without Kyrie. I don't think that's a coincidence.