Politics Biden will drop student loan forgiveness from next week's budget

[Natebishop3]

That statement kind of proves my point.

When you went to college,, even after you were married and had kids, college was far more affordable.

Since 1963, the cost of going to college has increased 143%, which is well above the inflation rate.

When my parents went to college, it was about 400 bucks a *QUARTER*.

The cost to go to college now?

PSU, OSU and UO are currently, if you live off campus, over 10K per year. In fact, OSU and PSU are both over 12K now. And that's just tuition.

Let's not act like you can just 'work' and go to college like you used to be able to. Yes, there are scholarships/pell grants, etc, but the costs of college has totally go out of whack with inflation and what the average person can afford to send their kids to school.

And unlike other loans, you can't file bankruptcy if the shit hits the fan. It's a racket.

And not only that, your own kids are old enough to have kids in college, so they're probably in their 40's or maybe even late 40's. College *20*+ years ago was more affordable than it is now.

There are stories of people (myself included) who have paid on their student loans for years (in my case, 10+ years) and have paid more than the minimum, and owe the same amount that I did when I left.

Student loan debt isn't good debt. A house is a good debt. But student loan debt can be restrictive when it comes to getting a loan for a house. And yes, I understand that I agreed to take on a student loan, but it's pretty much a ponzi scheme. To succeed in the field you need to get this degree, but to get this degree you need to pay 30K in student loans, because universities are a racket.

The whole thing is set up to gouge young adults. It's absurd. The text books especially are a blatant way for them to steal money from kids. Higher education in America is shameful.

 

[Hoopguru]

That statement kind of proves my point.

When you went to college,, even after you were married and had kids, college was far more affordable.

Since 1963, the cost of going to college has increased 143%, which is well above the inflation rate.

When my parents went to college, it was about 400 bucks a *QUARTER*.

The cost to go to college now?

PSU, OSU and UO are currently, if you live off campus, over 10K per year. In fact, OSU and PSU are both over 12K now. And that's just tuition.

Let's not act like you can just 'work' and go to college like you used to be able to. Yes, there are scholarships/pell grants, etc, but the costs of college has totally go out of whack with inflation and what the average person can afford to send their kids to school.

And unlike other loans, you can't file bankruptcy if the shit hits the fan. It's a racket.

And not only that, your own kids are old enough to have kids in college, so they're probably in their 40's or maybe even late 40's. College *20*+ years ago was more affordable than it is now.

There are stories of people (myself included) who have paid on their student loans for years (in my case, 10+ years) and have paid more than the minimum, and owe the same amount that I did when I left.

Student loan debt isn't good debt. A house is a good debt. But student loan debt can be restrictive when it comes to getting a loan for a house. And yes, I understand that I agreed to take on a student loan, but it's pretty much a ponzi scheme. To succeed in the field you need to get this degree, but to get this degree you need to pay 30K in student loans, because universities are a racket.

I agree with a lot of what you say. Its very important that all options are discussed and considered. A good percentage of kids that go to Universities could go to a community college or trade school of some sort.
Why cant a kid work part time while going to school full time. I did it and was married with a kid. Its no different now, time is time. Don't forget, kids regardless if in school or not, want the creature comforts like cell phones, taco bell money for gas and clothes and dating/partying.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

I'm fine with the over spending of those universities, but where do you think that money will come from? The same place (and probably at a higher cost) than it would to do something about the student loan debt (I don't think 50K a person is a reasonable or realistic goal though).

I’m gonna open up a can of worms and just say that NO ONE is entitled to a higher education as part of the American social contract. Especially not one provided out of the wallets of others. It is not a right, it is a privilege. As HCP pointed out, he joined the service for future educational benefits. In other words, he sacrificed 3(?) years of his life. He made a deal with the government and the government kept it’s part of the deal (how refreshing). Most people turn up their noses at that option and that’s okay. It’s all about choices. I had no desire to go to college and went into the service (another “educational” opportunity) to try and learn a useful skill. The post service educational benefits didn’t even register with me. Yet when I got out, those benefits not only paid my tuition, they helped defray my family’s living expenses. And the AS degree helped me progress in my chosen profession. My point is that we made use of an available option and avoided being saddled with long term debt at a time in our lives we could not afford it.

I’m not down on a four year education. My point is that it is not for everyone. Rather than gouge taxpayers further, work to change the system. Require the colleges who are charging such exorbitant tuitions to rebate at least part of those tuitions back out of their endowment funds (or wherever). Or start boycotting four year colleges until they make education more affordable. A four year degree should NOT come out of my pocket. It’s all about choices. People chose to attend the university. People chose to take on that debt with eyes wide open. Yes, it sucks and (IMHO) it is dishonest. But it is the reality. If people don’t want the debt, don’t take it on. And don’t expect others to foot the bill when the going gets tough. If you can’t pay the rent, you get evicted. If you can’t make the car payment, you get repoed. If you can’t pay the electric bill, the lights go out. But if you can’t pay your student loans you still get to keep your education. That’s a bargain no matter how you slice it……and exactly why you went to college in the first place. So don’t ask me to pay for something no one can take away from you. I’m not going to pay for your rent, car or utilities (all far more critical to daily survival) so why should I pay for your education?

 

[julius]

The whole thing is set up to gouge young adults. It's absurd. The text books especially are a blatant way for them to steal money from kids. Higher education in America is shameful.

Yep. It shouldn't be a money making scheme like it is. They'll never change it (capitalism rules!), and it's just going to get worse and harder for kids to go to school/bad for the economy.

you'd think schools would want MORE kids going to school, even if it meant each one paid less.

10000 kids paying 10K a year isn't better than 15K kids paying 7500 a year.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yep. It shouldn't be a money making scheme like it is. They'll never change it (capitalism rules!), and it's just going to get worse and harder for kids to go to school/bad for the economy.

you'd think schools would want MORE kids going to school, even if it meant each one paid less.

10000 kids paying 10K a year isn't better than 15K kids paying 7500 a year.

The weird part, to me anyway, is how the hell do government run organizations go to a for-profit mentality? While I was at PSU, I was working as a student in the contracts office and the amount of money going out is insane. Absolutely insane. They're constantly building. They were getting ready to spend 10s of millions of dollars on a stupid basketball arena while I was there. Basketball...... at a school that doesn't give a rats ass about sports.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Yep. It shouldn't be a money making scheme like it is. They'll never change it (capitalism rules!), and it's just going to get worse and harder for kids to go to school/bad for the economy.

you'd think schools would want MORE kids going to school, even if it meant each one paid less.

10000 kids paying 10K a year isn't better than 15K kids paying 7500 a year.

The supreme irony is that, to hear the Right tell it, American universities are hot beds of Socialism when the reality is that they are first class examples of American Capitalism……..

 

[julius]

I’m gonna open up a can of worms and just say that NO ONE is entitled to a higher education as part of the American social contract.

I agree that no one is entitled. But when you segregate your society based on who can afford stuff vs who can't, you aren't doing your society any good.

Especially not one provided out of the wallets of others. It is not a right, it is a privilege. As HCP pointed out, he joined the service for future educational benefits. In other words, he sacrificed 3(?) years of his life. He made a deal with the government and the government kept it’s part of the deal (how refreshing).

That's awesome that he did that. But it's not an option for everyone. There are about 20 million college students each year (not NEW students, just total). That # dwarfs the # in the military. There aren't 20 million openings (or 5 million if you make an estimate of 20 million/4 years of college, etc) in the military.

If they did 10% per year (aprox 150 billion per year), that'd still be a better use of the money.

Most people turn up their noses at that option and that’s okay. It’s all about choices. I had no desire to go to college and went into the service (another “educational” opportunity) to try and learn a useful skill. The post service educational benefits didn’t even register with me. Yet when I got out, those benefits not only paid my tuition, they helped defray my family’s living expenses. And the AS degree helped me progress in my chosen profession. My point is that we made use of an available option and avoided being saddled with long term debt at a time in our lives we could not afford it.

I’m not down on a four year education. My point is that it is not for everyone. Rather than gouge taxpayers further, work to change the system. Require the colleges who are charging such exorbitant tuitions to rebate at least part of those tuitions back out of their endowment funds (or wherever). Or start boycotting four year colleges until they make education more affordable. A four year degree should NOT come out of my pocket. It’s all about choices. People chose to attend the university. People chose to take on that debt with eyes wide open. Yes, it sucks and (IMHO) it is dishonest. But it is the reality. If people don’t want the debt, don’t take it on. And don’t expect others to foot the bill when the going gets tough. If you can’t pay the rent, you get evicted. If you can’t make the car payment, you get repoed. If you can’t pay the electric bill, the lights go out. But if you can’t pay your student loans you still get to keep your education. That’s a bargain no matter how you slice it……

Yeah, but go find out what happens if you default on your student loans.

Vs what happens if you don't pay your rent or car gets repoed?

You can eventually negotiate your way out of that debt. You can't negotiate your way out of student loan debt.

and exactly why you went to college in the first place. So don’t ask me to pay for something no one can take away from you. I’m not going to pay for your rent, car or utilities (all far more critical to daily survival) so why should I pay for your education?

Why should i pay for k1-12 kids education when I don't have any? Why should I pay for a war I don't believe in? Why should I pay to support other countries?

There's a lot of money spent on stuff i don't agree with.

 

[julius]

I agree with a lot of what you say. Its very important that all options are discussed and considered. A good percentage of kids that go to Universities could go to a community college or trade school of some sort.
Why cant a kid work part time while going to school full time. I did it and was married with a kid. Its no different now, time is time. Don't forget, kids regardless if in school or not, want the creature comforts like cell phones, taco bell money for gas and clothes and dating/partying.

Again, that's a small % of the debt issue.

 

[tester551]

That statement kind of proves my point.

When you went to college,, even after you were married and had kids, college was far more affordable.

Since 1963, the cost of going to college has increased 143%, which is well above the inflation rate.

When my parents went to college, it was about 400 bucks a *QUARTER*.

The cost to go to college now?

PSU, OSU and UO are currently, if you live off campus, over 10K per year. In fact, OSU and PSU are both over 12K now. And that's just tuition.

Let's not act like you can just 'work' and go to college like you used to be able to. Yes, there are scholarships/pell grants, etc, but the costs of college has totally go out of whack with inflation and what the average person can afford to send their kids to school.

And unlike other loans, you can't file bankruptcy if the shit hits the fan. It's a racket.

And not only that, your own kids are old enough to have kids in college, so they're probably in their 40's or maybe even late 40's. College *20*+ years ago was more affordable than it is now.

There are stories of people (myself included) who have paid on their student loans for years (in my case, 10+ years) and have paid more than the minimum, and owe the same amount that I did when I left.

Student loan debt isn't good debt. A house is a good debt. But student loan debt can be restrictive when it comes to getting a loan for a house. And yes, I understand that I agreed to take on a student loan, but it's pretty much a ponzi scheme. To succeed in the field you need to get this degree, but to get this degree you need to pay 30K in student loans, because universities are a racket.

Wiping out the student loans is treating the symptom instead of the disease.
Why has the cost of college soared so high? I'd argue it's a direct result of the proliferation of the student loans.

Kids are encouraged (almost forced) into these student loans without any fair discussion about the potential downside. This is definitely a predatory process.
Kids are also indoctrinated that if they want to be successful, they need to go to college... So much so, that the kids believe that soon as they get their degree - that they'll be set for life. The entire premise and discussion of college needs to change significantly.

Again, student loans are a MASSIVE issue that needs to be addressed. Wiping out the loans only TEMPORARILY fixes the symptom. Without a structural change to the system - we'll be right back to where we are (and probably in a worse situation).

I agree student loan debt is not good debt. The system needs to be fixed ASAP. The correct fix is to set all student loan interest rates to 0%. This will make it so the loan amounts can't grow (or even stay static) after paying on it for 10+years. I'd even be fine with going back retro-actively and recalibrating the interest rates to help people in this never ending spiral.

However, just wiping the debt away is the wrong course of action.

 

[Hoopguru]

Again, that's a small % of the debt issue.

Whats your solution?

 

[julius]

Whats your solution?

If we want to compete with other nations, we need to make college affordable, and forgive most of the debt.


Right now it's at 1.5 trillion (or thereabouts). That's money that isn't going back into the economy, isn't buying goods, isn't buying homes, cars, etc.

Let's say you pay 3K a year in student loans (which is kind of on the low end). That's 3000 bucks one could spend on goods and services. The person (or business) you spend that money in, pays taxes on it. They also could then buy more stuff and that $ gets taxed to. And so on and so on.

College shouldn't be free, BUT it shouldn't cost as much as a car. My nephew is going to school in California, and it's costing his parents 50K a year. They can afford it, but his education shouldn't cost them 50K a year for ONE year.

 

[Natebishop3]

If we want to compete with other nations, we need to make college affordable, and forgive most of the debt.


Right now it's at 1.5 trillion (or thereabouts). That's money that isn't going back into the economy, isn't buying goods, isn't buying homes, cars, etc.

Let's say you pay 3K a year in student loans (which is kind of on the low end). That's 3000 bucks one could spend on goods and services. The person (or business) you spend that money in, pays taxes on it. They also could then buy more stuff and that $ gets taxed to. And so on and so on.

College shouldn't be free, BUT it shouldn't cost as much as a car. My nephew is going to school in California, and it's costing his parents 50K a year. They can afford it, but his education shouldn't cost them 50K a year for ONE year.

Also, the change needs to happen further down the line. Middle schools and High schools need to alter their aim from trying to guide all kids to college. They need to spend more time talking about the trades and exploring careers that don't require higher education. Not everyone needs to go to college to be successful.

The other major change that needs to happen is stop telling kids that college is meant to be the best time of their lives. We have all these kids who feel like they need to go to college or they're missing out. Nobody should have to pay that much money to go have fun and learn about themselves. There are so many things wrong with how our society treats college. We have kids who go to school for four years, rack up a bunch of debt, and leave with a degree that won't get them any closer to an actual career after school.

 

[THE HCP]

So my daughter is finishing up her sophomore year of HS. She just sent out her first batch of emails to coaches and recruiters that she wants to play soccer for, hoping they show some interest in her. Some who responded, Gonzaga.... 63K a year, Santa Clara.... 75K a year.... and Pepperdine.....75k a year, Portland..... 65K
REALLY HOPING SHE GETS A FULL RIDE!

 

[bigbailes]

The whole thing is set up to gouge young adults. It's absurd. The text books especially are a blatant way for them to steal money from kids. Higher education in America is shameful.

Don't get me started on professors that write their own books and change things around every couple of years, forcing you to buy the brand new version instead of the used one. It was the biggest scam ever considering the content was 99% the same.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Again, that's a small % of the debt issue.

But those little costs add up. And if a college education is the goal, then lattes can wait until the future. When I was a kid, my dad used to say that if you save a nickel (back when it was worth something) instead of spending it on crap, it was a nickel (plus compound interest) you’d have in the future if you needed it. I used to roll my eyes every time but he was right. He and my mom scrimped on fricking EVERYTHING (except a Catholic education ironically enough) in order to build a self sustaining foundation for later in life when they really needed it. They didn’t take on debt they couldn’t afford. And they did not offer to pay for our college because they felt if we wanted it bad enough, we’d find a way to fund it ourselves. So we did. They had a lot of those nickels put by because of the choices they made. It all adds up and people need to prioritize just what their goals actually are……and pay for them themselves……

 

[Shaboid]

So my daughter is finishing up her sophomore year of HS. She just sent out her first batch of emails to coaches and recruiters that she wants to play soccer for, hoping they show some interest in her. Some who responded, Gonzaga.... 63K a year, Santa Clara.... 75K a year.... and Pepperdine.....75k a year, Portland..... 65K
REALLY HOPING SHE GETS A FULL RIDE!

No full ride? Looks like she'll have to serve in the military!

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Also, the change needs to happen further down the line. Middle schools and High schools need to alter their aim from trying to guide all kids to college. They need to spend more time talking about the trades and exploring careers that don't require higher education. Not everyone needs to go to college to be successful.

The other major change that needs to happen is stop telling kids that college is meant to be the best time of their lives. We have all these kids who feel like they need to go to college or they're missing out. Nobody should have to pay that much money to go have fun and learn about themselves. There are so many things wrong with how our society treats college. We have kids who go to school for four years, rack up a bunch of debt, and leave with a degree that won't get them any closer to an actual career after school.

We need to model our education system on the Germans. At least as I understand it, they pretty much have it figured out by the beginning of high school (or their equivalent) which kids are on a technical track and which are on a college track. And then they funnel them in the direction to which they are most suited. I may have it wrong, and if so I hope our European posters will set me straight……

 

[RR7]

But those little costs add up. And if a college education is the goal, then lattes can wait until the future. When I was a kid, my dad used to say that if you save a nickel (back when it was worth something) instead of spending it on crap, it was a nickel (plus compound interest) you’d have in the future if you needed it. I used to roll my eyes every time but he was right. He and my mom scrimped on fricking EVERYTHING (except a Catholic education ironically enough) in order to build a self sustaining foundation for later in life when they really needed it. They didn’t take on debt they couldn’t afford. And they did not offer to pay for our college because they felt if we wanted it bad enough, we’d find a way to fund it ourselves. So we did. They had a lot of those nickels put by because of the choices they made. It all adds up and people need to prioritize just what their goals actually are……and pay for them themselves……

Tuition at portland state, just tuition, not books, housing, etc. is 10k per year.

This isn't, choose lattes or choose an education. That's over 5 lattes a day, every single day!
The expectation of, why not just work part time, even at a 15 dollar minimum wage, if they're working 30 hours a week every week of the year, that's 23k, BEFORE taxes. To fully pay for achool, and books. And hopefully be able to afford a place to live and food to eat.

But yeah, if they sacrifice their lattes, it's doable!

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

So my daughter is finishing up her sophomore year of HS. She just sent out her first batch of emails to coaches and recruiters that she wants to play soccer for, hoping they show some interest in her. Some who responded, Gonzaga.... 63K a year, Santa Clara.... 75K a year.... and Pepperdine.....75k a year, Portland..... 65K
REALLY HOPING SHE GETS A FULL RIDE!

How much is PSU? 2 of those are Jesuit schools, 1 is Catholic and 1 is Christian. Private Universities are pricy!

Pepperdine is in Malibu, what do you expect bro

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

 

[Hoopguru]

Wife and I paid off our student loans long ago. Our children have several years until they go to college, so we don't have to worry about this yet. But I hope that those with student loan debts have rich aunts/uncles because it's looking like it will get worse for them with hyper inflation a real possibility in the near future.

It took my wife ten years to pay off her's including masters.
I paid mine off in about 4 years but I only had two years at PSU. Community College when I went was reasonable.
My son went to Oregon & daughters (3) Western, we chipped in but it took them years to pay off.
I have two other sons, one became a electricians helper, got into apprenticeship for 5 years and has been a journeyman for a number of years now. Another son National Guard and Warehouseman.

 

[barfo]

Wiping out the student loans is treating the symptom instead of the disease.
Why has the cost of college soared so high? I'd argue it's a direct result of the proliferation of the student loans.

Kids are encouraged (almost forced) into these student loans without any fair discussion about the potential downside. This is definitely a predatory process.
Kids are also indoctrinated that if they want to be successful, they need to go to college... So much so, that the kids believe that soon as they get their degree - that they'll be set for life. The entire premise and discussion of college needs to change significantly.

Again, student loans are a MASSIVE issue that needs to be addressed. Wiping out the loans only TEMPORARILY fixes the symptom. Without a structural change to the system - we'll be right back to where we are (and probably in a worse situation).

I agree student loan debt is not good debt. The system needs to be fixed ASAP. The correct fix is to set all student loan interest rates to 0%. This will make it so the loan amounts can't grow (or even stay static) after paying on it for 10+years. I'd even be fine with going back retro-actively and recalibrating the interest rates to help people in this never ending spiral.

However, just wiping the debt away is the wrong course of action.

I generally agree. If we wipe out the debt now, but don't do anything about the problem, what happens? Logically, kids going to school in the future will assume their loans will eventually be cancelled, so they'll be more inclined to run up debt, not less. I don't know what the long-term solution is here, other than to reduce demand for college education and thus increase price competition. Or maybe in the future Americans will go to China for higher education.

barfo

 

[Hoopguru]

I generally agree. If we wipe out the debt now, but don't do anything about the problem, what happens? Logically, kids going to school in the future will assume their loans will eventually be cancelled, so they'll be more inclined to run up debt, not less. I don't know what the long-term solution is here, other than to reduce demand for college education and thus increase price competition. Or maybe in the future Americans will go to China for higher education.

barfo

Parents need to have the discussion with their kids that college isn't the only avenue to carve out a career.

 

[barfo]

Parents need to have the discussion with their kids that college isn't the only avenue to carve out a career.

I agree with you. The cost/benefit has changed drastically. I'm a big fan of college - it was the best 9 years of my life - but it isn't infinitely valuable.

barfo

 

[THE HCP]

How much is PSU? 2 of those are Jesuit schools, 1 is Catholic and 1 is Christian. Private Universities are pricy!

Pepperdine is in Malibu, what do you expect bro

27K

 

[ABM]

I agree with you. The cost/benefit has changed drastically. I'm a big fan of college - it was the best 9 years of my life - but it isn't infinitely valuable.

barfo

I do have some regrets not graduating high school, while foregoing college/degree. But, it doesn't necessarily mean I'd trade back my resulting my career path for that sake.

 

[julius]

I do have some regrets not graduating high school, while foregoing college/degree. But, it doesn't necessarily mean I'd trade back my resulting my career path for that sake.

I think you reach an age where you think "screw that, I'm not going back to school."

though it's probably easier to have not gone to college 30-50 years ago than today, not that it's a 100% requirement today.

 

[Bob Dobalina]

Thats what I had to do. Good thing is, it helped us get our first house!

Same here!

 

[ABM]

I think you reach an age where you think "screw that, I'm not going back to school."

though it's probably easier to have not gone to college 30-50 years ago than today, not that it's a 100% requirement today.

The only school I'm doing right now is what might be equivalent to a masters degree in commercial real estate. I just passed the first (of four) course, so basically just getting started. As listed below, it's a combination of schooling, sales, and final exam:

Earning the CCIM Designation
While the exact requirements vary among different membership types, there are certain commonalities among them all. Every candidate for the CCIM designation is required to complete an education component, pass the Comprehensive Exam, complete a membership application, and pay annual dues. All candidates except Fast Track members will also have to submit a Portfolio of Qualifying Experience for review.

Education Component
The education component of earning your CCIM designation is comprised of a four-course curriculum, an online ethics course, negotiation training, and elective courses from the Ward Center for Real Estate Studies. Your membership type will determine how many education requirements you'll need to fulfill.

Visit the membership types page to learn about your specific requirements.

Portfolio of Qualifying Experience
To demonstrate their experience in commercial real estate, designation candidates must submit a portfolio of qualifying activities, transactions, projects, or work products. This portfolio can take one of three forms, depending on your level of experience and the type of work that will be included.

Transactional portfolios must meet minimum volume requirements:

• Three (3) or more qualifying activities totaling $30 million or more; or
• Exactly ten (10) qualifying activities totaling $10 million or more; or
• Twenty (20) qualifying activities with no dollar volume requirement.

Learn more about the portfolio requirements.

Comprehensive Exam
The Comprehensive Exam is a full-day exam testing your mastery of the concepts introduced in the core CCIM courses. It's preceded by the two-day Course Concepts Review, allowing designation candidates the opportunity to review the key topics that will be covered on the exam.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Bingo, bingo....give the dude a prize!

He got a prize - he has me as his son.

And to be fair... my parents were fair and stepped up to the plate. They didn’t owe me anything. We made a deal and both sides honored it. But I’d like to think, through the ups and downs that any family goes through, I’ve done what I can to repay and be generous in my own right. And to me, that’s how it should work out.