Bill Walton ready to make ammends with Portland

[Blazer_Hippie]

I don't get why people refuse to hold others accountable for their actions. If he wants to be forgiven, he should ask his god (Jerry Garcia). What has he done to be forgiven?

I'm glad to know that apparently SnakeOiler has never made a mistake or done anything wrong in his life. Must be nice to be perfect...

I'm mean, you REALLY think it's appropriate to hold onto a grudge against the man for something he did when he was a kid??

 

[julius]

After giving us a Championship, Bill was treated about the same as Zach and Rasheed were.

The exact same mentality that blew up our last good team.

It took courage for him to leave and I never blamed him at all for it.

wait...do you mean Pippen getting old, Sabas getting old, Trader Bob bringing in Detlef and Rod and Greg Anthony getting injured/old, Dale Davis being old, Brian Grant wanting to be traded, getting Derek Anderson (who sucked) and Trader Bob trading Jermaine was all because of how the fans treated the players?

 

[Shooter]

I was over it until some said he was the best blazer ever.

He WAS the best Blazer ever. There's no doubt about it in my mind. He took a team of nobodies (i.e. Dave Twardzik, Bobby Gross, Lloyd Neal, Larry Steele, Wally Walker, Corky Calhoun, Robin Jones) and led them to an NBA title. You can disagree, of course, but even so, who cares? It's just my opinion, and everybody has one.

Then he wants to make ammends.

Uh, okay . . . is there something wrong with making amends??

Walton has a lot to do with the way players get treated today by the public and the media and apparently he knows it.

This is absurd. Walton never attacked a referee, never got in a fight, never shot or stabbed anyone, never yelled racial epithets at his coach, never threw a towel in a teammate's face, never attended dog fights, was never suspended for drug abuse, never went to rehab, never missed practice or team flights, etc., etc. He was a poster boy for the NBA compared to the likes of Rashweed Wallace, Bonzi Wells, Shawn Kemp, and Isaiah Rider.

Walton was a consumate pro, for the most part, and unfortunately he had a series of bad injuries which he never really recovered from. I would take him in a heartbeat over many of the spoiled, egotistical, jail-tattooed brats of today's NBA.

 

[oldmangrouch]

He WAS the best Blazer ever. There's no doubt about it in my mind. He took a team of nobodies (i.e. Dave Twardzik, Bobby Gross, Lloyd Neal, Larry Steele, Wally Walker, Corky Calhoun, Robin Jones) and led them to an NBA title. You can disagree, of course, but even so, who cares? It's just my opinion, and everybody has one.


Uh, okay . . . is there something wrong with making amends??


This is absurd. Walton never attacked a referee, never got in a fight, never shot or stabbed anyone, never yelled racial epithets at his coach, never threw a towel in a teammate's face, never attended dog fights, was never suspended for drug abuse, never went to rehab, never missed practice or team flights, etc., etc. He was a poster boy for the NBA compared to the likes of Rashweed Wallace, Bonzi Wells, Shawn Kemp, and Isaiah Rider.

Walton was a consumate pro, for the most part, and unfortunately he had a series of bad injuries which he never really recovered from. I would take him in a heartbeat over many of the spoiled, egotistical, jail-tattooed brats of today's NBA.

I like the careful way you word that.

No, Walton was never *suspended* or forced into rehab for his drugs. OTOH, he actually used more drugs than the entire JailBlazer roster combined.

But hey...it's OK, as long as everyone covered it up. Everybody knew Kareem smoked pot for his migraines - and he was never publically exposed or punished either. Just a different era. Just don't try to tell me that it was OK back then, and some sort of horrible crime now.

Oh, and BTW...."consumate pros" don't half-ass their way through rehab, or refuse to stop aggravating the situation with weird fad diets.

 

[oldmangrouch]

It occurs to me that this might be a good time for a bit of a history lesson.

Back in the 70s, the team didn't have a fancy, private practice facility. The team worked out at the Jewish Community Center (which my father built). In the fall of 77, they took their training camp to Willamette University (where I was attending law school). There was all sorts of "stuff" that went down in public that simply never made it into the media.

Walton had his opinion on drug use - and didn't care what people thought.

Walton had his opinion on diets and fasting - and didn't care what people thought.

Walton had his opinion on conditioning/rehab - and he didn't care what people thought.

If you want to believe his version of history, all of that had no impact on his injuries. I find that claim absurd.

One final note. Do you recall the shitstorm over Sheed tossing a towel at Sabonis, or a basketball at Boom-Boom? During their camp at WU, I watched the Blazers exercising in the WU pool. I watched Walton sneak up behind Lucas, grab him, and throw him into the shallow end of the pool with a pro-wrestling style suplex.

Hmmm. Towel in the face vs possible broken neck. Yep, Sheed was sure the worse offender!

 

[julius]

It occurs to me that this might be a good time for a bit of a history lesson.

Back in the 70s, the team didn't have a fancy, private practice facility. The team worked out at the Jewish Community Center (which my father built). In the fall of 77, they took their training camp to Willamette University (where I was attending law school). There was all sorts of "stuff" that went down in public that simply never made it into the media.

Walton had his opinion on drug use - and didn't care what people thought.

Walton had his opinion on diets and fasting - and didn't care what people thought.

Walton had his opinion on conditioning/rehab - and he didn't care what people thought.

If you want to believe his version of history, all of that had no impact on his injuries. I find that claim absurd.

One final note. Do you recall the shitstorm over Sheed tossing a towel at Sabonis, or a basketball at Boom-Boom? During their camp at WU, I watched the Blazers exercising in the WU pool. I watched Walton sneak up behind Lucas, grab him, and throw him into the shallow end of the pool with a pro-wrestling style suplex.

Hmmm. Towel in the face vs possible broken neck. Yep, Sheed was sure the worse offender!

damn, you are old...

anyways, you bring up good points. Although I think horse play in a pool is different than live on national TV. Not saying one is worse than the other (I think the towel thing got blown slightly out of proportion of how bad it really was though).

But like I said, you bring up valid points. I forgot what my initial reason for responding was, other than pointing out just how old you are.

In law school in 77...my god...did you come over on the wagon trains?

 

[oldmangrouch]

damn, you are old...

anyways, you bring up good points. Although I think horse play in a pool is different than live on national TV. Not saying one is worse than the other (I think the towel thing got blown slightly out of proportion of how bad it really was though).

But like I said, you bring up valid points. I forgot what my initial reason for responding was, other than pointing out just how old you are.

In law school in 77...my god...did you come over on the wagon trains?

Yep. Worse then that, this was before we stumbled on the notion that wheels were supposed to be round! Can you imagine crossing the Rockies in wagons with square wheels!

 

[julius]

Yep. Worse then that, this was before we stumbled on the notion that wheels were supposed to be round! Can you imagine crossing the Rockies in wagons with square wheels!

I bet that made having sex in a moving wagon fun though.

 

[Shooter]

Walton had his opinion on drug use - and didn't care what people thought.

Walton had his opinion on diets and fasting - and didn't care what people thought.

Walton had his opinion on conditioning/rehab - and he didn't care what people thought.

Give me a f------ break. None of that--and I mean NONE of it--compares with the antics of Wallace and Wells and Rider, et al. Walton may have been a bit eccentric, or had some peculiar ideas, but he didn't cause even a fraction of the trouble that the Jail Blazers did.

Do you recall the shitstorm over Sheed tossing a towel at Sabonis, or a basketball at Boom-Boom? During their camp at WU, I watched the Blazers exercising in the WU pool. I watched Walton sneak up behind Lucas, grab him, and throw him into the shallow end of the pool with a pro-wrestling style suplex.

You simply cannot be serious with this shit. The incident you describe sounds like horseplay between two friends--Walton and Lucas were extremely close. But even if it was uncalled for, it wasn't on national TV, and it wasn't done to embarrass Lucas in front of the entire team.

You better find something better, because this crap is extremely WEAK.

 

[Rodolfo]

Walton on Sports Sunday right now.

 

[jlprk]

Walton needed no surgery in college because he warmed up his leg before each game, and because Wooden nursed his minutes after obtaining a great substitute, Swen Nater. This could have been duplicated here, but the Blazers traded Moses Malone for only one 1st round pick. The team doctors (who were either incompetent or working for the FBI--that was the suspicion at the time) kept causing surgery after surgery for the political Walton. So he asked to be traded, hoping for a new set of team doctors.

He did nothing wrong. The national media painted him as weird as soon as he joined the NBA. Oh--and he is the best center in the history of basketball. I'd call Jabbar the greatest (because of longevity), but Walton the best (he was better than Jabbar or Chamberlain, when you combine offense and defense). When Walton coaches you, you are hearing it directly from John Wooden.

Red Auerbach saw Walton's moves and had Bill Fitch teach the same flailing arm fakes to Kevin McHale. Then Auerbach traded to get Walton. Old hobbled Walton was still at least as good statistically that regular season as his younger teammate Robert Parish, who was one of the best 3 centers in the game at that time. By the time of the playoffs, the limping Walton was clearly better than starter Parish, and was the reason they won the Finals against Akeem Olajuwon and Ralph Sampson.

The Blazers need Walton. Walton doesn't need them. If we could get him as an assistant coach, it would be our luckiest day of the decade, including our lottery draw of Oden.

 

[jlprk]

Some of you guys are obviously politically motivated in your opposition to Walton.

 

[Shooter]

The Blazers team doctors were working for the FBI???

Never heard that one before.

 

[STOMP]

Give me a f------ break. None of that--and I mean NONE of it--compares with the antics of Wallace and Wells and Rider, et al. Walton may have been a bit eccentric, or had some peculiar ideas, but he didn't cause even a fraction of the trouble that the Jail Blazers did.

right... being constantly stoned/high on coke LSD and (of course) pot is exactly what every team wants from their best player. Not working out at all in offseasons and instead following the Grateful Dead, thats the example you want the rest of the guys to follow. And when he was publicly lambasting and/or suing half the organization, that wasn't the least bit of a distraction. Spot on.

STOMP

 

[oldmangrouch]

Give me a f------ break. None of that--and I mean NONE of it--compares with the antics of Wallace and Wells and Rider, et al. Walton may have been a bit eccentric, or had some peculiar ideas, but he didn't cause even a fraction of the trouble that the Jail Blazers did.


You simply cannot be serious with this shit. The incident you describe sounds like horseplay between two friends--Walton and Lucas were extremely close. But even if it was uncalled for, it wasn't on national TV, and it wasn't done to embarrass Lucas in front of the entire team.

You better find something better, because this crap is extremely WEAK.

What's weak is your tired bigot act. White players fuck up, and are just as accountable for their actions as black players.

Walton's eccentricities almost certainly contributed to his injury problems - unless you believe the paranoid BS about DRs deliberately messing him up at the behest of the FBI/CIA. Walton never took responsibility for his own problems - and that is the crux of the problem. What part of that don't you get?

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

Did Rush Limbaugh suddenly start posting under some of these screen names?

Someone is a bigot because they don't think smoking weed and going to Dead shows is as bad as dog fighting and rape?? As an aside I never cared that the JailBlazers were smoking weed, it was the stupidity aspect that got me...like smoking in a Hummer in the middle of the night / going through airport security with your weed wrapped in tin foil.

Unfounded accusations that his "lifestyle" contributed to his injuries... Where in medical literature does it suggest pot and acid weaken bones & ligaments?

Claiming he was "constantly stoned"? Provide a link or evidence of this. Just because he did it at home doesn't mean he was bringing it to work - who knows? Although, honestly, at that time I think a LARGE percentage of the NBA was doing it.

Sheed chucking a towel in Sabos face in a show of total disrespect = some goofing around in the pool by 2 friends??

**there is some seriously bad logic going on trying to justify some bitter feelings about a kid that played here 30 years ago...folks need to take a deep breath and learn to move on...The Blazers won a championship thanks to the guy, how about saying "Thank You for the good times" and moving on...

 

[STOMP]

Sheed chucking a towel in Sabos face in a show of total disrespect = some goofing around in the pool by 2 friends??

does bad mouthing and suing management = total respect in your world?

If I was to compare OMG's Walton pool story to a "Jailblazer" era story, I'd go with the Sheed longball toss into Boom Boom's boom booms... just guys horsing around.

there is some seriously bad logic going on

ha! pot meet kettle. You're being pretty selective in what you're addressing. The internet wasn't around in his playing days and almost all of what was written back then wasn't archived to be linked today. I do recall Bill speaking out publicly on his believed benefits of pot. I've seen him wildeyed at Dead shows puffing on long skinny cigarettes. As further anecdotal evidence, I've a buddy who is close friends with his son Nate from playing together at Princeton and have little reason not to believe what I've heard. Many rumors swirled about his use of coke and acid during his Blazer playing days... I've heard the same stuff from enough independent sources to believe it likely to be true... especially given the times.

I own only one piece of Blazer memoriabilia... a '77 Adidas Walton warmup top. Bill is probably my favorite Blazer ever as his skills/game were a thing of beauty, but I can also acknowledge his character flaws. I don't hold grudges against him, but I do notice how some selectively overlook his missteps while screaming to the rafters about other players doing similar stuff. I can only imagine what it would have been like if innuendo gossip mongers like Quick & Canzano were around back then.

STOMP

 

[crandc]

May I put in my $.02?

I listened to the podcast and I read the thread.

First, Walton's views on pot or anything else are just that, his opinion. Like him or dislike him for that, it's his opinion, he has a right to it, and his opinions did not impact his play or injuries.

Second, back in the 1970s there was not the wall to wall 24/7 coverage we now get. Shooter knows Walton never missed a practice or a team flight? How does he know? It would have been strictly internal then; now it's a header on ESPN.

We need to remember Walton was a man of his time. Back in the 1970s most pro athletes figured they were on vacation once they played their last game of the season. Partly it was economics, they did not make the money they do now and many had jobs. But it was mainly the mindset. Not like now where it is expected a player, especially an elite player, will spend his/her off season lifting weights, working with coaches, scrimmaging with teammates, etc. So it's unfair IMO to blame Walton for not working on basketball in the off season at a time when few players did.

There is also not the slightest evidence that either pot or a vegetarian diet contributed to his injuries.

Greatest Blazer ever is one of those eternal debates that will never be settled, like best album ever, best movie ever, best chocolate cake ever. Not that this ever stopped anyone from debating these issues!

I have to say I find Shooter's comments disturbing. Not in and of themselves, but in context. Because I am absolutely convinced that had Shooter been following the team back then with the coverage we get now, he'd have been denouncing Walton as a pony-tailed, pot-smoking, commune-living, tree-hugging, anti-American communist hippie who probably supported gay rights. That he is so quick to defend Walton now gives me the uncomfortable feeling that Walton's complexion has a great deal to do with it. Witness Shooter lumping Sheed (whose worst legal offense was pot-smoking, something Walton sure did, with players who have committed acts of criminal violence. I note the reference to

spoiled, egotistical, jail-tattooed brats

. Is there a premier athlete who is NOT egotistical? Maybe one or two, but it is a characteristic of elite athletes, opera singers, surgeons and chefs. And they are sure spoiled, often by the time they are in high school someone is taking care of their every need. So what is the problem? the tattoos? Or just that those colored boys are not grateful enough?

Sure, Walton made mistakes and screw ups. If Walton truly regrets what he said and did in the past, and wants to make amends, more power to him. Haven't we all had to call up some customer "service" department after some business screwed us and after 45 minutes on hold got a stock fake "we're sorry you have been inconvenienced" apology? It always makes me want to wring someone's neck. And haven't we all heard someone in public life do/say something totally offensive and instead of saying "I'm sorry I said something stupid" say "I'm sorry if anyone was offended" - because you know, it's really the fault of the listener. A genuine apology is very rare. I heard a genuine apology on the podcast.

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

does bad mouthing and suing management = total respect in your world?

If I was to compare OMG's Walton pool story to a "Jailblazer" era story, I'd go with the Sheed longball toss into Boom Boom's boom booms... just guys horsing around.

It depends. In his case I think he honestly believes that the medical staff did not have his best interests at heart. Generally, suing an employer is a bad idea because it stigmatizes the employee as a "troublemaker". Seems like that was borne out in his case. A legal disagreement is a lot different in my eyes than chucking a basketball at someone's basketballs...

ha! pot meet kettle. You're being pretty selective in what you're addressing. The internet wasn't around in his playing days and almost all of what was written back then wasn't archived to be linked today. I do recall Bill speaking out publicly on his believed benefits of pot. I've seen him wildeyed at Dead shows puffing on long skinny cigarettes. As further anecdotal evidence, I've a buddy who is close friends with his son Nate from playing together at Princeton and have little reason not to believe what I've heard. Many rumors swirled about his use of coke and acid during his Blazer playing days... I've heard the same stuff from enough independent sources to believe it likely to be true... especially given the times.

I own only one piece of Blazer memoriabilia... a '77 Adidas Walton warmup top. Bill is probably my favorite Blazer ever as his skills/game were a thing of beauty, but I can also acknowledge his character flaws. I don't hold grudges against him, but I do notice how some selectively overlook his missteps while screaming to the rafters about other players doing similar stuff. I can only imagine what it would have been like if innuendo gossip mongers like Quick & Canzano were around back then.

STOMP

Ha! The Pot is calling the kettle green on this one! - I never denied that he almost surely was doing all sorts of stuff in those days...I merely challenged the assumption that he was "constantly stoned" while playing. Also, as far as "screaming to the rafters" I'm certainly not lumped in that group...if you look at my reply I mention that I didn't care about the JailBlazers toking...it was the attendant stupidity that went with it that bugged me...

Your point about the 24/7 prying news coverage is accurate, though. I'm sure there were tons of things that would have been dug up in the past. Also, I don't live in a glass house...I've screwed up plenty myself. In fact, my main point in originally posting wasn't to attack any players, rather to defend Walton and to suggest that despite his many failings, that I thought he probably deserved a little forgiveness. Some of the vitriol being thrown his way is out of line... He was in his 20's and it's obviously a regret he has carried a long time...

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

Sheed (whose worst legal offense was pot-smoking

Sheed's problems had a lot to do with his attitude..."Both teams played hard." But I agree they aren't even close to some of the crap others on the team did... He just kind of became the easy poster child for the "JailBlazers" because his profile was higher than some of the other worse players.

A genuine apology is very rare. I heard a genuine apology on the podcast.

Agreed.

 

[STOMP]

It depends. In his case I think he honestly believes that the medical staff did not have his best interests at heart. Generally, suing an employer is a bad idea because it stigmatizes the employee as a "troublemaker". Seems like that was borne out in his case. A legal disagreement is a lot different in my eyes than chucking a basketball at someone's basketballs...

did I say it was his lawsuits combined with public claims of incompetence and forcing him to do things against his will created an ugly public image mess for the club to deal with... this really can't be disputed.

Throwing a full court lob up into the rafters then calling out a temmate's name who turns around with a what? to have the ball bounce in front of him and knock him where it counts is horsing around. As described, no way could Wallace have really known the ball would smack him there, he probably was just hoping to startle him. It may not be the smartest goofing around activity, but Walton suplexing Lucas in the shallow end of a pool is even dumber as serious injury and even longtime disability is a real possibility.

Ha! The Pot is calling the kettle green on this one! - I never denied that he almost surely was doing all sorts of stuff in those days...I merely challenged the assumption that he was "constantly stoned" while playing.

I didn't mean that he was toking up at halftime, but certainly he was a regular user while playing... which has been enough for some fans (not necessarily you) to label other players with a stoner stigma.

Also, as far as "screaming to the rafters" I'm certainly not lumped in that group...if you look at my reply I mention that I didn't care about the JailBlazers toking...it was the attendant stupidity that went with it that bugged me...

it wasn't you that I was referring to...

STOMP

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

I didn't mean that he was toking up at halftime, but certainly he was a regular user while playing... which has been enough for some fans (not necessarily you) to label other players with a stoner stigma.

Oh, I don't mind calling him a stoner...he probably was. I just don't think that aspect of his personal life had any discernible negative impact on his playing. Other people feel differently.

 

[jlprk]

Walton's current reputation for constantly being on drugs is new. Back then, he was the most psyched-up player in the league, known for his great intensity. If like all other college students and recent students, he used some drugs with his informer friends in the summer, he wasn't doing it much during the season, because he out-played everyone during the season. If you didn't live through the leftism of the 70s, you will see his behavior as individual idiosyncrasy, instead of part of a political movement.

Sued the team? You ever heard of the Bird rule? Came from a lawsuit against the league. Walton slowly came to agree with the many who felt he had lost his career due to incompetent team doctors. A sudden rash of Blazer injuries occurred under that set of team doctors, and continued after his departure until they were replaced. If he hadn't gotten out in time, he wouldn't have barely made it into the few games he did with the Clippers and Celtics. Walton missed 3 complete 82-game seasons (1978-79, 1980-81, and 1981-82, not to mention the majorities of several more seasons) due to what the Blazer doctors had done to him. Walton is a hero.

 

[jlprk]

right... being constantly stoned/high on coke LSD and (of course) pot is exactly what every team wants from their best player. Not working out at all in offseasons and instead following the Grateful Dead, thats the example you want the rest of the guys to follow.

STOMP

You're making up the constantly stoned stuff. And no one worked out in the summer then.

Walton's eccentricities almost certainly contributed to his injury problems - unless you believe the paranoid BS about DRs deliberately messing him up at the behest of the FBI/CIA. Walton never took responsibility for his own problems - and that is the crux of the problem. What part of that don't you get?

The guy lived with socialist groups and his best friend was a friend of the people who kidnapped Patty Hearst. The FBI had Walton and his friends under surveillance all the time. What is the personal responsibility that he failed to accept? That he himself somehow caused his own injuries? From being a vegetarian? That's a new one. Many players have subsequently had stranger diets, especially with today's suplements, and not been injured. Wasn't Jordan a vegetarian for a while?

Where in medical literature does it suggest pot and acid weaken bones & ligaments?...Claiming he was "constantly stoned"?...Sheed chucking a towel in Sabos face in a show of total disrespect = some goofing around in the pool by 2 friends??**there is some seriously bad logic going on trying to justify some bitter feelings about a kid that played here 30 years ago.

Agree.

I do recall Bill speaking out publicly on his believed benefits of pot. I've seen him wildeyed at Dead shows puffing on long skinny cigarettes. As further anecdotal evidence, I've a buddy who is close friends with his son Nate from playing together at Princeton and have little reason not to believe what I've heard. Many rumors swirled about his use of coke and acid during his Blazer playing days... I've heard the same stuff from enough independent sources to believe it likely to be true... especially given the times...

I can only imagine what it would have been like if innuendo gossip mongers like Quick & Canzano were around back then.

STOMP

In other words, you have no evidence that he used drugs during the season. He did express his political views that it should be legalized. (Most college students and young people agreed and still do.) And I don't believe that you were at a Dead concert with him. As for the lack of a Quick or Canzano back then, the media around the country had opposition to Walton on the sports pages, though most coverage was neutral.

his lawsuits combined with public claims of incompetence and forcing him to do things against his will created an ugly public image mess for the club to deal with... this really can't be disputed.STOMP

I'm disputing it. From a distance, there was no image mess at all for the team. It was Walton that part of the media was after.