Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free agent."

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Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

Don't mind the "sky is falling" chain gang. They forgot that Pippen and Barkley asked to be traded to Portland when they were relevant.

Huge difference than signing as a FA, also was 10-20 years ago. Players, the game and money has changed
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

Huge difference than signing as a FA, also was 10-20 years ago. Players, the game and money has changed

Not true, our team was under the cap when we made the WCF in 1998-99. After we contended; players wanted to come to us. Funny how that works.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

It will just take some luck and the right combination of players.

For example if Portland would have selected Durant instead of Oden we would have had the Big Two of the needed big three. PA would have been willing to go over the cap and sign a big time FA. Portland would have made a huge push to get Howard. But now what is the point? We are not a big time FA away from being a champion. I trust Olshey and if we get to the point where we are one away from possible championship glory then I see PA and Olshey making the move.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

You are completely missing the reply. The concept was having the ability to lose games for an opportunity to get a high pick. Did we purposely lose games to obtain high picks? Yes... We got #2 and #6. We aren't talking about players. We are talking about high picks. Pay attention! LMAO!

I still fail to see what "high picks" have to do with attracting marquee free agents. Yes, if Portland lucked into a core three-four players through high draft picks that ended up being supermen and propelling the team into the late rounds of the playoffs, bigger ticket FAs would be tempted to come here, as Charles Barkley and Scottie Pippen were. But that's what it would be: luck. It would have nothing to do with cap space, or the fact that Portland is an attractive place to play professional basketball. It's not. It rains. It's cold. The fans are demanding and the local media is intrusive. If the Blazers were successful, as they have been occasionally, that changes the scenario somewhat. Players who want to play deep into May and June might look over the negatives to play in Rip City. But as the Blazers stand now, and usually stand? Fuck no. Dwight Howard would never consider playing here. LeBron James would never consider playing here. Kevin Durant would never consider playing here. Go down the list of the top 20 players in the NBA, and given the choice between Portland and any other "have" team in the league, given the same amount of money offered, the "have" team would be chosen. End of story. That's the truth.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

You don't have to have the worst record...and they don't necessarily have to have the #1 pick either....there are at least 4-5 premium players that people are talking about....

Obviously Wiggins is the prize...but there are some other potential players like Jabari Parker, Julius Randle, Marcus Smart, Andrew Harrison...
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

I still fail to see what "high picks" have to do with attracting marquee free agents. Yes, if Portland lucked into a core three-four players through high draft picks that ended up being supermen and propelling the team into the late rounds of the playoffs, bigger ticket FAs would be tempted to come here, as Charles Barkley and Scottie Pippen were. But that's what it would be: luck. It would have nothing to do with cap space, or the fact that Portland is an attractive place to play professional basketball. It's not. It rains. It's cold. The fans are demanding and the local media is intrusive. If the Blazers were successful, as they have been occasionally, that changes the scenario somewhat. Players who want to play deep into May and June might look over the negatives to play in Rip City. But as the Blazers stand now, and usually stand? Fuck no. Dwight Howard would never consider playing here. LeBron James would never consider playing here. Kevin Durant would never consider playing here. Go down the list of the top 20 players in the NBA, and given the choice between Portland and any other "have" team in the league, given the same amount of money offered, the "have" team would be chosen. End of story. That's the truth.

Do you think a Marquee Free Agent wouldn't mind playing with Durant and Westbrook in OKC?
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

You don't have to have the worst record...and they don't necessarily have to have the #1 pick either....there are at least 4-5 premium players that people are talking about....

Obviously Wiggins is the prize...but there are some other potential players like Jabari Parker, Julius Randle, Marcus Smart, Andrew Harrison...

What I'm trying to tell you is that we will get return for Aldridge. WE won't just trade him for a draft pick and cap relief. Any talent that comes back will still be talent. AND I believe Lillard, Stotts, Matthews and even Batum won't want to lose; so we will be middle of the pack. WE may even still lose our draft pick as well.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

It will just take some luck and the right combination of players.

For example if Portland would have selected Durant instead of Oden we would have had the Big Two of the needed big three. PA would have been willing to go over the cap and sign a big time FA. Portland would have made a huge push to get Howard. But now what is the point? We are not a big time FA away from being a champion. I trust Olshey and if we get to the point where we are one away from possible championship glory then I see PA and Olshey making the move.

Well said (repp'd). If we picked Durant instead of Oden; I have no doubt that Howard would like to be traded to Portland.

Our problem was we had bad management. That management couldn't see the forest through the trees. In just one true off-season, Olshey really put us in a good position. I have faith OLshey will get the right players and make the right choice if he needs to.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

Do you think a Marquee Free Agent wouldn't mind playing with Durant and Westbrook in OKC?

If the owners of OKC weren't so financially fucked the Thunder could have had a Big 3. Instead they traded Harden away because they couldn't handle the penalties for going over the cap. Paul Allen would not have those problems.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

AND that player played how many games throughout his career? How about us tanking and getting oden? How did that pan out?

We didn't tank for Oden. If we had, we would've thrown the Black Saturday game against Seattle, ended up with their lotto numbers instead of ours, and drafted Durant. Instead, we tried to win every game. And just sucked at it, for most of the year.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

How do you supposed we will be in the running for the 2014 lotto? Our team doesn't suck enough, even if we trade away Aldridge.

If we traded Aldridge this would definitely be a lotto team.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

We didn't tank for Oden. If we had, we would've thrown the Black Saturday game against Seattle, ended up with their lotto numbers instead of ours, and drafted Durant. Instead, we tried to win every game. And just sucked at it, for most of the year.

What if Seattle picked Durant anyway? Still be fucked yes?
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

You are completely missing the reply. The concept was having the ability to lose games for an opportunity to get a high pick. Did we purposely lose games to obtain high picks? Yes... We got #2 and #6. We aren't talking about players. We are talking about high picks. Pay attention! LMAO!

#6 was New Jersey's pick. We had nothing to do with that, tanking or non-tanking. Our pick was #11--Leonard.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

If we traded Aldridge this would definitely be a lotto team.

So you think of we got lee and Barnes; we would be a lotto team?
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

#6 was New Jersey's pick. We had nothing to do with that, tanking or non-tanking. Our pick was #11--Leonard.

Lotto picks are still lotto picks Brian. Okc got #6 that year from a trade too? Does that mean it doesn't apply?

You and most of the "rebuild with lotto picks" group talk about I raining talent through the draft. Obviously you don't have to tank to do that.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

So you think of we got lee and Barnes; we would be a lotto team?

That particular trade is mostly a push, but I doubt we'd see that kind of move. In all likelihood Olshey would want an expiring contract and a young player along with a pick.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

That particular trade is mostly a push, but I doubt we'd see that kind of move. In all likelihood Olshey would want an expiring contract and and a young player along with a pick.

Example? I don't see any team that can give us that and have the cap space or expiring to absorb the contract.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

Lotto picks are still lotto picks Brian. Okc got #6 that year from a trade too? Does that mean it doesn't apply?

You and most of the "rebuild with lotto picks" group talk about I raining talent through the draft. Obviously you don't have to tank to do that.

There comes a point where you either go with the L-Train or you get off. That time is coming very soon.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

There comes a point where you either go with the L-Train or you get off. That time is coming very soon.

I think it's unfair to think in that way when the team that was built around Aldridge couldn't stay healthy. Now that there is a good new core that we can count on, maybe its better to make that decision after we see the team play

EDIT: And why not trade Batum? It seems he has been more inconsistent. If this team could manage to trade Batum, Matthews and Leonard for Horford; that would definitely move the needle.
 
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Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

I think it's unfair to think in that way when the team that was built around Aldridge couldn't stay healthy. Now that there is a good new core that we can count on, maybe its better to make that decision after we see the team play

An enormous contract is looming near for the L-Train. You gotta keep flexibility within the cap as you try to improve every year. Besides, are you paying him to be a #1 or #2 (or yikes #3)?

There's also the defense factor. We were pretty bad last season. Look for changes if that happens again this upcoming season.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

An enormous contract is looming near for the L-Train. You gotta keep flexibility within the cap as you try to improve every year. Besides, are you paying him to be a #1 or #2 (or yikes #3)?

There's also the defense factor. We were pretty bad last season. Look for changes if that happens again this upcoming season.

He is a definite #2 option. Maybe we should be having that conversation about Batum being a 12 mil player and a weak #3 option. AT least Aldridge is consistent.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

An enormous contract is looming near for the L-Train. You gotta keep flexibility within the cap as you try to improve every year. Besides, are you paying him to be a #1 or #2 (or yikes #3)?

There's also the defense factor. We were pretty bad last season. Look for changes if that happens again this upcoming season.

Which would probably mean the coaching staff.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

He is a definite #2 option. Maybe we should be having that conversation about Batum being a 12 mil player and a weak #3 option. AT least Aldridge is consistent.

Batum's contract could adversely affect our cap flexibility as well.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

Which would probably mean the coaching staff.

That's one way to change things. It's not the only option.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

That's one way to change things. It's not the only option.

True, but with the addition of Lopez and a serviceable bench the coaching staff would take a lot of heat if the Blazers defense doesn't step it up this season.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

True, but with the addition of Lopez and a serviceable bench the coaching staff would take a lot of heat if the Blazers defense doesn't step it up this season.

Lopez is part of the solution. The starting core constitutes most of the minutes played. The bench occasionally helps. We'll see how much the interior defense actually improved. We basically took out JJ and replaced him with Lopez. The starting unit is pretty much the same. The bench IMO is improved offensively. Defensively is a different matter entirely.

Leonard looked lost in his defensive rotations and assignments. And I'm not quite sure what we should expect from TRob. Defensively our team is an enigma at this point. Couldn't get much worse than last season, right? LOL
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

True, but with the addition of Lopez and a serviceable bench the coaching staff would take a lot of heat if the Blazers defense doesn't step it up this season.

This is a very good point. I hope the coaching staff realizes that the leeway they got last year likely no longer exists. The FO--like the fans--expects a jump this year.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

Lopez is part of the solution. The starting core constitutes most of the minutes played. The bench occasionally helps. We'll see how much the interior defense actually improved. We basically took out JJ and replaced him with Lopez. The starting unit is pretty much the same. The bench IMO is improved offensively. Defensively is a different matter entirely.

Leonard looked lost in his defensive rotations and assignments. And I'm not quite sure what we should expect from TRob. Defensively our team is an enigma at this point. Couldn't get much worse than last season, right? LOL

Yep... agree completely.
 
I disagree. We see marquee players pick small market teams (big contract) often. I don't think the Blazers will get that superstar FA player who everyone is offering a max contract to, but watching just this summer with Reke going to NO, Iggy to GS, Smith to Detroit, Jefferson to Charlotte and so on. Except for Dwight, seems like most FA went to the highest bidder.

The greater Bay Area has roughly double the population of the entire state of Oregon... neither the Bay Area or Detroit are small markets. Also, Iguadala reportedly turned down more $ from Denver because he felt the Warriors would give him a better chance to compete for a title.

STOMP
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

I don't know if you're doing it on purpose or not, but you're not only misrepresenting the point of most of the people who want to trade LMA now, but also in the need for a small market team to build through the draft.

First, this year's not a good year to pick to say we can’t get marquee FA’s, whether that’s true or not. As shown multiple times, we had "only" 11.9M in cap space. That wasn't enough for a "marquee-" or even "semi-marquee-level" player like Paul (21.4M/yr) Howard (20M/yr), Smith (14M/yr), Jefferson (13.7M/yr), West (12M/yr), Iguodala (12M/yr), Bynum (12M/yr). Pekovic would’ve been matched at any price we would’ve been able to afford. Splitter was matched at about the max we were going to go (9M/yr).

We had enough for either Evans (11M/yr), Millsap (9M/yr) or Mayo (8M/yr) and a spare part left over. I don’t consider them “marquee”. We could’ve afforded JJ Redick (6.2M/yr), but it seems he wanted to play in LA with CP3 and Lob City. You want Kevin Martin (4yr/32M)? Jack, Calderon or JR Smith at 4/25M+?

Second, someone (Jayne?) stated that our offseason was like picking up a couch of the sidewalk. That’s kind of dumb. It was more like buying a drug-runner’s Lamborghini at a police auction, or Iverson’s Bentley at a bankruptcy auction. The rules stated that a team (in this case, HOU) wanted to do something the law wouldn’t allow, and so they had to have assets re-po’d (or sold at fire-sale prices—in this case, Robinson) to be able to get what they wanted (in this case, Howard). Same for NOP and Lopez. They wanted Tyreke, and the price for that was fire-saling their starting center. Doesn’t mean that they aren’t still useful assets, it means that because of extenuating circumstances you didn’t have to pay full price for them. Could we have traded cap space for the #5 pick 12 months ago? Or even 4 months ago (when SAC gave up Robinson)?

Third, you don’t have to tank to get good draft picks. But you do have to get them. Trading 30 y/o All-Star Gerald Wallace for the #6 pick was not the catalyst for our 2011 slide, it was a move that gathered assets after seeing that he wasn’t going to be here long-term. Yes, the team was hurt in the short term because Mehmet Okur and Shawne Williams were not as good as Crash was, but the team got a pretty good value (in Lillard) going forward. CLE doesn’t have Kyrie Irving because they sucked—they have Kyrie Irving because they traded their 28 y/o All-Star PG (Mo Williams) for LAC’s lotto pick—which won the lotto. They were slightly worse short-term because Baron Davis’ broken-down body wasn’t as good as Williams. But they got around 8+ years of Kyrie Irving instead. OKC used cap space to take on Kurt Thomas (and got two 1sts—Serge Ibaka included—for their trouble), and then traded him for another future first. Didn’t matter how good or bad they were—the picks were other teams’ assets that they were able to leverage. By trading 27 y/o All-Star Chris Paul two years before they knew he was going to not re-sign with his team, NOH got a not-quite-as-good player (Gordon), some young pieces and a lotto pick. Didn’t matter how much they sucked, they were getting a pick based on how bad LAC was (and it ended up at #10). Deron forcing his way out of Utah got Favors, a lotto pick (that ended up at #3), a mid-round pick (Dieng) and a point guard that actually played better than Deron did for the rest of that year. Didn’t matter how bad they tanked or not—they were in the running all this year for a playoff spot. I can go on, but there’s more.

Going back to the point of the article, we can’t Spend Paul Allen’s Money to circumvent a cap anymore. It doesn’t matter if we actually wanted Hibbert so bad we would’ve paid 40M a year to get him, we were limited by the CBA and IND could match whatever we wanted (BTW, Hibbert was a pretty marquee FA that would’ve signed here, so there’s one). Did anyone ever think that POR was in the running for one of the “marquee” FA’s this year (CP3 or Howard), even if we did have oodles of cap space? When we had Roy, Oden and Aldridge, and 11M in space, which marquee FA’s lined up to sign here? Not Hedo. Millsap got matched. We went with Andre Miller. Instead of having RLEC traded for Vince Carter and 2 firsts at the previous deadline.

What we (as a non-"glamour" city) need is to continually get assets to keep building up a team. In Portland, the FA method for getting marquee players has proven to be one that is lightning-in-a-bottle at best, and non-existent at worst. Getting future draft picks is a way to maintain the flexibility and ability to get good players on inexpensive contracts, maintaining cap flexibility to go after future assets like we did this year (or Presti did with Kurt Thomas or Utah did with Jefferson and Biedrins) and setting yourself up if a Pippen/Howard/Deron/Melo trade comes along. Letting an All-Star-caliber player walk for nothing is beyond short-sighted, and has been shown to be that throughout recent NBA history.
 
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