Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free agent."

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Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

I don't know if you're doing it on purpose or not, but you're not only misrepresenting the point of most of the people who want to trade LMA now, but also in the need for a small market team to build through the draft.

First, this year's not a good year to pick to say we can’t get marquee FA’s, whether that’s true or not. As shown multiple times, we had "only" 11.9M in cap space. That wasn't enough for a "marquee-" or even "semi-marquee-level" player like Paul (21.4M/yr) Howard (20M/yr), Smith (14M/yr), Jefferson (13.7M/yr), West (12M/yr), Iguodala (12M/yr), Bynum (12M/yr). Pekovic would’ve been matched at any price we would’ve been able to afford. Splitter was matched at about the max we were going to go (9M/yr).

We had enough for either Evans (11M/yr), Millsap (9M/yr) or Mayo (8M/yr) and a spare part left over. I don’t consider them “marquee”. We could’ve afforded JJ Redick (6.2M/yr), but it seems he wanted to play in LA with CP3 and Lob City. You want Kevin Martin (4yr/32M)? Jack, Calderon or JR Smith at 4/25M+?

Second, someone (Jayne?) stated that our offseason was like picking up a couch of the sidewalk. That’s stupid. It was more like buying a drug-runner’s Lamborghini at a police auction, or Iverson’s Bentley at a bankruptcy auction. The rules stated that a team (in this case, HOU) wanted to do something the law wouldn’t allow, and so they had to have assets re-po’d (or sold at fire-sale prices—in this case, Robinson) to be able to get what they wanted (in this case, Howard). Same for NOP and Lopez. They wanted Tyreke, and the price for that was fire-saling their starting center. Doesn’t mean that they aren’t still useful assets, it means that because of extenuating circumstances you didn’t have to pay full price for them. Could we have traded cap space for the #5 pick 12 months ago? Or even 4 months ago (when SAC gave up Robinson)?

Third, you don’t have to tank to get good draft picks. But you do have to get them. Trading 30 y/o All-Star Gerald Wallace for the #6 pick was not the catalyst for our 2011 slide, it was a move that gathered assets after seeing that he wasn’t going to be here long-term. Yes, the team was hurt in the short term because Mehmet Okur and Shawne Williams were not as good as Crash was, but the team got a pretty good value (in Lillard) going forward. CLE doesn’t have Kyrie Irving because they sucked—they have Kyrie Irving because they traded their 28 y/o All-Star PG (Mo Williams) for LAC’s lotto pick—which won the lotto. They were slightly worse short-term because Baron Davis’ broken-down body wasn’t as good as Williams. But they got around 8+ years of Kyrie Irving instead. OKC used cap space to take on Kurt Thomas (and got two 1sts—Serge Ibaka included—for their trouble), and then traded him for another future first. Didn’t matter how good or bad they were—the picks were other teams’ assets that they were able to leverage. By trading 27 y/o All-Star Chris Paul two years before they knew he was going to not re-sign with his team, NOH got a not-quite-as-good player (Gordon), some young pieces and a lotto pick. Didn’t matter how much they sucked, they were getting a pick based on how bad LAC was (and it ended up at #10). Deron forcing his way out of Utah got Favors, a lotto pick (that ended up at #3), a mid-round pick (Dieng) and a point guard that actually played better than Deron did for the rest of that year. Didn’t matter how bad they tanked or not—they were in the running all this year for a playoff spot. I can go on, but there’s more.

Going back to the point of the article, we can’t Spend Paul Allen’s Money to circumvent a cap anymore. It doesn’t matter if we actually wanted Hibbert so bad we would’ve paid 40M a year to get him, we were limited by the CBA and IND could match whatever we wanted (BTW, Hibbert was a pretty marquee FA that would’ve signed here, so there’s one). Did anyone ever think that POR was in the running for one of the “marquee” FA’s this year (CP3 or Howard), even if we did have oodles of cap space? When we had Roy, Oden and Aldridge, and 11M in space, which marquee FA’s lined up to sign here? Not Hedo. Millsap got matched. We went with Andre Miller. Instead of having RLEC traded for Vince Carter and 2 firsts at the previous deadline.

What we (as a non-"glamour" city) need is to continually get assets to keep building up a team. In Portland, the FA method for getting marquee players has proven to be one that is lightning-in-a-bottle at best, and non-existent at worst. Getting future draft picks is a way to maintain the flexibility and ability to get good players on inexpensive contracts, maintaining cap flexibility to go after future assets like we did this year (or Presti did with Kurt Thomas or Utah did with Jefferson and Biedrins) and setting yourself up if a Pippen/Howard/Deron/Melo trade comes along. Letting an All-Star-caliber player walk for nothing is beyond short-sighted, and has been shown to be that throughout recent NBA history.

This is a great post! Repp'd
 
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Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

Hakeem Olajuwon was once rumored to want to come to Portland to play with Clyde. Unfortunately, a couple years later, the course reversed and Drexler went to Houston instead.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

Dude, we did get Hedo to come here.

Oh, wait.....

In this case, disaster averted.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

That's the problem though. Will we be bad enough to have a high draft pick? I just don't see it.
It doesn't seem like it to me either. Hence, the refrain that we are in Mediocreville. If we don't, through some miracle, get a high lotto pick next year, we have to acquire fire-sale assets and try to trade up.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

someone please explain to me which "big time" free agent you would consider that we missed out on this year? everyone knew where Dwight and CP3 were going. so who did we "miss out on?" we weren't going after igoudala or monta ellis or any of them. stupid article
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

Thank God (not GOD) someone gets it.

The Jayne article pointed out that we hadn't gotten out of the first round and that we hadn't attracted a "Marquee" FA in 13 years, but he somehow couldn't figure out that these concepts were related.

I don't know if you're doing it on purpose or not, but you're not only misrepresenting the point of most of the people who want to trade LMA now, but also in the need for a small market team to build through the draft.

First, this year's not a good year to pick to say we can’t get marquee FA’s, whether that’s true or not. As shown multiple times, we had "only" 11.9M in cap space. That wasn't enough for a "marquee-" or even "semi-marquee-level" player like Paul (21.4M/yr) Howard (20M/yr), Smith (14M/yr), Jefferson (13.7M/yr), West (12M/yr), Iguodala (12M/yr), Bynum (12M/yr). Pekovic would’ve been matched at any price we would’ve been able to afford. Splitter was matched at about the max we were going to go (9M/yr).

We had enough for either Evans (11M/yr), Millsap (9M/yr) or Mayo (8M/yr) and a spare part left over. I don’t consider them “marquee”. We could’ve afforded JJ Redick (6.2M/yr), but it seems he wanted to play in LA with CP3 and Lob City. You want Kevin Martin (4yr/32M)? Jack, Calderon or JR Smith at 4/25M+?

Second, someone (Jayne?) stated that our offseason was like picking up a couch of the sidewalk. That’s kind of dumb. It was more like buying a drug-runner’s Lamborghini at a police auction, or Iverson’s Bentley at a bankruptcy auction. The rules stated that a team (in this case, HOU) wanted to do something the law wouldn’t allow, and so they had to have assets re-po’d (or sold at fire-sale prices—in this case, Robinson) to be able to get what they wanted (in this case, Howard). Same for NOP and Lopez. They wanted Tyreke, and the price for that was fire-saling their starting center. Doesn’t mean that they aren’t still useful assets, it means that because of extenuating circumstances you didn’t have to pay full price for them. Could we have traded cap space for the #5 pick 12 months ago? Or even 4 months ago (when SAC gave up Robinson)?

Third, you don’t have to tank to get good draft picks. But you do have to get them. Trading 30 y/o All-Star Gerald Wallace for the #6 pick was not the catalyst for our 2011 slide, it was a move that gathered assets after seeing that he wasn’t going to be here long-term. Yes, the team was hurt in the short term because Mehmet Okur and Shawne Williams were not as good as Crash was, but the team got a pretty good value (in Lillard) going forward. CLE doesn’t have Kyrie Irving because they sucked—they have Kyrie Irving because they traded their 28 y/o All-Star PG (Mo Williams) for LAC’s lotto pick—which won the lotto. They were slightly worse short-term because Baron Davis’ broken-down body wasn’t as good as Williams. But they got around 8+ years of Kyrie Irving instead. OKC used cap space to take on Kurt Thomas (and got two 1sts—Serge Ibaka included—for their trouble), and then traded him for another future first. Didn’t matter how good or bad they were—the picks were other teams’ assets that they were able to leverage. By trading 27 y/o All-Star Chris Paul two years before they knew he was going to not re-sign with his team, NOH got a not-quite-as-good player (Gordon), some young pieces and a lotto pick. Didn’t matter how much they sucked, they were getting a pick based on how bad LAC was (and it ended up at #10). Deron forcing his way out of Utah got Favors, a lotto pick (that ended up at #3), a mid-round pick (Dieng) and a point guard that actually played better than Deron did for the rest of that year. Didn’t matter how bad they tanked or not—they were in the running all this year for a playoff spot. I can go on, but there’s more.

Going back to the point of the article, we can’t Spend Paul Allen’s Money to circumvent a cap anymore. It doesn’t matter if we actually wanted Hibbert so bad we would’ve paid 40M a year to get him, we were limited by the CBA and IND could match whatever we wanted (BTW, Hibbert was a pretty marquee FA that would’ve signed here, so there’s one). Did anyone ever think that POR was in the running for one of the “marquee” FA’s this year (CP3 or Howard), even if we did have oodles of cap space? When we had Roy, Oden and Aldridge, and 11M in space, which marquee FA’s lined up to sign here? Not Hedo. Millsap got matched. We went with Andre Miller. Instead of having RLEC traded for Vince Carter and 2 firsts at the previous deadline.

What we (as a non-"glamour" city) need is to continually get assets to keep building up a team. In Portland, the FA method for getting marquee players has proven to be one that is lightning-in-a-bottle at best, and non-existent at worst. Getting future draft picks is a way to maintain the flexibility and ability to get good players on inexpensive contracts, maintaining cap flexibility to go after future assets like we did this year (or Presti did with Kurt Thomas or Utah did with Jefferson and Biedrins) and setting yourself up if a Pippen/Howard/Deron/Melo trade comes along. Letting an All-Star-caliber player walk for nothing is beyond short-sighted, and has been shown to be that throughout recent NBA history.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

BfW hit the nail on the head. One name: Roy Hibbert

Pretty sure he's "Marquee". Just ask the Heat/Knicks
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

BfW hit the nail on the head. One name: Roy Hibbert

Pretty sure he's "Marquee". Just ask the Heat/Knicks

But, but, but he's not here "says the doomsdayers"
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

BfW hit the nail on the head. One name: Roy Hibbert

Pretty sure he's "Marquee". Just ask the Heat/Knicks

If the Pacers wouldn't have matched people would have said that was proof that we overpaid to get him.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

If the Pacers wouldn't have matched people would have said that was proof that we overpaid to get him.

I wouldn't care. We'd be dominating the league!
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

BfW hit the nail on the head. One name: Roy Hibbert

Pretty sure he's "Marquee". Just ask the Heat/Knicks

If the Pacers wouldn't have matched people would have said that was proof that we overpaid to get him.

Technically we didn't sign him. And thus the Pacers didn't have to match us.

Would have been sweet to get him though.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

I wouldn't care. We'd be dominating the league!

"But we used up all of our cap room to overpay a player nobody else wanted! :MARIS61:"

Come on Mags, you need to pay attention in how the doom and gloomers think,
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

"But we used up all of our cap room to overpay a player nobody else wanted! :MARIS61:"

Come on Mags, you need to pay attention in how the doom and gloomers think,

LMAO!!!!!!
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

All conjecture since PA has never seriously pursued a marquee player.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

Big difference is their marquee draft picks (Duncan, Parker, Ginobili) gelled and avoided serious injury.

It's easy to incorporate 2nd or 3rd tier talent when you have a healthy core of all-stars/future Hall of Famers.

And you don't think that would have been Roy/GO/LA? We had it set up perfectly, and our knees crumbled.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

How did we get all those players from 1999 - 2001?
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

The current CBA is set up to protect small market teams by letting them pay their star players more than other teams in free agency.

Yet the same people whining about never getting a quality FA want to run LMA out of town for some odd reason.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

And you don't think that would have been Roy/GO/LA? We had it set up perfectly, and our knees crumbled.

As I said earlier, luck also plays a huge factor. SAS has been lucky that their big three has mostly avoided it, the Blazers unlucky.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

As I said earlier, luck also plays a huge factor. SAS has been lucky that their big three has mostly avoided it, the Blazers unlucky.

I don't know about unlucky. More like stupidity. Drafting damaged goods with top 10 picks twice.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

The bigger question is why does anyone care what some dipshit writer for the Columbian has to say?
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

he just became the editorial director.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

I'd consider Hibbert close to that.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

Well said (repp'd). If we picked Durant instead of Oden; I have no doubt that Howard would like to be traded to Portland.

It was reported that he balked at being traded to OKC which explains why OKC didn't try to pair the two themselves when Dwight was on the way out of Orlando and they knew they had to trade Harden. Don't think PDX would have been any different.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

Portland is twice the size of OKC. The Thunder are on another level when it comes to small markets.

But I do agree -- Dwight will never play for a team above the sun-belt regardless of market size.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

I disagree. We see marquee players pick small market teams (big contract) often. I don't think the Blazers will get that superstar FA player who everyone is offering a max contract to, but watching just this summer with Reke going to NO, Iggy to GS, Smith to Detroit, Jefferson to Charlotte and so on. Except for Dwight, seems like most FA went to the highest bidder.

Those aren't marquee free agents, lol...
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

Well said (repp'd). If we picked Durant instead of Oden; I have no doubt that Howard would like to be traded to Portland.

Our problem was we had bad management. That management couldn't see the forest through the trees. In just one true off-season, Olshey really put us in a good position. I have faith OLshey will get the right players and make the right choice if he needs to.

Bad management? What major personnel moves did the Blazers get wrong?
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

If the Pacers wouldn't have matched people would have said that was proof that we overpaid to get him.

"But we used up all of our cap room to overpay a player nobody else wanted! :MARIS61:"

Come on Mags, you need to pay attention in how the doom and gloomers think,

These are the criticisms that the doom and gloomers made to get Bob Whitsitt fired. That ended our days of getting big name players.

The Jayne article pointed out that we hadn't gotten out of the first round and that we hadn't attracted a "Marquee" FA in 13 years, but he somehow couldn't figure out that these concepts were related.

Jaynes and the rest of the media complained when Whitsitt spent a lot, spending which made us average over .600 in Whitsitt's last 7 years. Now they whine about what they caused, a decade of rebuilding. They'll always find a way to be negative.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

I'm looking forward to a 1st round exit and a year wasted this season.
 
Re: Bitter Truth: "Portland will never, ever, ever be able to sign a marquee free age

These are the criticisms that the doom and gloomers made to get Bob Whitsitt fired. That ended our days of getting big name players.



Jaynes and the rest of the media complained when Whitsitt spent a lot, spending which made us average over .600 in Whitsitt's last 7 years. Now they whine about what they caused, a decade of rebuilding. They'll always find a way to be negative.

Have you ever met or talked to Bob Whitsett? He used to have a website up. He'd probably enjoying hearing that you haven't forgot him. If you could ever get him to do a Q & A I'd go.
 

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