OT Black Man In Minnesota Dies After Cop Kneels On His Neck/ Portland Riots

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e_blazer said:
Nonsense. I have said before that I think the police methods sucked. I would fire every one of them. That said, unless there are some facts that have been inaccurately reported by the AG, the police had a legal search warrant. They had the right to enter the apartment. The boyfriend shooting his gun at them gives police legal right to return fire.
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Since you've been spending time covering for the cops in this case, I'm curious what you think they did wrong. Based on your reasoning, they followed the letter of the law and all their actions were justified. Why fire them then?
 
hoojacks said:
Since you've been spending time covering for the cops in this case, I'm curious what you think they did wrong. Based on your reasoning, they followed the letter of the law and all their actions were justified. Why fire them then?
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I’m not covering for anyone. I’m simply stating that the law, as best I understand it, does not support a conclusion that the police committed a crime in entering the apartment or in returning fire once they were shot at. That said, I think the way they went about executing the warrant was needlessly aggressive and should have been seen as likely to result in violence. Why break down the door and go crashing into an unknown situation? I didn’t see anything in any of the stories about the case that indicated that Ms. Taylor was suspected of anything other than perhaps receiving packages, presumably of drugs. Why not contact her by knocking louder or longer, or calling on the phone and telling her to come out with her hands up?
 
e_blazer said:
I’m not covering for anyone. I’m simply stating that the law, as best I understand it, does not support a conclusion that the police committed a crime in entering the apartment or in returning fire once they were shot at. That said, I think the way they went about executing the warrant was needlessly aggressive and should have been seen as likely to result in violence. Why break down the door and go crashing into an unknown situation? I didn’t see anything in any of the stories about the case that indicated that Ms. Taylor was suspected of anything other than perhaps receiving packages, presumably of drugs. Why not contact her by knocking louder or longer, or calling on the phone and telling her to come out with her hands up?
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The attorney for the Taylor family is saying that he's contacted the post office and they have no record of a police inquiry for that address about packages received. If that turns out to be a complete fabrication in the warrant application the police should face criminal charges.

What was presented to the grand jury does need to be made public in this case.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
The attorney for the Taylor family is saying that he's contacted the post office and they have no record of a police inquiry for that address about packages received. If that turns out to be a complete fabrication in the warrant application the police should face criminal charges.

What was presented to the grand jury does need to be made public in this case.
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100%. And, the people who work as cops with a salary that WE provide, should have everything they do made public. They need to have checks and balances.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
The attorney for the Taylor family is saying that he's contacted the post office and they have no record of a police inquiry for that address about packages received. If that turns out to be a complete fabrication in the warrant application the police should face criminal charges.

What was presented to the grand jury does need to be made public in this case.
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There needs to be transparency. If police officers lied to obtain the warrant, I would presume that the judge who signed it would push for an investigation. I’m not a lawyer and I have no idea how that would impact any ultimate culpability there might be in Breonna Taylor’s death. If a crime was committed by the police and there is proof enough to convict them, great. But the seeming willingness by so many to make sweeping assumptions about motives and to presume that the police are guilty any time a Black person dies at the hands of police, absent any real proof, is not the way to justice for Blacks. Justice can never be bought with injustice.
 
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I took a look at the reports on the case again. The warrant was obtained based on an affidavit signed by Detective Joshua Jaynes. He was not one of the three officers who served the warrant. If there is a problem with the affidavit, Detective Jaynes is the one who would have to answer for that.
 
Chuck and Shaq were pretty unprofessional a couple nights ago. They’re lucky this is an emotional time or they probably should lose their jobs.
 
ehizzy3 said:
Did this not get posted?

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USA Today did a fact check on that and other rumors:

Claim: The officer who was shot was hit by friendly fire

The claim gained traction after national criminal justice reform activist Shaun King tweeted May 14 that, "It is now believed that the police officer who got shot in the leg in the shooting of Breonna Taylor was shot by 'friendly fire' from his own officers.

Mattingly was shot by Kenneth Walker, who fired from inside the apartment.

The bullet struck Mattingly's femoral artery after piercing his wallet, which he kept in his left, front pocket, Wine said. Even so, Mattingly nearly bled to death, he said.

"This was not something that they were trying to sweep under the rug," Wine said.

But on Sept. 1, Steve Romines, an attorney representing Walker in a civil suit against the city, said his review of the evidence indicates Mattingly was struck by friendly fire.

"We know police are firing wildly from various angles," Romines said. "The timeline and evidence at the scene is more indicative of (police) actually shooting Mattingly than it is Kenny Walker."

Ultimately, Cameron quashed Romines' theory, saying Mattingly was struck by a 9 mm round; officers on scene all carried .40 caliber handguns.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...na-taylor-fact-check-rumors-wrong/3515068001/
 
ehizzy3 said:
Chuck and Shaq were pretty unprofessional a couple nights ago. They’re lucky this is an emotional time or they probably should lose their jobs.
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There's a difference. They gave their opinions on a sports commentary show. Jalen Rose shouted his opinion that the police were murderers during a national broadcast of a NBA game. There's an appropriate time and place for everything and that wasn't it, in my opinion. Broadcasters have been fired for much less. Notably, I haven't seen a single word was said about him getting fired.
 
e_blazer said:
There's a difference. They gave their opinions on a sports commentary show. Jalen Rose shouted his opinion that the police were murderers during a national broadcast of a NBA game. There's an appropriate time and place for everything and that wasn't it, in my opinion. Broadcasters have been fired for much less. Notably, I haven't seen a single word was said about him getting fired.
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they basically have the same show. I’ll agree to disagree on the rest
 
ehizzy3 said:
they basically have the same show. I’ll agree to disagree on the rest
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That's fair. I've never said that we should all have the same opinions around here. I was offended the other day when you referred to me as a boot-licker. We've been posting on the same message boards for a long time and, while we do have different backgrounds and different takes on things, I'd hope that you know that I usually try to be fair in listening to opposing points of view. I've already said on this issue that I hope that they're able to successfully prosecute the cop who fired blindly into the apartment. I've also said that I think that the methods that they used to enter the apartment were dumb and lead to the whole thing escalating to a shoot-out. All I've said is that, based on the sum total of the things I've seen reported, the cops were within legal bounds to enter the apartment and that once they were shot at, they had the legal right to return fire. It's horrible that Breonna Taylor died as a result, but horrible things happen every day. We settle wrongful death cases in this country by payment of damages, which is what happened here. It doesn't bring her back to life and it doesn't make up for her loss, but neither would prosecuting police officers who were just trying to do their jobs.
 
e_blazer said:
That's fair. I've never said that we should all have the same opinions around here. I was offended the other day when you referred to me as a boot-licker. We've been posting on the same message boards for a long time and, while we do have different backgrounds and different takes on things, I'd hope that you know that I usually try to be fair in listening to opposing points of view. I've already said on this issue that I hope that they're able to successfully prosecute the cop who fired blindly into the apartment. I've also said that I think that the methods that they used to enter the apartment were dumb and lead to the whole thing escalating to a shoot-out. All I've said is that, based on the sum total of the things I've seen reported, the cops were within legal bounds to enter the apartment and that once they were shot at, they had the legal right to return fire. It's horrible that Breonna Taylor died as a result, but horrible things happen every day. We settle wrongful death cases in this country by payment of damages, which is what happened here. It doesn't bring her back to life and it doesn't make up for her loss, but neither would prosecuting police officers who were just trying to do their jobs.
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I apologize that I offended you. I was emotional over the outcome and lack of justice.

I still don’t think we have heard all the facts and it’s ridiculous there was no body cam footage
 
ehizzy3 said:
I apologize that I offended you. I was emotional over the outcome and lack of justice.

I still don’t think we have heard all the facts and it’s ridiculous there was no body cam footage
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I'll get over it. ;)

I'm sure that we haven't heard all of the facts. I don't know if we ever will. The cops involved were detectives, that may factor in as to whether they wear the body cams that typical patrol guys do. I think that we're at the point when body cams have to be a requirement for all police.

I get that people think that there could be a major cover-up here, but I guess it doesn't make sense to me that the facts are going to be different than what's been revealed so far. The boyfriend admits that he fired his gun. The only way this could play out any different is if the police went in with guns blazing and he was returning fire, but that's not what I've read. He said that he and Breonna heard people pounding on the door and asked who it was, but didn't hear an answer. When the police crashed through the door, he thought it was a break-in and fired his gun.
 
illmatic99 said:
Why did the city settle for $12 million if there was nothing wrong with her shooting?
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I mean, I’m sure they (the police) did not go into the situation looking to kill her, however when being fired upon and hit, they returned fire. She wasn’t the one who shot, it was unfortunate, but she was next to the shooter. Thus, the best thing to do is give her family money at that point because the cops weren’t gonna get charged with murder for doing their jobs AND being fired upon and hit. This was the ultimate case of wrong place, wrong time.
 
GhostOfPGA said:
I mean, I’m sure they (the police) did not go into the situation looking to kill her, however when being fired upon and hit, they returned fire. She wasn’t the one who shot, it was unfortunate, but she was next to the shooter. Thus, the best thing to do is give her family money at that point because the cops weren’t gonna get charged with murder for doing their jobs AND being fired upon and hit. This was the ultimate case of wrong place, wrong time.
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I read today that it wasn't the boyfriends bullet that hit the cop...it was friendly fire from his own team...hit his wallet in his front pocket and got an artery...it was his team that accidentally shot him. The bullet removed proved that according to the story
 
riverman said:
I read today that it wasn't the boyfriends bullet that hit the cop...it was friendly fire from his own team...hit his wallet in his front pocket and got an artery...it was his team that accidentally shot him. The bullet removed proved that according to the story
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Dude that was fact checked literally 6 posts above mine... he was struck by a 9mm round the cops were carrying .40 caliber handguns...
 
GhostOfPGA said:
Dude that was fact checked literally 6 posts above mine... he was struck by a 9mm round the cops were carrying .40 caliber handguns...
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just stating what I read....and a cop can carry a second weapon I'd imagine...I don't read every post in most threads...I open the site and go to recent posts ...it's all good. I know cops know how to create an alibi and have each other's backs. Also how to plant evidence. I certainly don't know enough to assume anything
 
riverman said:
just stating what I read....and a cop can carry a second weapon I'd imagine...I don't read every post in most threads...I open the site and go to recent posts ...it's all good. I know cops know how to create an alibi and have each other's backs. Also how to plant evidence. I certainly don't know enough to assume anything
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Kenneth Walker had the only known 9 mm pistol at the scene. He admits he fired a shot from it when the cops broke in. Seems like a real stretch to suppose a cop switches to a second gun in the heat of a gun fight. I think folks are working way too hard to make this something other than what it was: a shit show search raid that went totally wrong, resulted in a horrible and needless death, but ultimately was not a criminal act by the police.
 
e_blazer said:
Kenneth Walker had the only known 9 mm pistol at the scene. He admits he fired a shot from it when the cops broke in. Seems like a real stretch to suppose a cop switches to a second gun in the heat of a gun fight. I think folks are working way too hard to make this something other than what it was: a shit show search raid that went totally wrong, resulted in a horrible and needless death, but ultimately was not a criminal act by the police.
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that could totally be right...the article I read said the bullet did not match the guys gun....which is why it's possible there was a burner weapon on site ...just possible..not fact and not hard to speculate about at all. Hard to trust the police dept much these days given the recent abuses of power but hopefully there's no cover up
 
riverman said:
that could totally be right...the article I read said the bullet did not match the guys gun....which is why it's possible there was a burner weapon on site ...just possible..not fact and not hard to speculate about at all. Hard to trust the police dept much these days given the recent abuses of power but hopefully there's no cover up
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The ballistics report said the bullet was too damaged to verify that it came from Walkers gun: “due to limited markings of comparative value, (the) item was neither identified nor eliminated as having been fired from #45 (Walker’s 9 mm pistol). It had blood on it, which supported that it was the bullet that hit the officer. It was from a 9 mm gun and all of the police were using guns that fired .40 cal ammunition. No other 9 mm bullets were found. Walker admits firing one shot. That all is consistent with a conclusion that his bullet hit the cop. As far as any charges against the police goes, it seems to me that Walker’s statement that he fired a shot in the direction of the door is all that ultimately matters. Police can legally return fire to defend themselves.
 
e_blazer said:
Kenneth Walker had the only known 9 mm pistol at the scene. He admits he fired a shot from it when the cops broke in. Seems like a real stretch to suppose a cop switches to a second gun in the heat of a gun fight. I think folks are working way too hard to make this something other than what it was: a shit show search raid that went totally wrong, resulted in a horrible and needless death, but ultimately was not a criminal act by the police.
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e_blazer said:
This is old and has been debunked.
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debunked by who...the AG's press conference? Has the police department complied with the open records request yet?

what I read was that the AG said that the police involved were only issued .40 caliber service weapons. But if one of them had been issued a 9MM service weapon, it does enter some doubt into the equation. I also read the medical examiner failed to perform a gun powder residue test on the injured cop, which is almost always SOP, and would help to determine the distance from weapon for the injury.

still, the entire situation stinks to high heaven and black America is right to be enraged. There is always wiggle room and mitigation for police, none for victims, and almost never any reform of procedures and process. I think we all know that before the year is out, more minorities will be killed by police in questionable circumstances just as fucked up as the ones we're talking about here. And of course, no concrete changes, but the country is tired of the protests so those people should shut up and take the gains they've made...even though they haven't made any
 
wizenheimer said:
debunked by who...the AG's press conference? Has the police department complied with the open records request yet?

what I read was that the AG said that the police involved were only issued .40 caliber service weapons. But if one of them had been issued a 9MM service weapon, it does enter some doubt into the equation. I also read the medical examiner failed to perform a gun powder residue test on the injured cop, which is almost always SOP, and would help to determine the distance from weapon for the injury.

still, the entire situation stinks to high heaven and black America is right to be enraged. There is always wiggle room and mitigation for police, none for victims, and almost never any reform of procedures and process. I think we all know that before the year is out, more minorities will be killed by police in questionable circumstances just as fucked up as the ones we're talking about here. And of course, no concrete changes, but the country is tired of the protests so those people should shut up and take the gains they've made...even though they haven't made any
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Let’s assume that a cop had a 9 mm despite the AG report. Let’s assume that the friendly fire scenario is true and the cop who was wounded was shot by another cop. It makes no difference as to whether murder charges should have been filed. Kenneth Walker admits he fired a round at the people breaking into the apartment. That’s all that is needed for the police to be justified in returning fire. The police entered the premises legally and were shot at. They can shoot back.
 
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