Black People can't be racist (1 Viewer)

[e_blazer]

Here's a pretty good primer on the issues relating to reparations:

http://www.crf-usa.org/brown-v-board-50th-anniversary/reparations-for-slavery-reading.html

 

[Denny Crane]

So do you have to create a government agency just to verify heritage and determine value?

Yep.

The value is an equal share to those that qualify at the time reparations are agreed upon.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yep.

The value is an equal share to those that qualify at the time reparations are agreed upon.

So if you pay out reparations to people with relatives who were slaves, do you pay out reparations to Native Americans?

 

[dviss1]

See, this is you not getting me. What happed to you suckef, and had I been there, I would have done something.

My point was, shit happens to everyone, from both races. It's people like you and I that need to come together and stop it.

But that's my point. Your response to my story wasn't empathetic at all. You simply respond with it happens to everyone and here's my story. That doesn't bring us together. So when you say people like you and I need to come together to stop it, the way you go about it is counterproductive.

 

[dviss1]

Here's to a time in the future when there's nothing to "get". It would be stupid to say that our society hasn't come a long way since the civil rights movement of the '60s. It would be equally stupid to say that skin pigmentation doesn't still have serious ramifications on chances of success or the way that people are treated at times by certain elements of the judicial system. To say it's just a matter of skin pigmentation certainly is an oversimplification. Poor people are treated more unfairly by the system than middle- and upper-class people, and percentage-wise, more black people are poor than whites. Certain things about poor urban lifestyle, like less family stability, greater gang participation, etc. undoubtedly have an influence in disparities in criminal prosecution statistics and so on. That said, I can understand the anger being expressed by the BLM folks and dviss1 when people parrot back the "all lives matter" line. Of course they do, but saying that diminishes the point being made that the game feels fixed against blacks.

As a white guy from a lower middle-class family, I have to say that it irritates me when black people talk about "white privilege". My family couldn't pay for college so I worked and joined ROTC to get through on my own. Nobody ever gave me anything. I worked my ass off in my career and have been self-employed making a decent living through my own efforts for the past 30 years. That said, I have to admit that part of my irritation is that I know that there's at least an element of truth in the sentiment of white privilege. In getting where I'm at, I didn't have to overcome any prejudice based upon my skin color. While my family didn't have much money, I did have a stable home life with a mom and dad who loved me and kept me safe and provided my basic needs.

I'm not sure why I'm bothering to write this other than to say that I think I do "get" at least a part of "it". I'm not sure how or if things will ever be completely fixed so that everybody has a fair shot at a good life. I do think that if more people would take the time to really listen to each other, it would be a help.

White privilege doesn't mean you didn't have to work for what you have. It has never meant that.

 

[Denny Crane]

So if you pay out reparations to people with relatives who were slaves, do you pay out reparations to Native Americans?

Separate issue.

We paid reparations to interred japanese during WW II.

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-01/news/mn-1299_1_budget-agreement

 

[dviss1]

White privilege.

40 acres and a mule for white people. Blacks owned as slaves saw zero for their labor.

Fine foundation upun which to build a house that divided cannot stand.

I couldn't find the word "Irish" in jfizzleraider's link.

Obama blew it. He spent $trillions on foolish things, when he could have paid reparations.

Once those are paid, it's every man for himself. I'd have no empathy at that point. It would be fair.

There's no way the first black president could, would, or should give reparations. That would have to be a White person at the helm. Conversely we don't want them anyway. We simply want equal opportunity. Unfortunately, that is the hardest thing to achieve.

 

[Denny Crane]

There's no way the first black president could, would, or should give reparations. That would have to be a White person at the helm. Conversely we don't want them anyway. We simply want equal opportunity. Unfortunately, that is the hardest thing to achieve.

There is no equal opportunity without reparations.

Whites benefitted from free labor for centuries. If black slaves were freed and equal opportunity provided from day 1, whites started from that point with the huge advantage and blacks from centuries behind.

http://gawker.com/what-reparations-in-america-could-look-like-1633066247

The Pew Research Center estimates that white households are worth roughly 20 times as much as black households, and that whereas only 15 percent of whites have zero or negative wealth, more than a third of blacks do.

The income gap between black and white households is roughly the same today as it was in 1970. Patrick Sharkey, a sociologist at New York University, studied children born from 1955 through 1970 and found that 4 percent of whites and 62 percent of blacks across America had been raised in poor neighborhoods. A generation later, the same study showed, virtually nothing had changed.

The latest census figures show that in 2013, the median black household earned just under $35,000, while the median white household earned more than $58,000. The black unemployment rate has been twice as high as the white unemployment rate for the past 50 years. These are not random economic fluctuations. When you enslave people, steal their labor, and then oppress them for countless generations afterwards, the economic effects persist.

 

[dviss1]

I haven't been there, is it good? I'm actually moving out of Tualatin (all the way to Wilsonville!) next month so I might try it soon if it has your recommendation.

No it's a dive bar that has decent food. Ran by idiots. There's no reason to go. Lol. I was gonna say if you'd been there you may have seen me there DJ'ing and running karaoke.

 

[dviss1]

There is no equal opportunity without reparations.

Whites benefitted from free labor for centuries. If black slaves were freed and equal opportunity provided from day 1, whites started from that point with the huge advantage and blacks from centuries behind.

http://gawker.com/what-reparations-in-america-could-look-like-1633066247

The Pew Research Center estimates that white households are worth roughly 20 times as much as black households, and that whereas only 15 percent of whites have zero or negative wealth, more than a third of blacks do.

The income gap between black and white households is roughly the same today as it was in 1970. Patrick Sharkey, a sociologist at New York University, studied children born from 1955 through 1970 and found that 4 percent of whites and 62 percent of blacks across America had been raised in poor neighborhoods. A generation later, the same study showed, virtually nothing had changed.

The latest census figures show that in 2013, the median black household earned just under $35,000, while the median white household earned more than $58,000. The black unemployment rate has been twice as high as the white unemployment rate for the past 50 years. These are not random economic fluctuations. When you enslave people, steal their labor, and then oppress them for countless generations afterwards, the economic effects persist.

This post just made MarAzul's head explode.

 

[e_blazer]

White privilege doesn't mean you didn't have to work for what you have. It has never meant that.

I'm sure you're right with respect to its accepted meaning in the discussion of black issues in this country. I suspect that for a sizable portion of the white population hearing black people talk about white privilege, that thought is front and center. Sometimes being "privileged" doesn't seem all that privileged when you're struggling to make ends meet and feeling like the system has never cut you much of a break either. Doesn't mean that there still isn't privilege relative to the black community, but it needs to be borne in mind when discussing the topic.

 

[Natebishop3]

There is no equal opportunity without reparations.

How do you figure? Reparations is a nice thought, but it doesn't magically fix everything. How many of the millions of blacks in the United States can prove direct relation to slavery? What about the rest of black Americans? What about the other people that could use a leg up?

Honestly, do you think reparations would do more for this country than spending trillions on infrastructure, education, and jobs? Give a man a fish and you feed him for a night, teach him to fish etc etc etc?

 

[riverman]

Hawaiians are supposed to get 5 acres but it takes supposedly 99 years to get it and in the meantime, the land is leased to golf courses, hotels, etc....There are a lot of homeless Hawaiians who have not benefited from their 5 acres and maybe, their great grandchildren will get them someday

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

White privilege.

40 acres and a mule for white people. Blacks owned as slaves saw zero for their labor.

Fine foundation upun which to build a house that divided cannot stand.

I couldn't find the word "Irish" in jfizzleraider's link.

Obama blew it. He spent $trillions on foolish things, when he could have paid reparations.

Once those are paid, it's every man for himself. I'd have no empathy at that point. It would be fair.

Uhhhh maybe because it had nothing to do with the Irish there buddy.

 

[oldfisherman]

I believe the first place to start working on race equality is at the very foundation, our schools.

Until equal numbers of each race complete high school, and also all levels of college, equality in the workplace, income, and personal wealth will never happen.

I do not have a clue how to fix our schools to make that happen.

 

[riverman]

I think reparations are fair. I think the folks who bought and owned slaves for 3 centuries here are responsible for making things right..3 centuries of slave.ry..also the african slave traders who sold them to the merchants for 14 centuries are as responsible if not more responsible.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

I think reparations are fair. I think the folks who bought and owned slaves for 3 centuries here are responsible for making things right..3 centuries of slave.ry..also the african slave traders who sold them to the merchants for 14 centuries are as responsible if not more responsible.

It's completely preposterous for taxpayers today to pay for reparations.

 

[Denny Crane]

How do you figure? Reparations is a nice thought, but it doesn't magically fix everything. How many of the millions of blacks in the United States can prove direct relation to slavery? What about the rest of black Americans? What about the other people that could use a leg up?

Honestly, do you think reparations would do more for this country than spending trillions on infrastructure, education, and jobs? Give a man a fish and you feed him for a night, teach him to fish etc etc etc?

The rest of black americans are owed $0 because their ancestors' labor wasn't stolen.

http://www.myslaveancestors.com - people can and do trace their lineage to slaves.

Reparations IS teaching them how to fish. It is granting them the same access to the fisheries as everyone else has enjoyed all along.

We have already spent tens of $trillions on infrastructure, education, jobs, and poverty programs. Why double down on failed results?

Anyone not a descendant of slaves isn't part of this reparations discussion. "What about _______?" is misdirection.

 

[riverman]

It's completely preposterous for taxpayers today to pay for reparations.

I think it's fair if families that owned and profited from slavery paid reparations to each slave decent they were responsible for enslaving. I don't have an answer but like Denny said, we spend money on some really useless shit that doesn't help us here on the homefront all the time. I don't have an answer for this problem. We made steps in the Native American treaties we've broken over the course of history but not all of them for sure.

 

[Denny Crane]

It's completely preposterous for taxpayers today to pay for reparations.

Of course taxpayers pay the reparations. We all benefit indirectly from centuries of progress began with slave labor. The government is the responsible party.

The precedent is there. The government paid reparations to the Japanese and to a number of indian tribes.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

I think it's fair if families that owned and profited from slavery paid reparations to each slave decent they were responsible for enslaving. I don't have an answer but like Denny said, we spend money on some really useless shit that doesn't help us here on the homefront all the time. I don't have an answer for this problem. We made steps in the Native American treaties we've broken over the course of history but not all of them for sure.

Just because we waste money on things doesn't make it ok. Wasting money is bad, especially when this country has been hemorrhaging money. Giving people.moneywon't change what happened. And why stop there? Obviously the Japanese put it internment camps should then hey money too, right?

I think the better play is to do everything in our power to make the USA more equal. Give them every opportunity to make their American dream. Harshly punish any person for hate crimes, especially cops that are committing these atrocities.

Giving people money doesn't help them, giving them tools to improve themselves and have a chance is much better.

I'd much rather offer advantages for them to attend higher education if it came down to it than giving cash

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

And yes the Japanese got reparations, just rememered that after typing so.

But just a heads up for how ridiculous reparations s can get, I'm 1/8 native American and can get federally subsidized health care

 

[Denny Crane]

Just because we waste money on things doesn't make it ok. Wasting money is bad, especially when this country has been hemorrhaging money. Giving people.moneywon't change what happened. And why stop there? Obviously the Japanese put it internment camps should then hey money too, right?

I think the better play is to do everything in our power to make the USA more equal. Give them every opportunity to make their American dream. Harshly punish any person for hate crimes, especially cops that are committing these atrocities.

Giving people money doesn't help them, giving them tools to improve themselves and have a chance is much better.

I'd much rather offer advantages for them to attend higher education if it came down to it than giving cash

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-01/news/mn-1299_1_budget-agreement

Payments to WWII Internees to Begin : Reparations: The budget agreement clears the way for the program. The oldest survivors will be the first to receive the $20,000 checks.
October 01, 1990|From Associated Press

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Point is, giving money to people generations later from the atrocities doesn't change what happened. Strengthen them to improve themselves.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-01/news/mn-1299_1_budget-agreement

Payments to WWII Internees to Begin : Reparations: The budget agreement clears the way for the program. The oldest survivors will be the first to receive the $20,000 checks.
October 01, 1990|From Associated Press

Yes I got that after I posted the reply. "Survivors" though I think is a key word.

 

[riverman]

And yes the Japanese got reparations, just rememered that after typing so.

But just a heads up for how ridiculous reparations s can get, I'm 1/8 native American and can get federally subsidized health care

so am I but I don't take advantage of it.

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm talking about giving millions of wronged people $trillions to invest in their futures and the futures of their progeny.

The people can buy the 1% if they choose.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

I'm talking about giving millions of wronged people $trillions to invest in their futures and the futures of their progeny.

The people can buy the 1% if they choose.

Were they wronged?. Or was it their ancestors?

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Point is, giving money to people generations later from the atrocities doesn't change what happened. Strengthen them to improve themselves.

This is a very fair point, however I think a good form of reparations would be to spend tax money on historically black neighborhoods that need help. For example more law enforcement in the areas, better schools, supporting small businesses, better infrastructure, etc. Small steps that would lead to actual growth.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

This is a very fair point, however I think a good form of reparations would be to spend tax money on historically black neighborhoods that need help. For example more law enforcement in the areas, better schools, supporting small businesses. Small steps that would lead to actual growth.

Absolutely.

You don't just give your kids wads of cash. They would blow through it in a second. You give them the tools to empower themselves to succeed.

I can't tell you how many times I've given my parents money to see it vanish. Giving people money enables them and doesn't set them up for long term success. Access to college, or improving the neighborhoods would absolutely do so