Blazer players complaining about defensive effort

[OneLifeToLive]

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/i...ers_end_trip_with_loss_to_minnesota_timb.html

“This whole trip is a wake up call,” an irritated Matthews said. “We could easily be 1-3 on this trip, only having played well against Philly. It’s a big-time wake-up call.”

What a troll

He's right. What more needs to be said? I don't think they are playing that well. They are winning inspite of it. That is due to the coach's in game managment in opinion. He's a really good game manager.

The good news is after friday, they will have several days of practice to tune their game up on both end.

 

[illmatic99]

These kinda losses happen once in a while.

Remember when we went into San Antonio last year and beat them by like 40? Can't make too much out of one loss when we're 22-5. The key is to look at the big picture and identifying correctable mistakes. I loved Wessy and LA questioning the D. Great timing too considering we have a few days to practice. It was trending in the right direction for a while, but it has recently gotten back to being in the bottom third of the league. Has to change.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

and MM starts having flashbacks to the pitchfork and torch mobs from Frankenstein.

Much more efficient

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

One thing that occurred to me while reading this. I know that Olshey accumulated assets to obtain Chris Paul and then it seems the plan was to do the same here in hoping a superstar would become available. But in light of the progress of Aldridge and the continuing clutch play by Lillard; this doesn't seem to be the optimal strategy right now. we already have the superstars; we just need better supporting cast.
So we should use some of those assets if an opportunity arises to add quality bench players. Right now. There is really no reason to wait.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

I won't, because I think the team as constructed still has room for internal growth and improvement. Sure, I'm on the "trade for Hawes" bandwagon, but if it doesn't happen, I'm still excited to see how the team will develop, even without any changes. And I don't think a lack of additional moves necessarily signals complacency; it could simply mean that there was nothing available to improve the team for a reasonable cost.

I don't see the point in being critical of Blazer players, or the team, till they've had a half season or more playing together. (Fatty Felton would be the exception obviously, coming to training camp looking like a stuffed eclair.) It takes time to grow as a team and work out the kinks. 22-5 says a lot about how fast this team has bonded/meshed and I wouldn't be critical if they were at .500 at this point. I'm open to a few players joining the Blazers (Haws for instance), but at what expense? That's when these discussions get pretty silly.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

So we should use some of those assets if an opportunity arises to add quality bench players. Right now. There is really no reason to wait.

And why would you or I know better than Olshey what that opportunity (and opportunity cost) is? I don't think we do. The opinion you expressed sets up a giant straw man, as though there is a trade that could be made that would make sense for Portland and would actually happen. Olshey isn't making any moves at 22-5 that is going to disrupt what this team has accomplished. Even the guys that have played below expectations played a role at some point in the 22 wins.

I also think Blazer fans had unreasonable expectations of what a room exception PG, or a 3 mil vet SF, is suppose to provide, but that's another story. And to speak nothing of the affect 22 wins has on adding to those expectations, making them even more unreasonable.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I also think Blazer fans had unreasonable expectations of what a room exception PG, or a 3 mil vet SF, is suppose to provide, but that's another story. And to speak nothing of the affect 22 wins has on adding to those expectations, making them even more unreasonable.

I'm going to disagree with you here, simply because I think most Blazers fans' expectations were based on past performance. Wright has basically been a 15 PER player in his career; this year he's at 12. Mo is putting up his worst stats since his rookie year. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect FA acquisitions to produce at a level comparable to their past five seasons' production, regardless of the salary they commanded. Based on the available data, what Williams and Wright have given us so far this year has been a bit of a disappointment.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

I'm going to disagree with you here, simply because I think most Blazers fans' expectations were based on past performance. Wright has basically been a 15 PER player in his career; this year he's at 12. Mo is putting up his worst stats since his rookie year. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect FA acquisitions to produce at a level comparable to their past five seasons' production, regardless of the salary they commanded. Based on the available data, what Williams and Wright have given us so far this year has been a bit of a disappointment.

And was that past performance under the same coach, within the same system, with the same teammates, playing the same number of minutes?

Mo started every game he played for Utah, and averaged 6 more minutes per game. PER is not a great stat for guards. His AST/TO ratio is a better stat and it's above 2.00 (it was lower when he played with LAC), even though he looks to shoot more than a typical PG, which is kind of his role off the bench with the lack anyone off the bench in a groove yet. His shooting averages are only slightly lower (1% from both 2pt and 3pt). This is his 12th year in the NBA, and he missed 40 games last season with an injury.

What it sound like you're saying is that fans had a perception that Mo was REALLY good and now he is TERRIBLE. I would say that is grounds to say some fans had unreasonable expectations. I also think it's not accurate to read into the stats and come up with hyperbolic interpretations of what they are saying. Mo is an upgrade to Maynor. He is a serviceable back up PG. And, he's good for Dame's growth in practice and in the locker room.

I gotta get the kiddo ready for school, but quickly: Wright is averaging 9 fewer minutes than last season. He's in his 10th NBA season. His shooting averages are similar to last season. Again, new coach, new system, new teammates, reduced role. There's an adjustment period. And I think it's unreasonable to allow our eyes, which only see what we want them to see, to convince us that Mo and Wright should be doing much more than they already are.

Granted, we can disagree, and I want them to perform better too, but I do not have such high expectations at this juncture given what I've already spelled out.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

What it sound like you're saying is that fans had a perception that Mo was REALLY good and now he is TERRIBLE. I would say that is grounds to say some fans had unreasonable expectations. I also think it's not accurate to read into the stats and come up with hyperbolic interpretations of what they are saying. .

Wow, talk about hyperbolic interpretations. I neither said, nor even suggested, that people thought Mo or Wright would be REALLY good, or that they're TERRIBLE. If I were to say something of that nature, I would say people thought they would be on the level of an average starter, and instead they're performing on the level of a below-average bench player. Let's not exaggerate, OK?

Granted, we can disagree, and I want them to perform better too, but I do not have such high expectations at this juncture given what I've already spelled out.

And that's great, that your expectations were lower, given all the variables. That doesn't mean that others' expectations were unreasonable. Ask Wright and Williams if they're satisfied with their individual performances to date. I'm willing to bet that their expectations were more in line with those of the "unreasonable" fans than with yours.

 

[Spud147]

Carlito saying Minny figured out and exposed the Blazers is almost as funny as MM leading a sympathy campaign for Carlito. MM is the speaker and protector for those oppressed on this board!

Norma Ray Bates

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

Mo is putting up his worst stats since his rookie year.

This statement is not accurate. I don't think it's inaccurate for me to say that your statement is representative of someone that percieves Mo as playing TERRIBLE.

And, it's inconsistent with your later statement, "a bit of a disappointment." This statement is not so hyperbolic.

So, which is it? Are you a fan that thinks, "Mo was REALLY good and now he is TERRIBLE", or are you of the opinion that he's been "a bit of a disappointment"? I'll allow you to put yourself in whichever box you prefer, or even come up with a different box that reflects your opinion.

If you’re basing your opinion on “Mo is averaging career worst numbers”, then how can you say you have reasonable expectations? That opinion lacks a great deal of context and thus, is not accurate.

What were YOUR expectations? Should Mo and Wright be having career years in their 13th and 9th years (respectively) in the NBA, with a new coach, new system, reduced role/minutes, and new teammates? What is reasonable? 15 PER? Is your expectation based off a manufactured stat devoid of the reality that these guys are past their prime?

Mo’s assist to turnover ratio is better than it was with the Clippers. His shooting has been a 1-2% lower. It sounds like you’re looking at one or two advanced/manufactured stats in a vacuum (PER) devoid of the context of his reduced role, age, and new team circumstances, 27 games in. I don’t understand what people expect from a Room Exception PG. The Mo criticisms just seem like fans didn’t know, or chose to be incredulous about, what Mo brought to the table. Which leads to unreasonable expectations.

Rather than drone on, EL PRESIDENTE and JfizzleRaider nailed it exactly in this thread (link) , and HailBlazers nailed the rim shot. The opinions they expressed are exactly how I feel about Mo, which means we may have to agree to disagree.

 

[cmeese47]

Mo has been pretty much what he has always been a streaky player he can do real well or real bad on any given night. His FG% needs to improve and his TO rate is not good. Also his defense has been suspect.

For the money we are paying him he has been fine.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Lopez has trouble handling the best centers one on one. We saw it with Bynum and Pek on this trip. Stotts like's to single coverage, which makes this problem very obvious.

I thought Lopez was the best center in the game isn't he?

 

[cmeese47]

BigGame That sounds exactly like the way Blazer fans seem to feel about all the Blazers. Unfortunately the only one it is true of would be LA.

 

[Strenuus]

BigGame That sounds exactly like the way Blazer fans seem to feel about all the Blazers. Unfortunately the only one it is true of would be LA.

Who here thinks Batum is the best SF? Who here thinks Wes is the best SG?

People are selective with what they read. one of the best doesn't mean the best. But, if it fits into the angle they are going for.....

 

[BigGameDamian]

Mo has been pretty much what he has always been a streaky player he can do real well or real bad on any given night. His FG% needs to improve and his TO rate is not good. Also his defense has been suspect.

For the money we are paying him he has been fine.

Ya know whats funny is that I remember in the O-Live forums when Mo was playing for the Cavs Blazers fans really that he'd be a real good pick up for the Blazers, Now they are posting trades with him and talking bad about him.

 

[BrianFromWA]

4-5 years ago he might've been great.

Now I'm talking bad about him when he plays poorly. Since he does that more than not, I can see how you may be getting tired of it.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Mo can miss shots all day long if those shots come in the flow of the offense. I just want him to not be the only guy to touch the frickin' ball in more than one, maybe two possessions per game...

 

[Shooter]

Minny is the worst team we will face till January that's the scary part.

Minny was also the fourth game in five nights.

 

[WillG]

Much more efficient

Brilliant! - We could have used these when McMillan was in town.

I'll get my people to contact your people to get this thing on the production line.

 

[WillG]

The defense was bad against Minnesota, but it has been average for most of the season anyway.
We lost because our stellar shooting form fell back to earth percentage wise.

The shot selection for the Blazers is their achilles heel. When it's falling, as it has been, they are nigh on unguardable, but when it's not - you get the Minnesota game.
Too many forced shots are going up and guys with a wide open lane are settling for the jumpshot. If they expect success come play-off time they need to work more on punishing the opponent for their misgivings.
If the defense leaves a guy open - take it hard to the hole - don't settle for a partially open 18 footer.

Whilst a great start to the season - this game, where their shot isn't falling, has been on the cards for a while now. It highlights that without the stellar shooting to start the season, the Blazers would still be middle of the pack and, with the playoffs in mind, still need to make some philosophical changes.

IMO.

 

[BBert]

I thought Lopez was the best center in the game isn't he?

BigGame That sounds exactly like the way Blazer fans seem to feel about all the Blazers. Unfortunately the only one it is true of would be LA.

Troll, troll, troll your boat.

Thanks for contributing to the forum. It's great to have you here.

 

[julius]

I thought Lopez was the best center in the game isn't he?

you made the right choice there Slypokerdog.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

Is there something wrong with saying, "The Blazers shot poorly."? The cliche "back down to earth", or any variation thereof, is so lame and lazy.

I can't believe Lillard is falling back to earth so fast! 8-12... 7-14.... someone get Absolute Zero a parachute!

 

[cmeese47]

Is there something wrong with saying, "The Blazers shot poorly."? The cliche "back down to earth", or any variation thereof, is so lame and lazy.

I can't believe Lillard is falling back to earth so fast! 8-12... 7-14.... someone get Absolute Zero a parachute!

The need to correct everyone is the epitome of narcissism people like using red herrings and cliches because they are easy to remember and fun to use. Last I checked a web forum was not an academic essay so pretty sure cliched writing is okay.

 

[PapaG]

BlazerFanatic is me on massive steroids. Thanks be to Jeebus that she arrived on the scene. I'm now considered a rational poster. Lots of Lubz to my new BFf!

 

[PapaG]

The need to correct everyone is the epitome of narcissism people like using red herrings and cliches because they are easy to remember and fun to use. Last I checked a web forum was not an academic essay so pretty sure cliched writing is okay.

Who the fuck is this guy?

 

[magnifier661]

The need to correct everyone is the epitome of narcissism people like using red herrings and cliches because they are easy to remember and fun to use. Last I checked a web forum was not an academic essay so pretty sure cliched writing is okay.

Kimchi is a weird poster. He seems like he thinks he knows what he's talking about.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

Who the fuck is this guy?

Rhetorical question SMASH!

Kimchi is a weird poster. He seems like he thinks he knows what he's talking about.

He sees himself as the necessary opposing voice to Blazer Homers and Kool-aid drinkers, creating great discussion, and making valid points. I don't get that from perspective from his writings. I hear antagonistic, anti-blazer rhetoric, that is perpetually unsatisfied with Portland's inability to land LeBron James and perennial championships. Anything short of that and it's a barrage of slinging cow pies at everything in the Blazer organization from Allen, to Olshey, to players, and even the trainers, hoping one cow pie will stick and someone will agree with him. If my opinion sounds personal, it's not. It's just an informed observation of his posts over the years.

BlazerFanatic is me on massive steroids. Thanks be to Jeebus that she arrived on the scene. I'm now considered a rational poster. Lots of Lubz to my new BFf!

Drugs r bad, umkay?

 

[PHXBlazer1]

We're the best defensive team in the NBA and it's not even close. We've outscored the opponent more times than anyone else.