Blazers after Asik again?

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I really don't think Asik is a cancer. He signed in Houston last year to be the starting C of the future, they had a nice season and made the playoffs and did so with a career year from him. Hes pissed that they replaced him. Probably in his mind Houston violated their agreement. He knows hes a good starter. Would you rather your legacy be as a bench player or a starter?

I know a lot of people will say they want the guy who would take a reduced role to win, but its just unrealistic. Same reason why I don't blame Harden for leaving Houston. Do you want to be known as the 3rd fiddle or backup to the best C in the league or do you want to have a go of it on your own? If you believe in yourself you'd probably rather go start somewhere else thinking that you're going to help that team become a winner.

I'm not arguing the overall point here, as I pretty much agree. But I am curious.... Your Harden reference.... Was he unhappy with his role and wanted out? I was under the impression OKC's ownership made the move for financial reasons, and am still hoping it's the case (being a Portland fan, it's nice to know you have an advantage on teams..... Despite running the team like a business, if Portland is close, Allen will pay to acquire talent to push us over - I have no doubts on that).

 

[KingSpeed]

I really don't think Asik is a cancer. He signed in Houston last year to be the starting C of the future, they had a nice season and made the playoffs and did so with a career year from him. Hes pissed that they replaced him. Probably in his mind Houston violated their agreement. He knows hes a good starter. Would you rather your legacy be as a bench player or a starter?

I know a lot of people will say they want the guy who would take a reduced role to win, but its just unrealistic. Same reason why I don't blame Harden for leaving Houston. Do you want to be known as the 3rd fiddle or backup to the best C in the league or do you want to have a go of it on your own? If you belieIve in yourself you'd probably rather go start somewhere else thinking that you're going to help that team become a winner.

Harden turned down OKC's offer. He had the chance to be a part of a dynasty and turned it down. And OKC management had a chance to start a dynasty and they turned down what Harden wanted. They were both stupid. Neither of them are winners. Neither Houston or OKC will win a title in the next 5 years.

 

[KingSpeed]

How does Asik compare to Camby? Aldridge said he didn't consider Camby a true center. Will he consider Asik a true center?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Don't think Houston even wants Boozer at all.

Houston's getting to the point where it won't be able to be picky. If they were winning everything then they could afford just to sit Asik down and call his bluff. But they're looking pretty damn shaky right now.

Where are the Asik to Chicago rumors coming from?

Well this one's not a rumor, I just made it up. All the others are just voices in your head.

 

[Run BJM]

I'm not arguing the overall point here, as I pretty much agree. But I am curious.... Your Harden reference.... Was he unhappy with his role and wanted out? I was under the impression OKC's ownership made the move for financial reasons, and am still hoping it's the case (being a Portland fan, it's nice to know you have an advantage on teams..... Despite running the team like a business, if Portland is close, Allen will pay to acquire talent to push us over - I have no doubts on that).

If I remember correctly, a lot of critics were saying Harden should take a paycut to keep the core together. However he was already coming off the bench and subordinate to Durant and Westbrook. Plus Westbrook didn't back down from demanding the max, and they gave it to him after a cold war with him. It seemed like Harden would have stayed in OKC if they payed him the max, but they chose not to. He could have stayed for less money, but I don't blame him for moving on when OKC expected him to get the shaft in both starting/deferring to those guys AND getting paid less. He walked away from a good situation but do you blame him when Houston was offering a max contract, a starring role, and good odds of landing another superstar in the near future (which they came through on)?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

How does Asik compare to Camby? Aldridge said he didn't consider Camby a true center. Will he consider Asik a true center?

What do you mean "will he"? He either does or he doesn't. You don't actually think we're going to trade for Asik, do you?

(And in answer to your question: they put out fairly similar stats (or did before Camby's age caught up to him) in that neither scores but both rebound and block shots, but actually on the court they don't look anything alike.)

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

Like this mags?

That is the epitome of redundancy. It is also an example of the JJ Hickson effect.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

I really don't think Asik is a cancer. He signed in Houston last year to be the starting C of the future, they had a nice season and made the playoffs and did so with a career year from him. Hes pissed that they replaced him. Probably in his mind Houston violated their agreement. He knows hes a good starter. Would you rather your legacy be as a bench player or a starter?

I know a lot of people will say they want the guy who would take a reduced role to win, but its just unrealistic. Same reason why I don't blame Harden for leaving Houston. Do you want to be known as the 3rd fiddle or backup to the best C in the league or do you want to have a go of it on your own? If you believe in yourself you'd probably rather go start somewhere else thinking that you're going to help that team become a winner.

I am not going that far, being ridiculously hyperbolic, by calling him a cancer, but his attitude is a concern. I don't fault him for being disappointed, but is that an excuse to stop being a professional, who make millions, to the detriment of your team?

 

[KingSpeed]

What do you mean "will he"? He either does or he doesn't. You don't actually think we're going to trade for Asik, do you?

(And in answer to your question: they put out fairly similar stats (or did before Camby's age caught up to him) in that neither scores but both rebound and block shots, but actually on the court they don't look anything alike.)

I hope not. Asik doesn't have a big body like Lopez.

 

[Run BJM]

Harden turned down OKC's offer. He had the chance to be a part of a dynasty and turned it down. And OKC management had a chance to start a dynasty and they turned down what Harden wanted. They were both stupid. Neither of them are winners. Neither Houston or OKC will win a title in the next 5 years.

Harden is CLEARLY worth the max. OKC would have had to pony up to pay him so they asked a max level player to take less than max.

How many times have any athletes taken less than max when they could get max? Duncan? Can't think of many others. And then think that Harden is coming off his rookie contract. You turn down max on your first extension and you better waive bye-bye to any further max offers. Plus you can't predict what's going to happen, and its even more uncertain when you've agreed to be a bench player.

OKC basically asked him to devalue himself in every possible way. I just don't see how you can critique Harden if you look at it from his perspective. You all would stay at jobs with "better" companies who paid less and didn't let you shine to your fullest extent? Or would you go to an up and comer who wanted to pay you what you're worth and let you be the fugging man? Like I said, it seemed like Harden would have stayed and come off the bench with no complaints if they would have at least paid him the max that he was worth. OKC didn't want to. Seemed like Harden would have had to make all of the concessions while OKC, Durant, and Westbrook weren't willing to make any.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I hope not. Asik doesn't have a big body like Lopez.

According to Wikipedia:
Robin Lopez: 7 ft, 255lbs
Omer Asik: 7 ft, 255lbs.
It's almost uncanny.

 

[Run BJM]

I am not going that far, being ridiculously hyperbolic, by calling him a cancer, but his attitude is a concern. I don't fault him for being disappointed, but is that an excuse to stop being a professional, who make millions, to the detriment of your team?

Yeah he's been a bitch about the whole situation. But I bet he does feel betrayed. I'm sure Morey was buttering him up during free agency the prior year about how they thought he was a starter and could start next to Harden for the next 10 years, etc. etc.

He hasn't handled it great, but some people in this thread have indicated hes been problematic before. Was he causing problems in Chicago? Was he problematic last year? I wasn't following either situation closely but I don't remember anything like that.

 

[Run BJM]

I hope not. Asik doesn't have a big body like Lopez.

Have you seen Asik play? Hes fugging huge.

 

[KingSpeed]

Both sides were wrong. Harden should've taken less to win. OKC should've paid him more to win. Neither budged cuz they both care more about money than winning. Also, you never know if Harden might've eventually become a starter. Also, Harden's value was slightly lower from a poor performance in the Finals. He did not play like a max player.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Harden is CLEARLY worth the max.

So long as you don't give a shit about defense:

 

[Strenuus]

lmao wow.

 

[KingSpeed]

So long as you don't give a shit about defense:

Hahahaha

 

[Strenuus]

So long as you don't give a shit about defense:

The only thing that would make this better is if he flopped because Nash was in the vicinity. I'd of lost it. lmfao.

 

[Run BJM]

So long as you don't give a shit about defense:

So you wouldn't have Harden on the Blazers if he was willing to sign but demanded the max? Are you not going to pay Lillard the max because hes a shit defender? How about prime Nowitzki, Nash, Kevin Love? You really wouldn't pay Harden max?

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

Yeah he's been a bitch about the whole situation. But I bet he does feel betrayed. I'm sure Morey was buttering him up during free agency the prior year about how they thought he was a starter and could start next to Harden for the next 10 years, etc. etc.

He hasn't handled it great, but some people in this thread have indicated hes been problematic before. Was he causing problems in Chicago? Was he problematic last year? I wasn't following either situation closely but I don't remember anything like that.

It was when he played on his Turkish team.

 

[Strenuus]

So you wouldn't have Harden on the Blazers if he was willing to sign but demanded the max? Are you not going to pay Lillard the max because hes a shit defender? How about prime Nowitzki, Nash, Kevin Love? You really wouldn't pay Harden max?

Except for Nowitzki the others haven't proved themselves much in crunch time in the playoffs.

 

[Run BJM]

Both sides were wrong. Harden should've taken less to win. OKC should've paid him more to win. Neither budged cuz they both care more about money than winning. Also, you never know if Harden might've eventually become a starter. Also, Harden's value was slightly lower from a poor performance in the Finals. He did not play like a max player.

I dunno its just insane to me to think that any of you would do any differently in his shoes. Many on this board, but especially the two I'm currently arguing with come off as thinking quite highly of themselves, somewhat arrogant, and wouldn't back down at every possible concession when trying to come to an agreement like Harden was (and I would say I am the same way).

So Harden has to give up money, status as a #1 guy, and a starting role while OKC, Durant, and Westbrook give up nothing? Just on principle it makes no sense that Harden has to be the biggest loser. And I can't speak to your opinion but it seems like most of you PDX fans think Harden is better than Westbrook. If Harden is of the same mind, why the hell does he have to give up everything and everyone else gets everything they wanted? Who's not the team player here? Westbrook and Durant couldn't take 2-3 million less per year so that they could all have equal salaries? It wasn't like everyone didn't see the Westbrook/Harden contract debacles coming.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

According the Houston commentators (wolves @ hou), they're saying the team talked to Asik and assured him that they want him on the team. Asik and McKale said to have talked it out. Sounded like he just needed a tissue and a pat on the back to tell him he is good enough, and smart enough, and dog gone it, people like him. lol

 

[Strenuus]

I dunno its just insane to me to think that any of you would do any differently in his shoes. Many on this board, but especially the two I'm currently arguing with come off as thinking quite highly of themselves, somewhat arrogant, and wouldn't back down at every possible concession when trying to come to an agreement like Harden was (and I would say I am the same way).

So Harden has to give up money, status as a #1 guy, and a starting role while OKC, Durant, and Westbrook give up nothing? Just on principle it makes no sense that Harden has to be the biggest loser. And I can't speak to your opinion but it seems like most of you PDX fans think Harden is better than Westbrook. If Harden is of the same mind, why the hell does he have to give up everything and everyone else gets everything they wanted? Who's not the team player here? Westbrook and Durant couldn't take 2-3 million less per year so that they could all have equal salaries? It wasn't like everyone didn't see the Westbrook/Harden contract debacles coming.

When they are making 15 mil a year, you'd think taking 2 or 3 mil off is a no-brainer. But I am under the belief that the player has very little say in monetary, that it's all agents and the greed. Yes, fair market value, etc. etc.

That said, Harden is in the best place possible for him.

 

[Run BJM]

Except for Nowitzki the others haven't proved themselves much in crunch time in the playoffs.

Lillard has proven much less than any of them and you all would throw the kitchen sink at him TODAY to keep him if he demanded it.

 

[Strenuus]

According the Houston commentators (wolves @ hou), they're saying the team talked to Asik and assured him that they want him on the team. Asik and McKale said to have talked it out. Sounded like he just needed a tissue and a pat on the back to tell him he is good enough, and smart enough, and dog gone it, people like him. lol

Of course Houston would say that. But is it the truth? That's the bigger question!

 

[magnifier661]

I dunno its just insane to me to think that any of you would do any differently in his shoes. Many on this board, but especially the two I'm currently arguing with come off as thinking quite highly of themselves, somewhat arrogant, and wouldn't back down at every possible concession when trying to come to an agreement like Harden was (and I would say I am the same way).

So Harden has to give up money, status as a #1 guy, and a starting role while OKC, Durant, and Westbrook give up nothing? Just on principle it makes no sense that Harden has to be the biggest loser. And I can't speak to your opinion but it seems like most of you PDX fans think Harden is better than Westbrook. If Harden is of the same mind, why the hell does he have to give up everything and everyone else gets everything they wanted? Who's not the team player here? Westbrook and Durant couldn't take 2-3 million less per year so that they could all have equal salaries? It wasn't like everyone didn't see the Westbrook/Harden contract debacles coming.

What if OKC traded Westbrook instead of Harden for a player like Conley, Jr. Or a group of solid players? Harden plays SG, Durant plays Sf and you have a tough defender in Conley Jr. And probably picks or youth.

Whatever the case, it was a very bad deal. You could have all three in the starting line-up. Westbrook at PG, Harden at 2 and Durant at 3.

You could probably trade for asik even and have a solid defensive center to boot

 

[KingSpeed]

Harden wouldn't be a loser. He'd be on a perennial winner. I haven't said a thing about what I would or would not do. But both OKC and Harden passed on being a champion. That much is true. And if Harden wanted a max offer, he could've played better in the Finals.

 

[Strenuus]

Lillard has proven much less than any of them and you all would throw the kitchen sink at him TODAY to keep him if he demanded it.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm actually on your side that Houston is a great spot for him.

But if people are using the argument of clutchness, Harden hasn't proved it either. But he's a damn good person to have on that team. As Lillard is here.

 

[KingSpeed]

Lillard has proven much less than any of them and you all would throw the kitchen sink at him TODAY to keep him if he demanded it.

And OKC should've given Harden the max. They were both wrong. Neither OKC or Harden cared about winning. And yes, I want Lillard to get the max.