Blazers at Thunder 2/6/09 Game Thread

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B-Roy said:
Because 4 guys were crowding him and he still almost got it. His teammates need to help him and not leave him in the dust, which is what they have been doing.
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I've been saying this since the Dallas Christmas day game. Everyone was bitching about how JJ Barrea and every other person under 6'5 on the Mavericks roster outrebounded Greg and even Joel I believe. Yet if people could go rewatch the game they'd see that Greg was getting boxed out and hung on by two guys (Bass, Dampier, sometimes Howard, sometimes Dirk) and he was still managing to tip it up into a place where our guys could get the rebound. Yet Blake, Travis and even Roy just stood there flat-footed as Barrea and others just zoomed by them and jumped up and got it while the three previous mentioned players just kinda stood there like they were watching Clark Kent in the fucking sky and couldn't notice the ball above their head coming right to them.

As for blocking shots it is a little hard to block shots when you spend half the game on the perimeter because the team switches on picks. (also doesn't help that he gets called for fouls that on the other end are called legit blocks on him please see his hand getting just mauled on a shot attempt and them not calling a thing this game it was pretty hilarious only because it was so different on the other end).

I'm fine with getting on Greg for making dumb fouls (like earlier in the year when he constantly brought his arms down instead of keeping them up) and other various legit things. But he is being shafted on the offensive end when he's wide open and when he's getting good position so we can pass it around for a contested jumper while he's being deliberately hung out to dry on defense by Nate because Nate doesn't "want him to drop back like Shaq did and develop bad habits on defense (because switching is a good habit when done 90% of the game).
 
oldmangrouch said:
A few more "efforts" like tonight, and you have to start asking if this team has quit on Nate.

Normally, I find the attacks on Nate overblown. IMHO, they are largely the result of people having an exagerated sense of how good our roster is. OTOH, if Nate has lost the team - there isn't much you can do except replace him.
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Now that I get. Personally the idea of Nate not understanding defense or not feeding Oden enough doesn't really sit with me . . . but if players aren't responding to Nate, that is a different sitaution that would need to be changed.

I think that is actually Nate's best attribute. So I'm not too worried that is happening. But good point . . . they lacked effort tonght, and maybe some of that is on Nate?
 
The Sebastian Express said:
Is your arguing point really two of the biggest homers on the payroll?
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Not my arguing point. I just watched a game where they had a segment praising Nate and then came on here and saw Nate was getting flamed and pointed it out. I didn't even comment on Nate before that.

You want arguing points . . . how about the fact that Nate is one of the most respected coaches in the league, has won more games every year since coming to Ptd and that somehow posters think the game is so simple they can say Oden needs the ball more down low and Nate is abad coach for not doing it.

Apparently a professional coaching staff doesn't know as much about Oden's need for the ball or the pick and roll defense than a bunch of internet posters.
 
Karl Malone's Elbows said:
Do you think Team U.S.A. has ever won a Gold Medal with a coach on staff that isn't good? Give me a straight up answer.
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People use this argument all the time, but Nate was one of four coaches, and the other coaches are clearly better than Nate. Plus, Team USA > Team (Insert random country) based on talent alone so all the coaches have to do is be slightly organized.
 
B-Roy said:
Do you think Nate is a good coach? Give me a straight up answer.
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Karl Malone's Elbows said:
Do you think Nate is not a good coach? Give me a straight up answer.
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Karl Malone's Elbows said:
Do you think Team U.S.A. has ever won a Gold Medal with a coach on staff that isn't good? Give me a straight up answer.
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B-Roy said:
People use this argument all the time, but Nate was one of four coaches, and the other coaches are clearly better than Nate. Plus, Team USA > Team (Insert random country) based on talent alone so all the coaches have to do is be slightly organized.
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Karl Malone's Elbows said:
Give me a straight up answer.
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:confused:
 
Has anyone here had a job where they travelled all the time? I don't mean a week a year for training in Vegas.

I mean work a day, travel to a new state, work another 2 days, travel to another state, work another 2 days, fly home for the weekend, travel to another state, work a day, travel.....

It's extremely difficult to not get jet-lag or fatigue, or be distracted because your kid is sick at home and you're worried about him, or get a bit ill from the road food...

I don't think we have ANY coasters on this team.

Sometimes all you have just isn't enough.
 
Karl Malone's Elbows said:
:confused:
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All you did was answer my question with another question. At least I gave you an answer, even if it wasn't as straight up as you would have liked. Stop being such a hypocrite.

And if you want answers, No, Nate is not a good coach, and Yes, team USA could win with a crappy coaching squad.
 
it's_GO_time said:
Not my arguing point. I just watched a game where they had a segment praising Nate and then came on here and saw Nate was getting flamed and pointed it out. I didn't even comment on Nate before that.

You want arguing points . . . how about the fact that Nate is one of the most respected coaches in the league, has won more games every year since coming to Ptd and that somehow posters think the game is so simple they can say Oden needs the ball more down low and Nate is abad coach for not doing it.

Apparently a professional coaching staff doesn't know as much about Oden's need for the ball or the pick and roll defense than a bunch of internet posters.
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Well that's not entirely true. Nate took over a team that had won 27 games the previous year and they won 21 games the next year - coincidentally Nate did improve the next year to 32 wins after obtaining Brandon Roy who has a really great ability to ISO and Nate does enjoy the ISO play. So not EVERY year.

Oden does need the ball down more and it is pretty simple. I mean watch the game. Greg coming off of major knee surgery and as a rookie is still so much stronger than most of the big men in the league that the other team has to have a guard sag onto him. That is a huge advantage to us that we do not take nearly enough. I mean that only opens up the rest of our roster (a roster that is primarily jump shooters outside of one or two other players) for pretty open and uncontested looks - especially considering Greg is an able and willing passer. He is also pretty good at drawing fouls (minus the times when he can get hit directly on the hand with no ball contact at all and not get a whistle for some reason but that's been happening to Roy a lot lately too so who knows) which puts the other team at an even greater disadvantage.

As for the defense comment? You're right, we are just a bunch of internet posters. However, the internet is a great place that leads you to facts and absolutes such as: In the nine years Nate has coached he has never had a team that has finished above 17th in defensive rating.

I guess those ratings don't know much either. Probably just the players not listening to what Nate is teaching - but that probably doesn't speak well of Nate either.
 
PapaG said:
Is it too much to ask a physical freak like Oden to crash the offensive boards, protect the rim, and hustle?

It's gone from "Greg is going to be a defender and a rebounder" to "he doesn't get enough shots, so it's everybody else's fault".

He wasn't drafted for his offense. Durant could have obviously handled that role.
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*Big heavy sigh*

I've been pretty easy on Greg most of the season because i figured the extra gear wasn't there because his knee and and conditioning weren't at 100% (and they still might not be) but I sometimes wonder what's going on in his head ... I get it that he's not a real emotional guy, but his body language is just plain bad, he just seems to shrink from rather than embrace challenges.

Bayless has been inconsistent too, but when he's fucking up, you can tell it motivates him rather than deflating him. I'm not ready to hit the panic button or anything, but I'm starting to wonder if there is any killer instinct in him -- does he have it in him to really dig in and get nasty? I don't know the answer, but it sure would be nice to see just a little bit of fire to let us (and his teammates especially!) know that there is indeed a monster lurking under that sad-sack exterior.
 
The Sebastian Express said:
Well that's not entirely true. Nate took over a team that had won 27 games the previous year and they won 21 games the next year - coincidentally Nate did improve the next year to 32 wins after obtaining Brandon Roy who has a really great ability to ISO and Nate does enjoy the ISO play. So not EVERY year.

Oden does need the ball down more and it is pretty simple. I mean watch the game. Greg coming off of major knee surgery and as a rookie is still so much stronger than most of the big men in the league that the other team has to have a guard sag onto him. That is a huge advantage to us that we do not take nearly enough. I mean that only opens up the rest of our roster (a roster that is primarily jump shooters outside of one or two other players) for pretty open and uncontested looks - especially considering Greg is an able and willing passer. He is also pretty good at drawing fouls (minus the times when he can get hit directly on the hand with no ball contact at all and not get a whistle for some reason but that's been happening to Roy a lot lately too so who knows) which puts the other team at an even greater disadvantage.

As for the defense comment? You're right, we are just a bunch of internet posters. However, the internet is a great place that leads you to facts and absolutes such as: In the nine years Nate has coached he has never had a team that has finished above 17th in defensive rating.

I guess those ratings don't know much either. Probably just the players not listening to what Nate is teaching - but that probably doesn't speak well of Nate either.
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Well I didn't want to get into this because it is this on going debate/bashing of Nate that won't ever stop no matter what either one of us posts.

BTW-I do watch the games and just disagree about how easy it is to get him the ball while trying to keep the offense flowing and trying to win the game. And if it so simple to you, Blazer should hire you tomorrow. Because apparently a staff of coaches who will watch the game tapes multiple times and constantly rewind and break the game down play by play can't see what is so simple to you.

Personally, I don't think Oden is good at establishing post position, doesen't understand the offense well, is slow on the pick and roll and makes a lot of mistakes. Yes they should try to get him the ball (when he gets open), but I don't think they should focus their entire offense on that.

As far as the stats, I guess that is a hard stat to argue against. It doesn't pursude me that Nate is a bad defensive coach . . . but I guess once this team matures and continues to play bad defense that I could reconsider.

So who is responsible for coaching decsions . . . the GM? Why aren't people bashing KP for not firing Nate? I don't know if you are calling for Nate's head, but whoever is should be dogging management for not making a change.
 
Nate brings discipline, stability, and focus on the game at hand.

While I prefer a high-flying running game and the creativity that comes from taking chances, these are young guys and I see Nate's approach having a powerful influence on them as they are maturing and gaining confidence faster than young Blazers in the past.

No one on this team doubts that they can compete at the highest level of this league, and that comes from Nate's approach.
 
it's_GO_time said:
Well I didn't want to get into this because it is this on going debate/bashing of Nate that won't ever stop no matter what either one of us posts.

BTW-I do watch the games and just disagree about how easy it is to get him the ball while trying to keep the offense flowing and trying to win the game. And if it so simple to you, Blazer should hire you tomorrow. Because apparently a staff of coaches who will watch the game tapes multiple times and constantly rewind and break the game down play by play can't see what is so simple to you.

Personally, I don't think Oden is good at establishing post position, doesen't understand the offense well, is slow on the pick and roll and makes a lot of mistakes. Yes they should try to get him the ball (when he gets open), but I don't think they should focus their entire offense on that.

As far as the stats, I guess that is a hard stat to argue against. It doesn't pursude me that Nate is a bad defensive coach . . . but I guess once this team matures and continues to play bad defense that I could reconsider.

So who is responsible for coaching decsions . . . the GM? Why aren't people bashing KP for not firing Nate? I don't know if you are calling for Nate's head, but whoever is should be dogging management for not making a change.
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I don't bash KP for not firing Nate right now because unfortunately the moment Greg went down last year it bought Nate this year no matter what. KP can't fire him without giving him a full year with Greg. If Nate is still here next year and no improvement has been made on his end in terms of offensive and defensive schemes and his ability to utilize Greg then I will start being upset that KP has not made a coaching move.

Here's the thing: I'm not asking the entire offense to be focused on Greg. If my bitching comes across like that then I apologize. I just want Greg to get more than the five or so touches he's getting a game. This is inexcusable in my opinion because it helps him get in rhythm, it helps the team get open jump shots, and it gets the other team into foul trouble instead of the other way around. I don't think it stops the flow of our offense at all because our offense right now is basically the Roy ISO (or the Travis IS) and the pick and pop. These are our two plays. Oh, we do have a third consistent play as of late: The broken down oh my god what is going on THE SHOT CLOCK IS RUNNING OUT QUICK THROW IT UP play but that seems to be pretty ineffective to be honest.

I'm not sure how that statistic couldn't persuade you that Nate is a bad defensive coach - considering he's coached for nine years and had several different kinds of players. Either he's just had a bad run with players which is pretty coincidental, he can't properly convey his message to the players where they can implement it on the court - which doesn't say much favorable about him, or he's just got bad defensive schemes. Considering he switched us to a zone when Durant (shooting 42% from three this year) was in the game for some apparent reason..
 
Follow up to B-Roy's question:

Do you think Nate is a good coach for this team NOW?

I don't feel so. Nate was a perfect selection for a squad that was lacking discipline and structure. He was ideal for a young team that was just starting to learn the pro game, but I think we're past that stage now. We need someone who can push us over the top.
 
yuyuza1 said:
Follow up to B-Roy's question:

Do you think Nate is a good coach for this team NOW?

I don't feel so. Nate was a perfect selection for a squad that was lacking discipline and structure. He was ideal for a young team that was just starting to learn the pro game, but I think we're past that stage now. We need someone who can push us over the top.
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This young team still lacks discipline and structure on defense and is younger this year than last in terms of NBA experience in the rotation. :ohno:
 
Maris made some good points about jet lag and travel, and the Blazers certainly looked tired out there against OKC.
Keeping in mind the Blazers have undergone a ludicrous opening schedule, is it just me or do they quite often look less spritely than other teams? Maybe the nutritionist for the Blazers needs to be investigated?

With the youth that the Blazers have there also comes some inexperience. Brandon needs to learn to stop his 'Yelp' everytime he thinks he is fouled. I fell it is negating his "allstar calls". It's really not earning him any extra admirers, especially amongst the refs.
Even worse is that, Brandon being the leader, the other players look up to him and invariably imitate him (see: yelping, blowing on hands etc). Travis and LMA "striking a pose" after a rebound is another trait that needs to go. Focus more on pushing the ball to the point than on your frickin image guys - play some BBall - your not in LA. Watch any other team and they outlet the ball with much greater speed and it usually creates better opportunities. This may just be an undesirable trait of Nates' slow-ball tempo though.

Nate is an excellent mentor and professional, but I just don't think his style is the right fit for our young team (slow paced & atrocious defense, offensive plays).

Whether Nate is replaced, or not, we''ll have our answer in a season or two. I guess time will tell. . .
 
yuyuza1 said:
Follow up to B-Roy's question:

Do you think Nate is a good coach for this team NOW?

I don't feel so. Nate was a perfect selection for a squad that was lacking discipline and structure. He was ideal for a young team that was just starting to learn the pro game, but I think we're past that stage now.
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No, that's where we're at, a young team that is just starting to learn the pro game.
 
PapaG said:
This young team still lacks discipline and structure on defense and is younger this year than last in terms of NBA experience in the rotation. :ohno:
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I meant discipline and structure in terms of work ethic and approach to the game. Nate has instilled that already into most of our players. He was a good hire for a team that had no direction.

Not anymore.

And the youth excuse is getting overblown. We have one of the deepest and most talented rosters in the league. Although it's unconventional for young teams to play well, we're an exception for one reason... Roy.
 
yuyuza1 said:
I meant discipline and structure in terms of work ethic and approach to the game. Nate has instilled that already into most of our players. He was a good hire for a team that had no direction.

Not anymore.

And the youth excuse is getting overblown. We have one of the deepest and most talented rosters in the league. Although it's unconventional for young teams to play well, we're an exception for one reason... Roy.
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One starter refuses to show up at times. He's young and undisciplined. Care to guess who?
 
Great game thread guys! I'm glad I missed the game. And I'm glad I read the thread. Very entertaining.

:cheers:
 
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