Blazers Just Won a "Close Game"

[MickZagger]

Your comment reminded me how much I enjoyed the CHI vs. IND series last April. I grew up in Indiana, but close to Chicago. I grew up a Bulls fan, but have also followed the Pacers over the years. So, I had a personal interest in the series. In spite of the Bulls winning 4-1, the first four games of that series were all very close and could have gone either way.

But the thing that stood out to me was the post game intereviews of both coaches. They are both, very obviously, tremendous basketball minds. Their comments were very insightful and candid. After two decades of Phil Jackson's self-serving, condescending quotes and blatant lobbying for even more preferential treatment of his players by the officials, it was very refreshing to hear two knowledgeable coaches actually talking about basketball.

BNM

I agree. You won't find a bigger Thibedeau fan than me. I think he deserves coach of the year with the way his team is still dominating without the MVP candidate. As soon as he came to the Bulls they were instantly one of the top defensive teams in the league.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I agree. You won't find a bigger Thibedeau fan than me. I think he deserves coach of the year with the way his team is still dominating without the MVP candidate. As soon as he came to the Bulls they were instantly one of the top defensive teams in the league.

Yep, and last season they had the best record in the league in spite of Boozer missing 23 games and Noah missing 34. They have had the best record in the league over the last two seasons in spite of significant injuries to key players.

I've also been very impressed with what Vogel has gotten out of his young roster, both last season and this.

BNM

 

[Nikolokolus]

I agree. You won't find a bigger Thibedeau fan than me. I think he deserves coach of the year with the way his team is still dominating without the MVP candidate. As soon as he came to the Bulls they were instantly one of the top defensive teams in the league.

Think of how much better they would be if they switched on all pick and rolls?

 

[PapaG]

Of course many in here are fans. Some maybe more negative or vocal than others. In the end, we all want something we can be proud of. Last night was a game to be proud of. A few others like the OKC games, Lakers, etc. My problem is the consistency and being able to win close games. We aren't going anywhere unless we start winning on the road. At least a .500 team. I want a title! Nate hasn't been able to light a fire under this team's ass so far this season. Maybe with Aldridge going down will. We need Felton, Matthews, Wallace on the road and Crawford to be more productive. We need them to be good in order for us to succeed.

This team, with this roster, wouldn't win a title if James Naismith, John Wooden, and Red Auerbach all came down from Heaven and took over the team in a colloborative effort.

 

[PapaG]

Disingenuous much? Please stop with the transparent attempt at revisionist history. You spent the entire two seasons Miller was here bashing him and trashing him at every turn. And continue to do so. You have compared him unfavorably to Felton in several threads this season, based entirely on your own negatively biased opinion, even when the stats show otherwise.

BNM

Untrue, and there you go again making up your own windmills at which to tilt. I certainly criticized him, but by last spring, I completely stopped doing so and embraced his strengths, while ignoring his obvious weaknesses. It was actually fun, and I've pretty much been the same way about all the players since then.

 

[PapaG]

Frank Vogel wouldn't have made the playoffs last year if Indiana was in the Western Conference, and would struggle to do so this year.

His team was 37-45 last year, yet are playing well this year. By well, I mean better than expected.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Untrue, and there you go again making up your own windmills at which to tilt.

Right, you were secretly Andre Miller's biggest fan. Sure you were PapaG, sure you were...

I'm not going to bother posting links to all the threads where you bashed Miller. I don't have that much free time. No one has that much free time.

BNM

 

[PapaG]

Right, you were secretly Andre Miller's biggest fan. Sure you were PapaG, sure you were...

I'm not going to bother posting links to all the threads where you bashed Miller. I don't have that much free time. No one has that much free time.

BNM

I don't deny bashing him. I also didn't do it for two entire seasons, as you claim I did. Meanwhile, you've been bitching about Nate for how long now?

At some point last season, I decided to just sit back and enjoy the ride.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Frank Vogel wouldn't have made the playoffs last year if Indiana was in the Western Conference, and would struggle to do so this year.

His team was 37-45 last year, yet are playing well this year. By well, I mean better than expected.

Hello, time to buy a clue. Do you even follow the NBA?

The Pacers were 20-18 last season under Vogel, after starting 17-27 under Jim O'Brien.

I'd say Vogel has done pretty damn well considering the trainwreck he inherited.

BNM

 

[PapaG]

Hello, time to buy a clue. Do you even follow the NBA?

The Pacers were 20-18 last season under Vogel, after starting 17-27 under Jim O'Brien.

I'd say Vogel has done pretty damn well considering the trainwreck he inherited.

BNM

I like him too, but 20-18 would have people calling for the coaches head here. Oh wait, that's already the case. I do like what Indiana's doing, though. Bird brought in KP, there is stability within their organization, and their owner doesn't seem to have the emotional age of a 13 year-old.

On a side note, would it kill you to stop posting "Do you follow the NBA?" to every poster who doesn't agree with you 100%? If the idea is legitimate discourse, mocking fellow posters who obviously follow the NBA isn't a great approach. I was wrong on Vogel's record last season. You corrected me, which I appreciate.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I don't deny bashing him. I also didn't two it for two entire seasons, as you claim I did. Meanwhile, you've been bitching about Nate for how long now?

At some point last season, I decided to just sit back and enjoy the ride.

Bullshit. You STILL bash Miller every chance you get. Denying it makes you a liar.

I used to be a big Nate supporter, I started to have my doubts about two years ago when we started to piss away games we should have won (8 or 9 point leads with ~3 minutes left, at home, against teams with worse records). I started to see a pattern of unimaginative, easily defended, ineffective play calling (all ISOs, all the time) with the game on the line that has only gotten worse over time.

But, I really didn't start to want Nate gone until the Phoenix series when he completaly failed to make ANY adjustment when Alvin Gentry put Steve Nash on Batum in game 2 of that series. With the WORST defender in the series guarding a much taller, more athletic player, Batum's scoring and FGAs both declined dramatically compared to game 1 when he was being guarded by Grant Hill. Gentry made an adjustment after one game. Nate had 5 games to counter, and didn't. With 6 months to think about it, Nate FINALLY made the Suns pay for trying to hide Nash's poor defense. In the opening game the following season, Nate FINALLY had Batum post up Nash. Batum destroyed him and the Blazers blew the Suns out.

BNM

 

[Ghost Pepper]

PTLDPLATYPUS,

Good crap man! I've stopped watching the Blazers almost completely because of the shit ownership who sticks it to the loyal fans here and doesn't care enough about this team to even get a GM while shot calling this same team out of Seattle: to a coach who couldn't find his own ass with both hands and a spot light!

The ones that I have watched Ptown has been CRUSHED on the boards both sides, unable to do a simple 3 on 1 break, an offense no one can figure out yet AGAIN, and if you're hanging your hat on McMuffin grooming Ridnour and Lewis I'd simple say how relevant are those guys today to a championship team? Hmmm...

As for your lack of ACC info since you clearly are not from there.... Nate and Coach K have been doing summer camps for kids on tobacco road together long before Coach K or McMuffin ever got the nod for the Olympics, I know, my brother and sister both played in them... Further they both have ties with NIKE and Uncle Phil here so ya might want to factor that in before asking why Dawkins isn't sitting on the bench next to coach K at the Olympics?

If you're satisfied with McMuffin great! To each his or her own... You are exactly the kind of fan PA wants... one the will show up and cheer for a inferior product while he strokes you for season tickets and 10 dollar beers. Geez PA and Sterling seemed to have switched roles and the fans haven't figured it out yet!
That's what I'm amazed at!

Nate is a 500 coach for a owner who's comfy with par, while waiting to get out!

It doesn't matter if you think I'm right or wrong.... The proof is in Nate's last 5 years and what he's not accomplished as a coach? This team wont see a championship till PA is long gone, and Nate will never lead them out of the second round if he can get them there..... So to get excited over this poorly run franchise is a waste of everyone's time!

I'm a Duck, we have a well run organization that's proud to rep Oregon! Can't say the same for Mr. Sonic and the Seachickens owner! Great teams are well run from the top down. Now look at the Blazers, is there really a question anymore?

If you guys are content with one and done, continue to banter, but I'll bet it'll be the same arguements next year because they've been the same arguements for the last five years on this board or fanhome or wherever, and nothing has changed except this team has lost all of its foundations pieces except for LA, who I bet now wishes he hadn't signed a new contract here!

A coach and an owner need to identify with their players and I sense a real disconnect between both and that's showing on the court. You wonder why top free agents don't come here? Look who's running the show?


Laters.....

 

[RoyToy]

Bullshit. You STILL bash Miller every chance you get. Denying it makes you a liar.

I used to be a big Nate supporter, I started to have my doubts about two years ago when we started to piss away games we should have won (8 or 9 point leads with ~3 minutes left, at home, against teams with worse records). I started to see a pattern of unimaginative, easily defended, ineffective play calling (all ISOs, all the time) with the game on the line that has only gotten worse over time.

But, I really didn't start to want Nate gone until the Phoenix series when he completaly failed to make ANY adjustment when Alvin Gentry put Steve Nash on Batum in game 2 of that series. With the WORST defender in the series guarding a much taller, more athletic player, Batum's scoring and FGAs both declined dramatically compared to game 1 when he was being guarded by Grant Hill. Gentry made an adjustment after one game. Nate had 5 games to counter, and didn't. With 6 months to think about it, Nate FINALLY made the Suns pay for trying to hide Nash's poor defense. In the opening game the following season, Nate FINALLY had Batum post up Nash. Batum destroyed him and the Blazers blew the Suns out.

BNM

Batum's shoulder was killing him. Could reportedly barely lift it over his head vs Phoenix.

And he had trouble in the post vs Ellis last night. Let's not pretend he's polished in the post game. He still looks very robotic.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I like him too, but 20-18 would have people calling for the coaches head here.

Not if the team started 17-27. Taking a team that was 10 games under .500 and leading them to the playoffs never got ANY coach fired.

On a side note, would it kill you to stop posting "Do you follow the NBA?" to every poster who doesn't agree with you 100%?

I only use it when someone makes a stament that's so incredibly wrong I honestly wonder if they do follow the NBA. Anyone who watched the NBA last season KNOWS Vogel completely turned around the Pacers' season. It was one of the bigger stories of the year.

BNM

 

[PapaG]

I only use it when someone makes a stament that's so incredibly wrong I honestly wonder if they do follow the NBA. Anyone who watched the NBA last season KNOWS Vogel completely turned around the Pacers' season. It was one of the bigger stories of the year.

BNM

Nah, you post it to get a reaction. The Pacers were never 'one of the bigger stories' of last year, either. You follow the Pacers. It was a big deal to you. A 37-45 team in the Eastern Conference was never one of the stories of the year. A team that went from 10 games under .500 to 8 games under .500 with a new coach isn't a big story.

Anthony and Stoudemire going to NYC. Big story.
Jerry Sloan retiring/Deron Williams to NJ. Big story.
The Big Three in Miami. Big story.
Derrick Rose becoming a superstar. Big story.

The Pacers were a big story ... to Pacer fans, I suppose.

 

[PapaG]

Bullshit. You STILL bash Miller every chance you get. Denying it makes you a liar.

I used to be a big Nate supporter, I started to have my doubts about two years ago when we started to piss away games we should have won (8 or 9 point leads with ~3 minutes left, at home, against teams with worse records). I started to see a pattern of unimaginative, easily defended, ineffective play calling (all ISOs, all the time) with the game on the line that has only gotten worse over time.

But, I really didn't start to want Nate gone until the Phoenix series when he completaly failed to make ANY adjustment when Alvin Gentry put Steve Nash on Batum in game 2 of that series. With the WORST defender in the series guarding a much taller, more athletic player, Batum's scoring and FGAs both declined dramatically compared to game 1 when he was being guarded by Grant Hill. Gentry made an adjustment after one game. Nate had 5 games to counter, and didn't. With 6 months to think about it, Nate FINALLY made the Suns pay for trying to hide Nash's poor defense. In the opening game the following season, Nate FINALLY had Batum post up Nash. Batum destroyed him and the Blazers blew the Suns out.

BNM

False, but whatever.

Batum was having trouble with his shoulder again in the PHX series.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Batum's shoulder was killing him. Could reportedly barely lift it over his head vs Phoenix.

And he had trouble in the post vs Ellis last night. Let's not pretend he's polished in the post game. He still looks very robotic.

Yet he still scored 18 points on 7-13 shooting when Grant Hill was guarding him.

With Nash on him, he would not have required a polished post game to score effectively or efficiently. He could have simply caught the ball, turned and shot over the much smaller Nash. Batum has always had a high, quick release on his jump shot. Against Nash, he would not have needed anything like an up and under or drop step. Just square up and shoot.

Nate said he thought about it, but didn't have the confidence in Nic to try it. Why not at least try it and see how the kid responds. I guess that was the most frustrating part for me. When you have a mismatch, why automatically assume it's going to fail? Why not at least try it a couple times and see if it works. If you try it and it doesn't work, try something else, but at least try it.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Nah, you post it to get a reaction. The Pacers were never 'one of the bigger stories' of last year, either. You follow the Pacers. It was a big deal to you. A 37-45 team in the Eastern Conference was never one of the stories of the year.

Anthony and Stoudemire going to NYC. Big story.
Jerry Sloan retiring/Deron Williams to NJ. Big story.
The Big Three in Miami. Big story.
Derrick Rose becoming a superstar. Big story.

The Pacers were a big story ... to Pacer fans, I suppose.

The Pacers going from 17-27 to 20-18 was a big story. Maybe you weren't paying attention, but others were. They also gave the Bulls a surprisingly competitive first round series. Maybe you missed that, too. Did you watch the Bulls/Pacers series? It was a very entertaining series. The Bulls obviously had more talent, but the Pacers played them extremeley tough for the first four games. Both teams were very well coached and it was a fun series to watch.

BNM

 

[RoyToy]

Yet he still scored 18 points on 7-13 shooting when Grant Hill was guarding him.

And that was before he went down with a hurt shoulder in that series. He hurt it at the end of game 2 and was never the same.

 

[PapaG]

The Pacers going from 17-27 to 20-18 was a big story. Maybe you weren't paying attention, but others were. They also gave the Bulls a surprisingly competitive first round series. Maybe you missed that, too. Did you watch the Bulls/Pacers series? It was a very entertaining series. The Bulls obviously had more talent, but the Pacers played them extremeley tough for the first four games. Both teams were very well coached and it was a fun series to watch.

BNM

You said "one of the bigger stories of the year". They lost 4-1 in the first round of the playoffs. They were an afterthought. Although if you check the playoff thread from last year, you'll see that I posted frequently about that series.

Here is SI's list of the biggest stories of 2011 in the NBA.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ian_thomsen/12/25/nba.top.stories.2011/index.html

Do you watch the NBA? Calling the Pacers "one of the bigger stories of the year" is silly, isn't it?

 

[PapaG]

Yet he still scored 18 points on 7-13 shooting when Grant Hill was guarding him.

With Nash on him, he would not have required a polished post game to score effectively or efficiently. He could have simply caught the ball, turned and shot over the much smaller Nash. Batum has always had a high, quick release on his jump shot. Against Nash, he would not have needed anything like an up and under or drop step. Just square up and shoot.

Nate said he thought about it, but didn't have the confidence in Nic to try it. Why not at least try it and see how the kid responds. I guess that was the most frustrating part for me. When you have a mismatch, why automatically assume it's going to fail? Why not at least try it a couple times and see if it works. If you try it and it doesn't work, try something else, but at least try it.

BNM

A pretty flimsy reason to turn on Nate, considering Batum's health. Here we are, two years later, and you're still on a rampage.

 

[Boob-No-More]

A pretty flimsy reason to turn on Nate, considering Batum's health. Here we are, two years later, and you're still on a rampage.

I was never "on a rampage". Nice hyperbole.

But yes, here we are two years later and Batum is averaging 26 MPG, has been under utilized most of the season, and the Blazers struggle more than ever to close out games. Thanks to last night, they are now 2-9 in close games. Color me unimpressed.

Two years and still the same old shit. Maybe it is time to go "on a rampage".

BNM

 

[PapaG]

I was never "on a rampage". Nice hyperbole.
But yes, here we are two years later and Batum is averaging 26 MPG, has been under utilized most of the season, and the Blazers struggle more than ever to close out games. Thanks to last night, they are now 2-9 in close games. Color me unimpressed.

Two years and still the same old shit. Maybe it is time to go "on a rampage".

BNM

You realize the irony, don't you?

As for Nic being underutilized, he's having a career season this year, although his minutes have gone down. Maybe he's being perfectly utilized, and has finally found his niche in the NBA?

 

[Boob-No-More]

Do you watch the NBA? Calling the Pacers "one of the bigger stories of the year" is silly, isn't it?

You know, I was all set to start cutting you some slack and then you reminded me why I shouldn't. Still the same old insufferable ass who likes to argue just to argue. Whaetever. I happen to think taking a team from 17-27 and well out of the playoffs and completely turning their season around is a significant achievement for a rookie head coach (or ANY head coach). You disagree, mostly because you forgot Vogel inherited a 17-27 trainwreck and are now desparately trying to save face. Again, whatever.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

You realize the irony, don't you?

As for Nic being underutilized, he's having a career season this year, although his minutes have gone down. Maybe he's being perfectly utilized, and has finally found his niche in the NBA?

Or maybe if his coach pulls his head out of his ass and starts playing his second best player more minutes the team would win more games. That is the goal, isn't it?

BNM

 

[PapaG]

You know, I was all set to start cutting you some slack and then you reminded me why I shouldn't. Still the same old insufferable ass who likes to argue just to argue. Whaetever. I happen to think taking a team from 17-27 and well out of the playoffs and completely turning their season around is a significant achievement for a rookie head coach (or ANY head coach). You disagree, mostly because you forgot Vogel inherited a 17-27 trainwreck and are now desparately trying to save face. Again, whatever.

BNM

I'm not trying to save face. I admitted I was wrong about Vogel's record last season. I actually went to the point where hardly anybody 'message board expert' does, and admitted I was wrong. I really do appreciate your knowledge of the Pacers. That said, the "do you follow the NBA" stuff, and then claiming the Pacers were one of the bigger stories of the NBA season, seems to be defensive on your part.

I know you have great knowledge of the NBA. It's obvious in your posts. I guess I don't see why you try to belittle those who don't always agree with you.

I do watch the NBA, fwiw. A. Lot.

 

[PapaG]

Or maybe if his coach pulls his head out of his ass and starts playing his second best player more minutes the team would win more games. That is the goal, isn't it?

BNM

That's already happening, though. The past 3 games Nic has played 41/42/36 minutes, respectively.

Don't forget he had an MRI on his knee just 2 weeks ago. He seems to be healthy now, and he's playing big minutes. Shouldn't you be applauding Nate for giving him these minutes?

How many more minutes do you want Nic to play? 36 is a lot for most NBA players, and Nic's above that over the past three games. I hope he has some legs left for tonight, actually.

 

[Boob-No-More]

That's already happening, though. The past 3 games Nic has played 41/42/36 minutes, respectively.

Don't forget he had an MRI on his knee just 2 weeks ago. He seems to be healthy now, and he's playing big minutes. Shouldn't you be applauding Nate for giving him these minutes?

How many more minutes do you want Nic to play? 36 is a lot for most NBA players, and Nic's above that over the past three games. I hope he has some legs left for tonight, actually.

Nate's hand was forced by the Aldridge injury in 2 of those 3 games. He's playing Wallace more at the 4 and Batum at the 3. I want to see Batum continue to play 36MPG after Aldridge comes back. Aldridge plays 36.2 MPG, Wallace 35.9 MPG. Why not play Batum similar minutes? Prior to the last three games, Batum was averagfing less than 26 MPG. Why?

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

I'm not trying to save face. I admitted I was wrong about Vogel's record last season. I actually went to the point where hardly anybody 'message board expert' does, and admitted I was wrong. I really do appreciate your knowledge of the Pacers. That said, the "do you follow the NBA" stuff, and then claiming the Pacers were one of the bigger stories of the NBA season, seems to be defensive on your part.

I know you have great knowledge of the NBA. It's obvious in your posts. I guess I don't see why you try to belittle those who don't always agree with you.

I do watch the NBA, fwiw. A. Lot.

OK, truce.

BNM

 

[MickZagger]

That's already happening, though. The past 3 games Nic has played 41/42/36 minutes, respectively.

Don't forget he had an MRI on his knee just 2 weeks ago. He seems to be healthy now, and he's playing big minutes. Shouldn't you be applauding Nate for giving him these minutes?

How many more minutes do you want Nic to play? 36 is a lot for most NBA players, and Nic's above that over the past three games. I hope he has some legs left for tonight, actually.

It took over 1/3rd through the season, almost .500 ball and media pundits questioning him about it before he decided to cave in and give Nic a little extra time. Shouldn't take most coaches that long to figure out who their 2nd best player is.