Blazers looking at Oberto

[BGrantFan]

Wasn't he injured for most of last year (much like Howard was before he came here last season)? And he clearly did not care much for playing in Washington. I don't know if he's washed up, but I'd take the Oberto of 07-09 to be our third string center. And citing PER and per 36 stats for a guy who played such sporadic minutes ( http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3988/gamelog) seems awfully silly to me.

Citing "intangibles" seems rather silly to me.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Hmm

Roy
Aldridge
Oden
Batum
Miller
Matthews
Bayless
Babbitt
Cunningham
Pendergraph
Przybilla
Camby
Johnson
Williams
Fernandez

That's 15 right there, so waiving Mills still leaves over. Who is the odd guy out, Rudy or Jeff?

 

[BGrantFan]

I will not rise to such blatant trolling.

Good God. Toughen up.

 

[illmatic99]

Hmm

Roy
Aldridge
Oden
Batum
Miller
Matthews
Bayless
Babbitt
Cunningham
Pendergraph
Przybilla
Camby
Johnson
Williams
Fernandez

That's 15 right there, so waiving Mills still leaves over. Who is the odd guy out, Rudy or Jeff?

Gotta be Pendy, right?

I don't understand the details of the injury exception. Would it work in this case?

 

[RR7]

I would assume if there is no trade lined up to clear a spot, cutting Pendergraph makes the most sense. Limited bird rights aren't going to matter with him. Just be nice and allow him to rehab and recover here, or with our staff, if he chooses.

 

[Minstrel]

I don't know if he's washed up, but I'd take the Oberto of 07-09 to be our third string center.

Sure, assuming last year was an outlier and not the start (or completion) of a collapse, I would too. I'd just prefer Dampier, because he (or Oberto) may well be the second-string center for a while and if the worst happened (like Camby getting injured) then he could even be our starter.

While that is true of any third-stringer, it's more of an issue when all our centers have serious injury risk. We're looking for someone to fill the Juwan Howard spot, and Howard was playing big minutes for Portland last season at times.

And yes, PER doesn't measure intangibles. I really don't think there's an "intangibles" edge that really matters here, but that's subjective enough not to be worth arguing over.

 

[MickZagger]

Sure, Fabio isn't a bad little signing. As long as he knows his role with the team is keeping the end of the bench warm.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I would assume if there is no trade lined up to clear a spot, cutting Pendergraph makes the most sense. Limited bird rights aren't going to matter with him. Just be nice and allow him to rehab and recover here, or with our staff, if he chooses.

If they wanted to be nice about it, they would let him rehad and recover with the Suns staff.

 

[Natebishop3]

Sure, Fabio isn't a bad little signing. As long as he knows his role with the team is keeping the end of the bench warm.

 

[BBert]

Alright who is going to be the first one to buy an Oberto jersey when he signs?

I'm going to buy some Oberto beef jerkey. Much more satisfying.

 

[BBert]

How many PER points does a properly set screen register? How many PER does blocking out your man so another guy can get the rebound register? How many PER points does effecting a shot but not blocking it register? PER does not tell the whole story. Yet if Oberto did those things why he was in with a 2nd unit, he would be doing what he needed to succeed on the team, along with the stats that do register in the PER stat tracking.

These are some of the reasons I like Oberto over Dampier. Also, Oberto is more mobile, more of a hustle player, has a long history of being a complimentary/glue type player, and is, I suspect, more likely to accept his role on the team. I think this is good news.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I don't think we need to compare PER for guys that will not get more than 10mpg. We should rather look at experience, fit, and skills, and Oberto has the edge in that context.

10 minutes with a broken down player is still 10 minutes of marginal production no matter the experience or "skills" they possess. Meh, whatever, I guess he's an upgrade over Steven Hill or Raymond Sykes (marginal players with almost no experience or definable NBA skill).

 

[LittleAlex]

Sure, assuming last year was an outlier and not the start (or completion) of a collapse, I would too. I'd just prefer Dampier, because he (or Oberto) may well be the second-string center for a while and if the worst happened (like Camby getting injured) then he could even be our starter.

While that is true of any third-stringer, it's more of an issue when all our centers have serious injury risk. We're looking for someone to fill the Juwan Howard spot, and Howard was playing big minutes for Portland last season at times.

And yes, PER doesn't measure intangibles. I really don't think there's an "intangibles" edge that really matters here, but that's subjective enough not to be worth arguing over.

The intangibles are what actually make the case for Oberto so I am pretty sure you can't just ignore them.

At what point in Dampier's career was he known as a team guy who did all the little things you need a bench player to do in their limited time on the floor?

Besides which, if either of these guys get signed and end up playing significant minutes Portland is well fucked no matter which one is on the team.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

How many PER points does a properly set screen register? How many PER does blocking out your man so another guy can get the rebound register? How many PER points does effecting a shot but not blocking it register? PER does not tell the whole story. Yet if Oberto did those things why he was in with a 2nd unit, he would be doing what he needed to succeed on the team, along with the stats that do register in the PER stat tracking.

But... but... I'm not supposed to agree with hasoos... Brain... hurting...

 

[BGrantFan]

*deleted*

 

[LOTBfan]

 

[Ed O]

Oberto has been bad the last several years, and he was TERRIBLE last year... what "intangibles" did he bring to a bad Wizards team?

He was waived by the Pistons for salary cap savings, and the best he could do was a sub-$2m deal with Washington last summer. The guy is a stiff who might not even belong in the league.

Compare that to Erick Dampier, who is closer to be a starting-level C than to being out of the NBA... it's not even close.

Ed O.

 

[andalusian]

what "intangibles" did he bring to a bad Wizards team?

He managed to stay out of all the gun fights.

 

[Ed O]

He managed to stay out of all the gun fights.

Haha!

Ed O.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Oberto has been bad the last several years, and he was TERRIBLE last year...

So, just like Juwan Howard before we signed him, right?

Compare that to Erick Dampier, who is closer to be a starting-level C than to being out of the NBA... it's not even close.

What makes you think Dampier wants to come here? I thought I read something somewhere that said Cho had said he knew that Dampier was going elsewhere.

 

[Minstrel]

So, just like Juwan Howard before we signed him, right?

Yes, and Howard continued to be terrible with Portland. That's not a ringing endorsement of Oberto.

 

[THE HCP]

Howards value was as much off the court as on!

 

[Minstrel]

The intangibles are what actually make the case for Oberto so I am pretty sure you can't just ignore them.

I wasn't ignoring the argument, I was saying that I don't perceive there to be a significant difference in intangibles. So I was disagreeing with it.

At what point in Dampier's career was he known as a team guy who did all the little things you need a bench player to do in their limited time on the floor?

Never. Generally the people who are "known for it" aren't very good at anything else. And I'm not a big fan of evaluations by the wisdom of crowds. Fans are swayed by all sorts of things, some valid, some not. The fact that Dampier has massively disappointed based on his draft position has caused the widespread view of him to be that he's worthless, when he actually defends well and rebounds well. It's a common dynamic: once a player fails to live up to expectations, almost all their good points are ignored.

 

[BGrantFan]

But... but... I'm not supposed to agree with hasoos... Brain... hurting...

"Address the post, but not the poster."

- barfo

http://sportstwo.com/posthistory.php?do=compare&p=2444343

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Here are Oberto's stats from the World Championships this Summer.

So he's better than Tyson Chandler but not half as good as Hamed Haddadi...

 

[LittleAlex]

I wasn't ignoring the argument, I was saying that I don't perceive there to be a significant difference in intangibles. So I was disagreeing with it.



Never. Generally the people who are "known for it" aren't very good at anything else. And I'm not a big fan of evaluations by the wisdom of crowds. Fans are swayed by all sorts of things, some valid, some not. The fact that Dampier has massively disappointed based on his draft position has caused the widespread view of him to be that he's worthless, when he actually defends well and rebounds well. It's a common dynamic: once a player fails to live up to expectations, almost all their good points are ignored.

Who said anything about crowds?

I was refering to Greg Popovich's opinion of the guy.

Dampier wouldn't be a good fit here primarily because he is more talented. You only sign that guy if you know for sure at least two of our current three centers won't be able to play significant minutes this season. I don't think Portland knows that yet.

You honestly believe Dampier would be happy sitting on the bench game after game? The last thing Portland needs is more drama in the locker room.

If Dampier is signed to replace Joel, Camby or Greg then great. If Portland is signing an insurance policy guy who is going to sit at the end of the bench, cheer guys and go hard in practice then Dampier is not your man.

 

[Minstrel]

Who said anything about crowds?

I was refering to Greg Popovich's opinion of the guy.

You asked me when Dampier was "known as that kind of guy." I'm assuming Popovich opined on Oberto, not Dampier. Dampier is generally not given credit for much of anything positive, but that doesn't mean he doesn't do any of those things.

And I agree that Dampier probably wouldn't be happy shoved into a deep backup role, but it's not like he's beating away offers. If he comes here, it's eyes wide open and probably because Portland was the most lucrative option. He'll play a lot of minutes early (since Oden is confirmed out for a while at the start of the season and Przybilla is still a question mark, IMO). Later in the season, even if the team's big men are miraculously all healthy...who's going to care if he gripes? I really don't think Dampier has the cache to become a "problem." I may well be wrong on that, I'm certainly not trying to speak authoritatively on whether Dampier could be a locker room problem...but my opinion is that that concern is overblown. As long as no one lies to him in signing him, I don't think anyone (other than him) is going to be too concerned if he plays a lot in the first quarter or first half of the season and then is benched.