Blazers/Memphis conspiracy

[Natebishop3]

I mentioned this in the TMAC thread, but I think it deserves it's own spot.

Though the back channel rumor making the rounds—and it was only a rumor and I really can't imagine even Paul Allen trying that--was the Trailblazers would look favorably on someone having Miles and not playing him and arrange some sort of favorable trade. The Grizzlies and the Trailblazers had some talks this season about Mike Conley going to Portland for Travis Outlaw for Conley to join good buddy Greg Oden, and also help bring Oden out of his shell some. Plus, the Trail Blazers needed a point guard, though Steve Blake has played better than expected. Relations between the Grizzlies and Blazers now are assumed to be poor, and the Memphis Commercial Appeal reported talks with the Bucks about Conley.

This was in the Sam Smith article. Pretty interesting conspiracy theory stuff. If Miles doesn't play tonight, is that a sign?

 

[drexlersdad]

i was thinking the same thing.

miles would throw a godamn fit though.

if they dont play him, i would expect to see some phantom good will coming hiesleys way.

 

[Natebishop3]

i was thinking the same thing.

miles would throw a godamn fit though.

if they dont play him, i would expect to see some phantom good will coming hiesleys way.

Well, he only signed the 10 day, right? He could leave, I guess, if they don't play him in the next 10 days. I would laugh if the email from the Blazers, the 10 day contracts, and the release and re-signing of Miles was all a ruse.

 

[ironcrotch]

"Give us Outlaw or else..." - Chris Wallace

 

[Денг Гордон]

The problem with this conspiracy, is that Portland isn't doing Memphis much of a favor by trading Travis Outlaw for Conley. Change Outlaw to Rudy Fernandez, and then you can have a conspiracy theory.

 

[Natebishop3]

The problem with this conspiracy, is that Portland isn't doing Memphis much of a favor by trading Travis Outlaw for Conley. Change Outlaw to Rudy Fernandez, and then you can have a conspiracy theory.

Who knows what the trade would involve at this point. I think Smith is just speculating what the trade would be, based on the rumors from a month ago.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Threatening business owners to get them to play ball with you???

I know Microsoft are notorious at playing hardball and getting away with it. But they have the product to get away with that. I don't think this kind of tactic would work well in the NBA. If that was Allen's intent, he still managed to piss off owners getting his message out.

I agree with Cavs owner, there has to be a better way.

 

[RR7]

If there was a conspiracy, wouldn't they have just kept him on the roster, and guaranteed his deal for the season, to ensure that nobody else picked him up?

 

[Ed O]

The problem with this conspiracy, is that Portland isn't doing Memphis much of a favor by trading Travis Outlaw for Conley. Change Outlaw to Rudy Fernandez, and then you can have a conspiracy theory.

You did watch the game last night, right?



Ed O.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

You did watch the game last night, right?



Ed O.

Conley didn't play last night . . . but yes his last performance of 0-3 with 4 assists and 2 TO wasn't the a good showing.

Or were you talking about Outlaw's 33 points . . . or maybe his game winning shot in the game before . . .

 

[e_blazer]

The thing I'd like best about such a conspiracy, if it were true, is that Stern and the rest of the league would hate it and would probably be suspiscious, but how would they ever prove intent?

 

[Boob-No-More]

Actually, I had a somewhat similar, but even more devious, thought this morning.

Is Darius a trading chip for Chris Wallace and the Grizzlies to get what they really want?

Sam Smith assumes it's Outlaw that Memphis covets. They have expressed interest in him in the past, but what is it that Memphis cheapskate owner Michael Heisley covets? Easy - CASH. Cash in the form of Raef LaFrantz' HUGE expiring contract - that will be paid mostly by insurance if LaFrentz doesn't play. This is an owner who tasks his GM with making nonsensical trades to save a couple hundred thousand dollars here and there. Think what he'd do to save $10 million dollars (or more, possibly much more). What if Heisley could swap a couple of big contracts - Darko and Marko for example for Raef's expiring deal - and still get Outlaw in the process. Darko's getting paid $7 million this year and $7.5 million next year. Marko Jaric is getting $6.575, $7 and $7.625 over this season and the next two.

So, something like this:

Raef LaFrentz + Travis Outlaw for Darko Milicic + Marko Jaric + Mike Conley

This works under the CBA, saves Memphis over $30 million over the next two plus years (all of Darko's and Marko's salaries, plus insurance pays LaFrentz). It's basically a super sized version of the long rumored Outlaw for Conley swap. Of course other ancillery players and draft picks could also be included, but that's the simplest scenario that gets the Grizz a player they supposedly want, plus saves Michael Heisley a whole shitload of cash - the real goal here.

So, why dick around with Miles? Heisely is desparate for cash (aka Raef LaFrentz' expiring, insurance paid contract). With Steve Blake having a career year and Jerryd Bayless starting to show potential as Brandon Roy's backcourt running mate for the next decade, suddenly the Blazers don't have a need for Mike Conley - or anyone else on the Memphis roster not named Gay or Mayo. Other supposedly available players (Gerald Wallace, Caron Butler, etc.) are a MUCH more appealling use of the LaFentz sweepstakes than anything Memphis would be willing to part with. So, naturally the Blazers have turned their attention elsewhere.

Enter the cap space killing, luxury tax inducing, medically retired Darius Miles. If the Grizz thought they could use him as a pawn to get what they really want (Raef's cash cow of a contract, and oh yeah, Travis Outlaw as a nice throw in), why wouldn't they do it? Miles is cheap (A Heisley special) and the risk is low. What they've been doing makes perfect sense. The closer they get Miles to that 10th game, the more leverage they have against Portland. Is it enough to get what they want, or will Portland say (or email) screw you and send LaFrentz and an armored car full of cash elsehwere? In which case Memphis keeps Miles just long enough (10 day contract) to screw Portland and then drops him and gets an extra $300,000 in luxury tax proceeds for their trouble.

If a Portland-Memphis trade goes down, what happens to Miles? I'm guessing Memphis signs him to a guaranteed contract for the remainder of this season, plus all of next. They could then just stash him on the inactive list, or include him in the trade with the Blazers and let them pay him (again) to not play.

BNM

 

[Blaze01]

Conley has been so underwhelming that it is surprising anyone would think Outlaw isn't fair trade value for him...even with all of Outlaw's faults....

 

[Natebishop3]

Actually, I had a somewhat similar, but even more devious, thought this morning.

Is Darius a trading chip for Chris Wallace and the Grizzlies to get what they really want?

Sam Smith assumes it's Outlaw that Memphis covets. They have expressed interest in him in the past, but what is it that Memphis cheapskate owner Michael Heisley covets? Easy - CASH. Cash in the form of Raef LaFrantz' HUGE expiring contract - that will be paid mostly by insurance if LaFrentz doesn't play. This is an owner who tasks his GM with making nonsensical trades to save a couple hundred thousand dollars here and there. Think what he'd do to save $10 million dollars (or more, possibly much more). What if Heisley could swap a couple of big contracts - Darko and Marko for example for Raef's expiring deal - and still get Outlaw in the process. Darko's getting paid $7 million this year and $7.5 million next year. Marko Jaric is getting $6.575, $7 and $7.625 over this season and the next two.

So, something like this:

Raef LaFrentz + Travis Outlaw for Darko Milicic + Marko Jaric + Mike Conley

This works under the CBA, saves Memphis over $30 million over the next two plus years (all of Darko's and Marko's salaries, plus insurance pays LaFrentz). It's basically a super sized version of the long rumored Outlaw for Conley swap. Of course other ancillery players and draft picks could also be included, but that's the simplest scenario that gets the Grizz a player they supposedly want, plus saves Michael Heisley a whole shitload of cash - the real goal here.

So, why dick around with Miles? Heisely is desparate for cash (aka Raef LaFrentz' expiring, insurance paid contract). With Steve Blake having a career year and Jerryd Bayless starting to show potential as Brandon Roy's backcourt running mate for the next decade, suddenly the Blazers don't have a need for Mike Conley - or anyone else on the Memphis roster not named Gay or Mayo. Other supposedly available players (Gerald Wallace, Caron Butler, etc.) are a MUCH more appealling use of the LaFentz sweepstakes than anything Memphis would be willing to part with. So, naturally the Blazers have turned their attention elsewhere.

Enter the cap space killing, luxury tax inducing, medically retired Darius Miles. If the Grizz thought they could use him as a pawn to get what they really want (Raef's cash cow of a contract, and oh yeah, Travis Outlaw as a nice throw in), why wouldn't they do it? Miles is cheap (A Heisley special) and the risk is low. What they've been doing makes perfect sense. The closer they get Miles to that 10th game, the more leverage they have against Portland. Is it enough to get what they want, or will Portland say (or email) screw you and send LaFrentz and an armored car full of cash elsehwere? In which case Memphis keeps Miles just long enough (10 day contract) to screw Portland and then drops him and gets an extra $300,000 in luxury tax proceeds for their trouble.

If a Portland-Memphis trade goes down, what happens to Miles? I'm guessing Memphis signs him to a guaranteed contract for the remainder of this season, plus all of next. They could then just stash him on the inactive list, or include him in the trade with the Blazers and let them pay him (again) to not play.

BNM

You hit the nail on the head BNM. I'm really curious to see how this plays out now.

 

[e_blazer]

Actually, I had a somewhat similar, but even more devious, thought this morning.

Is Darius a trading chip for Chris Wallace and the Grizzlies to get what they really want?

Sam Smith assumes it's Outlaw that Memphis covets. They have expressed interest in him in the past, but what is it that Memphis cheapskate owner Michael Heisley covets? Easy - CASH. Cash in the form of Raef LaFrantz' HUGE expiring contract - that will be paid mostly by insurance if LaFrentz doesn't play. This is an owner who tasks his GM with making nonsensical trades to save a couple hundred thousand dollars here and there. Think what he'd do to save $10 million dollars (or more, possibly much more). What if Heisley could swap a couple of big contracts - Darko and Marko for example for Raef's expiring deal - and still get Outlaw in the process. Darko's getting paid $7 million this year and $7.5 million next year. Marko Jaric is getting $6.575, $7 and $7.625 over this season and the next two.

So, something like this:

Raef LaFrentz + Travis Outlaw for Darko Milicic + Marko Jaric + Mike Conley

This works under the CBA, saves Memphis over $30 million over the next two plus years (all of Darko's and Marko's salaries, plus insurance pays LaFrentz). It's basically a super sized version of the long rumored Outlaw for Conley swap. Of course other ancillery players and draft picks could also be included, but that's the simplest scenario that gets the Grizz a player they supposedly want, plus saves Michael Heisley a whole shitload of cash - the real goal here.

So, why dick around with Miles? Heisely is desparate for cash (aka Raef LaFrentz' expiring, insurance paid contract). With Steve Blake having a career year and Jerryd Bayless starting to show potential as Brandon Roy's backcourt running mate for the next decade, suddenly the Blazers don't have a need for Mike Conley - or anyone else on the Memphis roster not named Gay or Mayo. Other supposedly available players (Gerald Wallace, Caron Butler, etc.) are a MUCH more appealling use of the LaFentz sweepstakes than anything Memphis would be willing to part with. So, naturally the Blazers have turned their attention elsewhere.

Enter the cap space killing, luxury tax inducing, medically retired Darius Miles. If the Grizz thought they could use him as a pawn to get what they really want (Raef's cash cow of a contract, and oh yeah, Travis Outlaw as a nice throw in), why wouldn't they do it? Miles is cheap (A Heisley special) and the risk is low. What they've been doing makes perfect sense. The closer they get Miles to that 10th game, the more leverage they have against Portland. Is it enough to get what they want, or will Portland say (or email) screw you and send LaFrentz and an armored car full of cash elsehwere? In which case Memphis keeps Miles just long enough (10 day contract) to screw Portland and then drops him and gets an extra $300,000 in luxury tax proceeds for their trouble.

If a Portland-Memphis trade goes down, what happens to Miles? I'm guessing Memphis signs him to a guaranteed contract for the remainder of this season, plus all of next. They could then just stash him on the inactive list, or include him in the trade with the Blazers and let them pay him (again) to not play.

BNM

Given that the Blazers' main concern with the Miles situation is the loss of cap space this summer, I don't see that taking on two cap-killer contracts is a viable option. Waste $12 million in expiring contracts to save $9 mil? The math doesn't make sense to me, or am I missing something in your scenario?

 

[Minstrel]

Actually, I had a somewhat similar, but even more devious, thought this morning.

Is Darius a trading chip for Chris Wallace and the Grizzlies to get what they really want?

Sam Smith assumes it's Outlaw that Memphis covets. They have expressed interest in him in the past, but what is it that Memphis cheapskate owner Michael Heisley covets? Easy - CASH. Cash in the form of Raef LaFrantz' HUGE expiring contract - that will be paid mostly by insurance if LaFrentz doesn't play. This is an owner who tasks his GM with making nonsensical trades to save a couple hundred thousand dollars here and there. Think what he'd do to save $10 million dollars (or more, possibly much more). What if Heisley could swap a couple of big contracts - Darko and Marko for example for Raef's expiring deal - and still get Outlaw in the process. Darko's getting paid $7 million this year and $7.5 million next year. Marko Jaric is getting $6.575, $7 and $7.625 over this season and the next two.

So, something like this:

Raef LaFrentz + Travis Outlaw for Darko Milicic + Marko Jaric + Mike Conley

This works under the CBA, saves Memphis over $30 million over the next two plus years (all of Darko's and Marko's salaries, plus insurance pays LaFrentz). It's basically a super sized version of the long rumored Outlaw for Conley swap. Of course other ancillery players and draft picks could also be included, but that's the simplest scenario that gets the Grizz a player they supposedly want, plus saves Michael Heisley a whole shitload of cash - the real goal here.

So, why dick around with Miles? Heisely is desparate for cash (aka Raef LaFrentz' expiring, insurance paid contract). With Steve Blake having a career year and Jerryd Bayless starting to show potential as Brandon Roy's backcourt running mate for the next decade, suddenly the Blazers don't have a need for Mike Conley - or anyone else on the Memphis roster not named Gay or Mayo. Other supposedly available players (Gerald Wallace, Caron Butler, etc.) are a MUCH more appealling use of the LaFentz sweepstakes than anything Memphis would be willing to part with. So, naturally the Blazers have turned their attention elsewhere.

Enter the cap space killing, luxury tax inducing, medically retired Darius Miles. If the Grizz thought they could use him as a pawn to get what they really want (Raef's cash cow of a contract, and oh yeah, Travis Outlaw as a nice throw in), why wouldn't they do it? Miles is cheap (A Heisley special) and the risk is low. What they've been doing makes perfect sense. The closer they get Miles to that 10th game, the more leverage they have against Portland. Is it enough to get what they want, or will Portland say (or email) screw you and send LaFrentz and an armored car full of cash elsehwere? In which case Memphis keeps Miles just long enough (10 day contract) to screw Portland and then drops him and gets an extra $300,000 in luxury tax proceeds for their trouble.

If a Portland-Memphis trade goes down, what happens to Miles? I'm guessing Memphis signs him to a guaranteed contract for the remainder of this season, plus all of next. They could then just stash him on the inactive list, or include him in the trade with the Blazers and let them pay him (again) to not play.

If Portland wants Wallace or Butler and can use the LaFrentz contract to get them, that would be the end of their cap space anyway. They're not going to refuse to do a deal for a player of that caliber just to save Miles' $9 million of cap space. The chances that they can use cap space in the off-season to get a player better than Gerald Wallace or Caron Butler is essentially zero.

So, I don't think this possible "extortion" idea works. If Portland has superior options, they're going to take them regardless of this (and, in fact, making a big trade now turns the whole Miles thing moot since that would take away Portland's cap space itself). This wouldn't in any way be an inducement to turn down the chance at a far better player.

 

[Natebishop3]

If Portland wants Wallace or Butler and can use the LaFrentz contract to get them, that would be the end of their cap space anyway. They're not going to refuse to do a deal for a player of that caliber just to save Miles' $9 million of cap space. The chances that they can use cap space in the off-season to get a player better than Gerald Wallace or Caron Butler is essentially zero.

So, I don't think this possible "extortion" idea works. If Portland has superior options, they're going to take them regardless of this (and, in fact, making a big trade now turns the whole Miles thing moot since that would take away Portland's cap space itself). This wouldn't in any way be an inducement to turn down the chance at a far better player.

I was under the impression that it was a secret handshake, not extortion. At least that's what I thought this conspiracy was about.

 

[Minstrel]

I was under the impression that it was a secret handshake, not extortion. At least that's what I thought this conspiracy was about.

I was referring to Boob-No-More's idea that Memphis might be using Miles to hold Portland over a barrel, to get LaFrentz's salary-clearing contract.

 

[Natebishop3]

I was referring to Boob-No-More's idea that Memphis might be using Miles to hold Portland over a barrel, to get LaFrentz's salary-clearing contract.

Yeah, I don't think Portland would go for that. Especially not after that email. With that said, what if it truly was a secret handshake deal.

What if Portland agreed to make a deal with the Grizzlies, under the condition that Memphis play along with this whole show. Sign Miles, release Miles, email goes out, sign Miles again to create the illusion that they are thumbing their nose at the Blazers, all the while they have no intention of playing him the last two games.

A guy can dream, right?

 

[Boob-No-More]

Given that the Blazers' main concern with the Miles situation is the loss of cap space this summer, I don't see that taking on two cap-killer contracts is a viable option. Waste $12 million in expiring contracts to save $9 mil? The math doesn't make sense to me, or am I missing something in your scenario?

Miles coming back on the books costs Portland approximately $32.4 millionm in real dollars (not cap space). That's 80% of Miles' $9 million salay x2, plus another $9 million x 2 in luxury tax.

Plus, perhaps the players Portland gets might actually be useful. Darko might make a servivable back-up big (OK, I know it's a stretch, but he can't be worse than Frye or Diogo) and Jaric and/or Conley Jr. might see time at the point. Plus, Darko becomes a goodly sized expiring contrct next season - not for free agency, but as trade bait for teams eager to shed salary for the summer of LeBron. Marko becomes an expiring contract the following summer.

Plus, who knows maybe Portland actually wants Conley. They supposedly did at one time.

And, there could be other players and/or draft picks included as well. My example wasn't meant be the actual trade, just an example of why Memphis would do this and what they would gain by doing so.

Who knows, it could be part of a multi-team deal, perhaps involving a player Portland REALLY wants. I'll leave the details to Kevin Pritchard and Tom Penn.

BNM

 

[alex42083]

I sure hope we don't give into anything from the idiot Chris Wallace. I can't stand him right now..

 

[Boob-No-More]

[If Portland wants Wallace or Butler and can use the LaFrentz contract to get them, that would be the end of their cap space anyway. They're not going to refuse to do a deal for a player of that caliber just to save Miles' $9 million of cap space. The chances that they can use cap space in the off-season to get a player better than Gerald Wallace or Caron Butler is essentially zero.

Again, just examples of better uses of the LaFrantz expiring contract. If those players are available, hell yes, you get them and say the hell with cap space.

So, I don't think this possible "extortion" idea works. If Portland has superior options, they're going to take them regardless of this (and, in fact, making a big trade now turns the whole Miles thing moot since that would take away Portland's cap space itself). This wouldn't in any way be an inducement to turn down the chance at a far better player.

It may also be Memphis' way of trying to insert themselves into a multi-team deal to maybe dump a contract or two. Perhaps there is a deal out there that gets Portland a player they really want and also saves Memphis some cash. The threat of playing Miles that final two games is a bargaining chip - which was my point. It gives Memphis extra leverage, and maybe gets them a little something extra (dump a little more salary, get a future draft pick, etc.) if a trade is made. Without this bargaing chip, perhaps Memphis gets less, or maybe left out all together in a potential multi-team deal. The risk is small, but the potential reward is high.

BNM

 

[drexlersdad]

I sure hope we don't give into anything from the idiot Chris Wallace. I can't stand him right now..

yeah screw them, and bnm, your idea leaves us with less cap room, and two bad contracts, no thanks.

 

[Boob-No-More]

yeah screw them, and bnm, your idea leaves us with less cap room, and two bad contracts, no thanks.

Again, the example I gave was just the simplist scenario. It could actually be part of a larger multi-team deal that gets Portland a player they want (cap space be damned) and saves Memphis some cash. Without the Miles bargaining chip, maybe Portland does a straight two team deal to get the player they want directly. With the added bargaining chip, perhaps Memphis gets involved and gets a little something extra for their trouble.

Remember, their GM has recently made a couple of deals specifically to save a couple hundred thousand dollars. If there's a way to save some money, you can bet Michael Heisley has Chris Wallace working over time to get it done.

BNM

 

[drexlersdad]

Again, the example I gave was just the simplist scenario. It could actually be part of a larger multi-team deal that gets Portland a player they want (cap space be damned) and saves Memphis some cash. Without the Miles bargaining chip, maybe Portland does a straight two team deal to get the player they want directly. With the added bargaining chip, perhaps Memphis gets involved and gets a little something extra for their trouble.

Remember, their GM has recently made a couple of deals specifically to save a couple hundred thousand dollars. If there's a way to save some money, you can bet Michael Heisley has Chris Wallace working over time to get it done.

BNM

their gm just traded for shawn livingston to get miami under the tax threshold, doing them a favor and taking on $400,000, lessening their tax refund. fuck him.