Blazers Offer Roy Hibbert Max Contract

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KingSpeed said:
But the only years that matter are the next four years. Are they normal? Does that matter? Hibbert is an All Star.
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I don't think you really understand my point. I don't care whether the years are "normal" or whether a player actually makes the All Star team, really (especially with fans not always voting rationally). What I care about is whether the performance merits the All Star game, in my estimation, which generally means statistical evaluation. In my view, Hibbert was right around that level last year and hopefully he will be at least at that level in the next four years.
 
RoyToy said:
No, his FG% does matters, and it also shows he's not dominating the paint.

Last season he shot 57% on shots he attempted right under the rim.

Dwight Howard? 74%
Bynum? 73%
Pau? 66%
Marc? 69%
Duncan? 63%

I'm sure you get the idea by now, and tells you why he shot under 50% last season.
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What available player would you prefer we play at center?
 
KingSpeed said:
What available player would you prefer we play at center?
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You seem to be asking this question as if the Blazers have to be a contender next year

They don't. They can add a solid big man, let Meyers Leonard develop and play Aldridge at 5 for some stretches.
 
KingSpeed said:
But the only years that matter are the next four years. Are they normal? Does that matter? Hibbert is an All Star.
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And I wonder what is the average salary for an all-star who is not on a rookie contract???
 
handiman said:
I disagree. You're playing with the words as much as any... Hibbert's "max" deal is no different from the max deals for anyone coming off their rookie contract, which is all he can be compared to. Most franchise players are established as such by the end of their rookie deal, so it's a perfectly fair comparison. Hibbert is not in that category.
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I never said that the max deal is any different from any other rookie deal, but "MAX" is a useless term because it pretends that all max deals are the same, and they aren't. RoyToy is implicitly putting Hibbert's next salary in the same category as a lot of players who will be paid a lot more than he is.

The term "max deal" is pretty irrelevant for analysis. What if Portland offered him a penny less than max...would that be amenable to you and RoyToy since it's no longer "MAX money"? What's relevant is the actual dollars and years. If you think the actual money and years are too much, that's fine. But I think constantly harping on "max money" is pretty superficial and useless to actual analysis of the transaction.
 
BlazerBeav5 said:
Are people seriously opposed to signing an all star center in a position that would help us out tremendously?
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There will always be someone who is unhappy no matter what you do. Can't make everyone happy. I personally think this is a good move. It might not work out in the end, but if you're going to throw max money at someone, why not an All-Star center who is only 25 years old? Seems like a good move to me :dunno:
 
Minstrel said:
I don't think you really understand my point. I don't care whether the years are "normal" or whether a player actually makes the All Star team, really (especially with fans not always voting rationally). What I care about is whether the performance merits the All Star game, in my estimation, which generally means statistical evaluation. In my view, Hibbert was right around that level last year and hopefully he will be at least at that level in the next four years.
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I understand your point but it doesn't matter. We don't compare one generation to another generation when deciding who to sign. You get the best center for the era you're in. Is Hibbert an All Star in 1994? Prob not but who cares? He's an All Star in this era and that is what we want. One of the best centers NOW. We want to the best in this league, not 1994.
 
3RA1N1AC said:
run a double pick with both of them and lillard, beyond nasty

my only complaint is that he actually duplicates a little of what lma does, and is not explosive whatsoever, i would guess a vert in 20's
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Yeah, that's my one small concern. Still, remember how good the Blazers looked when LMA and Oden were both healthy? Hell, even Camby and LMA had success at some level, and Hibbert's a much better player on offense than Camby ever was as a Blazer.
 
RoyToy said:
You seem to be asking this question as if the Blazers have to be a contender next year

They don't. They can add a solid big man, let Meyers Leonard develop and play Aldridge at 5 for some stretches.
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Which "solid big man"?
 
RoyToy said:
Pray Meyers Leonard develops
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In 4 years, Leonard will only be 24 years old. At that point, he'll need a new contract, so you can choose between Hibbert and Leonard, keep both, or use Hibbert in a deadline trade as an expiring contract to either accumulate more picks, or, best case, Leonard makes Hibbert expendable at that point, and you don't have to worry about losing Hibbert, so you trade him for value to a team that wants his Bird rights.
 
KingSpeed said:
I understand your point but it doesn't matter. We don't compare one generation to another generation when deciding who to sign. You get the best center for the era you're in. Is Hibbert an All Star in 1994? Prob not but who cares? He's an All Star in this era and that is what we want. One of the best centers NOW. We want to the best in this league, not 1994.
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So, you don't understand my point. ;) I'm not comparing across generations, I'm setting a certain standard for what I view as All Star caliber. If you want me to put it in more elitist terms, for clarity, here it is: I don't trust the fan voting to get all the best players in and I think how the All Star ballot uses stricter position categories for voting isn't conducive to getting the best players on the team. So I'll use my own standards.
 
handiman said:
That's totally irrelevant to whether Hibbert is worth $15M per.
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I'm not sure he's worth $15m/year, but I know he's worth at least $10m/year, and with a RFA, you have to pay over market value to have a shot at acquiring the player.
 
handiman said:
That's totally irrelevant to whether Hibbert is worth $15M per.
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Wrong. We have lots of cap room. Comparison matters. Would you rather sign a better center (who?) or would you rather go after another player (who?) or would you rather just spend no money at all and let the cap room go to waste. If you would rather go after another center, say so and why. Or if you'd rather. After another position, say so and why. We signed Aldridge to a max contract and he wasn't an All Star. Why on EARTH would you not want to spend on a 25 year old All Star center who can grow with Aldridge who is nearly the same age? Who would you rather have?
 
Minstrel said:
So, you don't understand my point. ;) I'm not comparing across generations, I'm setting a certain standard for what I view as All Star caliber. If you want me to put it in more elitist terms, for clarity, here it is: I don't trust the fan voting to get all the best players in and I think how the All Star ballot uses stricter position categories for voting isn't conducive to getting the best players on the team. So I'll use my own standards.
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I have no issue with your "borderline" term, because Hibbert is one in terms of All-Star. With that, comparing his selection to Magloire's isn't fair to Hibbert. Magloire never even sniffed a 19 PER season. I think that right now, Hibbert is on the same tier as Marc Gasol.
 
PapaG said:
I'm not sure he's worth $15m/year, but I know he's worth at least $10m/year, and with a RFA, you have to pay over market value to have a shot at acquiring the player.
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Not just the RFA, but also that he's young, he's an All-Star, and he's a legit center in a league where legit centers are rare. Add all that up and you have a guy who requires a bigger contract than he may have earned.

Batum on the other hand..... plays an easier position to fill, hasn't shown any consistency, and is a bigger injury risk because of his international commitments.
 
KingSpeed said:
He is long retired. An All Star, by the way. But what "solid big man" would you rather sign NOW? Now is all that matters.
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You're missing my point in that the Blazers don't need to have a long-term answer in place next year
 
Minstrel said:
So, you don't understand my point. ;) I'm not comparing across generations, I'm setting a certain standard for what I view as All Star caliber. If you want me to put it in more elitist terms, for clarity, here it is: I don't trust the fan voting to get all the best players in and I think how the All Star ballot uses stricter position categories for voting isn't conducive to getting the best players on the team. So I'll use my own standards.
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Hibbert wasn't voted in by the fans so that point is moot. Great, you think Steve Francis and Iverson shouldn't have made All Star teams when they sucked. Who cares? We're talkin about Hibbert, voted in by coaches.
 
PapaG said:
I have no issue with your "borderline" term, because Hibbert is one in terms of All-Star. With that, comparing his selection to Magloire's isn't fair to Hibbert. Magloire never even sniffed a 19 PER season. I think that right now, Hibbert is on the same tier as Marc Gasol.
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I'm not comparing him with Magloire, I was just using Magloire as a handy example of why I said "normal year." I think Hibbert would have been an okay All Star in any year. Magloire wouldn't have been.
 
RoyToy said:
You're missing my point in that the Blazers don't need to have a long-term answer in place next year
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Who would you rather play center for the Blazers? I want Hibbert. Who do you want?
 
Minstrel said:
I'm not comparing him with Magloire, I was just using Magloire as a handy example of why I said "normal year." I think Hibbert would have been an okay All Star in any year. Magloire wouldn't have been.
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by the way, Magloire was pretty good that year and nearly won the MVP Award of that All Star game.
 
KingSpeed said:
Hibbert wasn't voted in by the fans so that point is moot. Great, you think Steve Francis and Iverson shouldn't have made All Star teams when they sucked. Who cares? We're talkin about Hibbert, voted in by coaches.
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I care. :) And I was never invalidating Hibbert's selection, I was explaining to you my process in deeming someone "All Star" or "borderline All Star" caliber, since you were asking me questions.
 
KingSpeed said:
by the way, Magloire was pretty good that year and nearly won the MVP Award of that All Star game.
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He really wasn't. He was average to slightly above average. Not a bad player, but not an All Star.
 
RoyToy said:
Greg Oden
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He's hurt and unavailable. He also doesn't want to play here. He also only averaged 9/7/1.5 when he played. Who cares? Moot point. What AVAILABLE guy would you prefer play center? You said to sign a solid big man. I asked who and you mentioned a guy who is retired. What AVAILABLE center do you want?
 
i don't think hibbert is a "dominant" big man that can lead a team to championship but then again none of the free agents, outside of maybe dwill, can be considered franchise changers. and just because we may not use the cap money this year doesn't mean it "goes to waste" as we could sign guys to one year deals, let the youngsters get some burn and try again next season.
 
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