Blazers' scummy anti-union shit?

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riverman said:
If the price of housing and cost of living doesn't come down drastically even 15 bucks minimum wage won't make it easy to raise kids, pay a mortgage and start a small business. In essence that's all americans really want....to afford a house or even rent...start a family and a career without an endless uphill debt canyon to get there. 120k level houses are selling for 500k right now....that's not sustainable. Forget college tuition...that's like an expensive house
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The economy has always had entry-level jobs for young people and second-income earners. Does the high school kid who works part time bussing tables in a restaurant to make a few bucks need to make $15 an hour? If so, then what’s a fair wage for the folks who have been working at the restaurant for three years and were getting a $15 an hour wage? You can’t expect them to accept that they’re going to get the same wage as the part time high school kid. And then there’s the question of what you’re willing to pay for your meal.
 
e_blazer said:
The economy has always had entry-level jobs for young people and second-income earners. Does the high school kid who works part time bussing tables in a restaurant to make a few bucks need to make $15 an hour? If so, then what’s a fair wage for the folks who have been working at the restaurant for three years and were getting a $15 an hour wage? You can’t expect them to accept that they’re going to get the same wage as the part time high school kid. And then there’s the question of what you’re willing to pay for your meal.
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Well in a union such as mine before...you have tiers...ours was from 1-15....at tier 15 you've capped out other than COLA increases...then you retire and tiers get bumped. The restaurant game is probably one of the toughest businesses to make work in my view....I had one once and never worked so hard for a couple years to break even, pay my bills and sell it....I'm saying it's tough to go to school, buy a house or even rent one if rent is most of your monthly income or mortgage is...the cost of living hasn't kept step with the living wage but we're cranking out real estate millionaires left and right...part time workers usually are students who don't have time to work full time at Home Depot or Subway...high turnover professions...I guess I blame excessive greed for the glaring imbalance in the ways and means of the working folks.
 
This seems like it is more of an OT discussion now so I have moved the thread.
 
riverman said:
Well in a union such as mine before...you have tiers...ours was from 1-15....at tier 15 you've capped out other than COLA increases...then you retire and tiers get bumped. The restaurant game is probably one of the toughest businesses to make work in my view....I had one once and never worked so hard for a couple years to break even, pay my bills and sell it....I'm saying it's tough to go to school, buy a house or even rent one if rent is most of your monthly income or mortgage is...the cost of living hasn't kept step with the living wage but we're cranking out real estate millionaires left and right...part time workers usually are students who don't have time to work full time at Home Depot or Subway...high turnover professions...I guess I blame excessive greed for the glaring imbalance in the ways and means of the working folks.
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My career has been consulting on land development. The thing most people don’t understand about housing prices is how much of it is a result of government regulation and fees. We live in an area that has an artificially constrained supply of land, which drives prices high. Government standards impact development costs in multiple ways. It can take years to get through land use permitting for even small projects. I just finished a six lot subdivision that took five years to get land use approval for. Now my client will start the engineering review and land development process that will take another 6-8 months. By the time he’s through with that, his cost per lot is probably $200,000 or more. Then they will start building homes. The typical building permit, with System Development Charges, will cost around $50,000. Lumber and other materials and labor are through the roof right now. So, yeah, homes starting at $600,000 or so is pretty much a given. Think it has to be that way? Check out housing prices for similar homes in Phoenix or Albuquerque.
 
calvin natt said:
I don't really get unions. I guess I understand wanting to be in one but why would you hire more expensive workers? And why does this make the Trailblazers or Rip City look bad?
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Okay I'll take this one.
I'm in a union. Ironworkers local #29 to be precise. I have been in for about 24 years. Before that i was Non-Union. The difference was then and still is staggering when you compare the quality of the employees and work they complete on a daily basis in my trade. I can promise you there is a reason employers choose to go signatory and stay with union ironworkers. I am now a full time apprenticeship instructor So i not only teach our apprentices but i also teach the non union guys that cross over from Non union to union because they absolutely have never had any clue there was more to ironwork than putting a bolt in a hole and then putting another bolt in another hole. (One bolt per hole please).
Welding technology AWS codes D1.1-D1.8 all are certified and trained as well as OSHA standard safety to every JIW (Journeyman Ironworker) as well as certs for equipment and master rigging practices. Financial stability you say? Yep employers actually would rather have a employee that is financially stable and has health insurance because then the employee doesn't blame the employer for his bum knee he got while snow boarding over the weekend. He has less problems with jobsite injuries and because the union trains the employees the employer can fire the guy for not following the rules.
This is just scratching the surface as to what the differences are. Believe me i can go on but in the end it's simply the product they offer. What we do in 8 hours with 10 men it takes 3 days for non union guys to do with 20 men. But here is the problem. The non union contractor still didn't pay his 20 men as much as the union contractor paid his 10 men. Not that he couldn't it's just he didn't want to and he would rather give them a $500 Christmas bonus instead of just paying them $100 a week more for 52 weeks. The stupid part is that non union guy actually buys this hook line and sinker thinking he is lucky to get that $500 bonus.

Like Rasta said above - ""Shut up and be grateful, peasants!""
 
kjironman1 said:
Okay I'll take this one.
I'm in a union. Ironworkers local #29 to be precise. I have been in for about 24 years. Before that i was Non-Union. The difference was then and still is staggering when you compare the quality of the employees and work they complete on a daily basis in my trade. I can promise you there is a reason employers choose to go signatory and stay with union ironworkers. I am now a full time apprenticeship instructor So i not only teach our apprentices but i also teach the non union guys that cross over from Non union to union because they absolutely have never had any clue there was more to ironwork than putting a bolt in a hole and then putting another bolt in another hole. (One bolt per hole please).
Welding technology AWS codes D1.1-D1.8 all are certified and trained as well as OSHA standard safety to every JIW (Journeyman Ironworker) as well as certs for equipment and master rigging practices. Financial stability you say? Yep employers actually would rather have a employee that is financially stable and has health insurance because then the employee doesn't blame the employer for his bum knee he got while snow boarding over the weekend. He has less problems with jobsite injuries and because the union trains the employees the employer can fire the guy for not following the rules.
This is just scratching the surface as to what the differences are. Believe me i can go on but in the end it's simply the product they offer. What we do in 8 hours with 10 men it takes 3 days for non union guys to do with 20 men. But here is the problem. The non union contractor still didn't pay his 20 men as much as the union contractor paid his 10 men. Not that he couldn't it's just he didn't want to and he would rather give them a $500 Christmas bonus instead of just paying them $100 a week more for 52 weeks. The stupid part is that non union guy actually buys this hook line and sinker thinking he is lucky to get that $500 bonus.

Like Rasta said above - ""Shut up and be grateful, peasants!""
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I think your field as well as many others require union guidelines and practices....absolutely...I think it's important for pipe fitters, ship builders, people who have to get it right...bridge builders...no cutting corners on what you guys do. I've seen an entire mountainside of apartment complexes tumble down a mountainside outside Taipei in an earthquake...they found beach sand was used in the foundation cement.as well as filler ballast...basically litter......a no no....beach sand cement crumbles from the salt but it saves money and trucking distance
 
handiman said:
Bingo. People can't see past their own greed. Unions were a necessity of a bygone era and have since become a net negative. People complain about Chinese goods and outsourced jobs, but don't want to acknowledge the main underlying problem: American labor is too expensive, and much of the blame there goes to unions.
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So, work for slave wages and the poor capitalists will hire you.
 
e_blazer said:
My career has been consulting on land development. The thing most people don’t understand about housing prices is how much of it is a result of government regulation and fees. We live in an area that has an artificially constrained supply of land, which drives prices high. Government standards impact development costs in multiple ways. It can take years to get through land use permitting for even small projects. I just finished a six lot subdivision that took five years to get land use approval for. Now my client will start the engineering review and land development process that will take another 6-8 months. By the time he’s through with that, his cost per lot is probably $200,000 or more. Then they will start building homes. The typical building permit, with System Development Charges, will cost around $50,000. Lumber and other materials and labor are through the roof right now. So, yeah, homes starting at $600,000 or so is pretty much a given. Think it has to be that way? Check out housing prices for similar homes in Phoenix or Albuquerque.
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I'm talking about existing homes though for the working person to rent or buy....it's brutal....land development and new construction is a whole different ballgame but don't get me started on lumber....I live a couple miles from a huge mill with lumber stacked to the sky..I can't buy a truckload of lumber there..they drive by my property everyday...I have to drive 40 minutes into Eugene to get a 2 X 4 unless I pay 3 times that at the little ace harware in my small town....I understand that permits and inertia are tough....I paid rent for a building for half a year waiting to get permission to move a step before opening my business....it's a pain. In my neighborhood there's no shortage of land or homes for sale...but the price jump is purely fueled by greed....not construction costs...at least some contractors in my neck of the woods have worked steadily through the pandemic pretty much...outdoor work at least...I sure won't pretend to know much about permits and commercial property development here...sounds like you do though
 
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Lanny said:
My mother sold Amway. It's a ponzi scam.
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But if you stay with it long enough and work hard enough and sell enough stuff to your family they will parade you around in front of a bunch of other people and tell them you are a really great person and they will clap and yell real loud for you. You won't really make any money but the people at the top are making it.
Have you ever been to one of their rally's?
 
kjironman1 said:
But if you stay with it long enough and work hard enough and sell enough stuff to your family they will parade you around in front of a bunch of other people and tell them you are a really great person and they will clap and yell real loud for you. You won't really make any money but the people at the top are making it.
Have you ever been to one of their rally's?
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Was conned into going to one when I was 20, friend said totally set me up said we were going to meet some of his school buds. After about 10 minutes we left.
Id rather go to a moonie mtg than a Amway.
 
jlprk said:
20 years ago, a talented volunteer started coming to strum his guitar every evening to get us to sleep. Then he tiptoes out. It was pretty boring in the 70 years before that.
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It's all about the end game....the first 70 were just warm up years..now you're a bona fide LSD shaman...only took 90 years!
 
Hoopguru said:
Was conned into going to one when I was 20, friend said totally set me up said we were going to meet some of his school buds. After about 10 minutes we left. Id rather go to a moonie mtg than a Amway.
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Would love to hear about it... Them?
 
kjironman1 said:
But if you stay with it long enough and work hard enough and sell enough stuff to your family they will parade you around in front of a bunch of other people and tell them you are a really great person and they will clap and yell real loud for you. You won't really make any money but the people at the top are making it.
Have you ever been to one of their rally's?
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If you do make money it's because you've got lots of family to buy your shit or you are fleecing some really gullible people. I remember a spray on shoe polish that was total crap, laundry soap that was the opposite of the bargain they claimed and, no kidding, a spray for your scalp that would disguise the fact that you are bald. There was a ton of other useless or way way way overpriced crap.
 
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