Brandon Roy: I'll never be 100%. Happy with 6th man role.

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PapaG said:
Sorry, but I've posted it at least 4 times previously in other threads where the same idea was raised by posters.

Didn't mean to be an ass; just am one at times.
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Like I read threads. what am I, a mod?
 
:dunno: Pardon me if I don't get excited.

Even if Roy means every word, he is being paid to be one of the top 10-15 players in the league. If he can no longer play at THAT level, his contract makes him a liability.
 
julius said:
Like I read threads. what am I, a mod?
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Heh.

It's a good idea, and the first time I heard it I was all for it when I read it! Then I looked it up in the CBA before piling on, and found it was impossible for Roy to do it.

Roy is criticized enough on this board, so I overreact a bit (who, me?) when I see the foundation for another criticism that isn't realistic thrown around multiple times by multiple posters.
 
So, overall, pretty good news. While Brandon won't ever be 100% healthy, he and his doctors expect he will be able to play at a high level again. He's willing to accept a 6th man spot if his health or the needs of the team demand it. Sounds to me like he's being a professional about his situation. Maybe some folks around here could cut him a little slack and see if he carries through on his talk.

As far as the money goes, IIRC it doesn't matter when it's paid to the the athlete, it's calculated over the life of the contract in accordance with the maximum pay raises the CBA allows. I guess my take on this is that the Blazers actually could be in better shape from a cap standpoint going forward than if Roy, Oden, and Aldridge had all received the max contracts that we anticipated back when Oden was drafted. Aldridge accepted less than max money and now it looks like a bargain if he keeps playing the way he is. Oden won't approach max dollars with a new contract, although I expect that it will have an opt out for him so that he can get paid more money in the future if he stays healthy. Wesley's contract looks to be a bargain.

From a cap standpoint, it doesn't matter which players are getting the money. Roy probably will never be worth the money he's getting, but averaged over the total payroll, it's likely to be better than a lot of teams.
 
oldmangrouch said:
:dunno: Pardon me if I don't get excited.

Even if Roy means every word, he is being paid to be one of the top 10-15 players in the league. If he can no longer play at THAT level, his contract makes him a liability.
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Perhaps I missed it, but were you lobbying for Roy to be paid more money when he was being paid on the rookie scale, yet playing as a Top 10-15 player in the league? What did his contract make him during those years? Last year, prior to his extension kicking in, he was still being paid as a rookie, yet was 3rd-team All-NBA. Were you complaining about Roy being a liability at that point?
 
PapaG said:
Perhaps I missed it, but were you lobbying for Roy to be paid more money when he was being paid on the rookie scale, yet playing as a Top 10-15 player in the league? What did his contract make him during those years? Last year, prior to his extension kicking in, he was still being paid as a rookie, yet was 3rd-team All-NBA. Were you complaining about Roy being a liability at that point?
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The argument that Roy is no longer worth his contract is stupid, in the NBA you get paid for potential generally. I know everyone of the radio doctors is now coming out and saying that the Blazers knew that his knees were bad. At the same time, he played at a pretty high level in year one of his max deal. Does it suck that he has been forever changed, yes. Is he overpaid based on his current health? Yes. At the end of the day he could be a great player on this Blazer team, especially with LMA being the main man.
 
just as a point of fact, THIS is Year One of his max deal. The Max Extension was signed at the beginning of the last year of his rookie scale contract.
 
BrianFromWA said:
just as a point of fact, THIS is Year One of his max deal. The Max Extension was signed at the beginning of the last year of his rookie scale contract.
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Yeah, that's what I posted. Not sure who you were referencing in this post. I just wonder if the same people now whining about Roy's contract today were as concerned when he was grossly outperforming his rookie contract. If not, I find it hard to take the current bitching seriously.
 
PapaG said:
Perhaps I missed it, but were you lobbying for Roy to be paid more money when he was being paid on the rookie scale, yet playing as a Top 10-15 player in the league? What did his contract make him during those years? Last year, prior to his extension kicking in, he was still being paid as a rookie, yet was 3rd-team All-NBA. Were you complaining about Roy being a liability at that point?
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Sorry, but I don't see your point. Roy has gone from being a very good player, to being an average player. Grossly over-paying for an average player is not a recipe for success. Whether or not the contract was justified when he signed it, is beside the point.
 
Oh... I know a lot of folks have been saying it, but hearing it from his own mouth is so much more heartbreaking. I hope that his own determination won't fade.
 
PapaG said:
Yeah, that's what I posted. Not sure who you were referencing in this post.
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Sug's post right above mine where he said Roy played well in Year One of the contract.
 
oldmangrouch said:
Sorry, but I don't see your point. Roy has gone from being a very good player, to being an average player. Grossly over-paying for an average player is not a recipe for success. Whether or not the contract was justified when he signed it, is beside the point.
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Ladies and gentlemen I am pleased to welcome to the stage, Mr. Crystal Ball
 
Re: Roy interview with Canzano

maxiep said:
Remember John Havlicek? It's possible.
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Ginobli probably could (should?) have been an All Star in 2007-08. That's the year he won 6th Man of the Year.

Kevin McHale was an All-Star in 83-84, and he only started 10 out of 82 games that year.
 
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Sug said:
Ladies and gentlemen I am pleased to welcome to the stage, Mr. Crystal Ball
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So what are you saying...that the team should not try to correct the mistake?

Even the smartest people make mistakes. Smart people also acknowledge the mistake and try to fix it. The team might well be stuck with Roy's contract - but they should at least be *trying* to find a way out.
 
oldmangrouch said:
So what are you saying...that the team should not try to correct the mistake?

Even the smartest people make mistakes. Smart people also acknowledge the mistake and try to fix it. The team might well be stuck with Roy's contract - but they should at least be *trying* to find a way out.
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What did you have in mind? Putting out a contract on Brandon?
 
oldmangrouch said:
So what are you saying...that the team should not try to correct the mistake?

Even the smartest people make mistakes. Smart people also acknowledge the mistake and try to fix it. The team might well be stuck with Roy's contract - but they should at least be *trying* to find a way out.
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They should be "trying" to find a way out? What the fuck can they do? Please let us know. Shit or get off the pot.
 
Rudy, Wes and Batum should all be ahead of him in the rotation. Other players I wouldn't want a less-than-100% Roy taking minutes from are Patty, Dante and eventualy Armon. So, that puts him as the 7th player. In the backcourt...
 
Blazer4ever said:
Rudy, Wes and Batum should all be ahead of him in the rotation. Other players I wouldn't want a less-than-100% Roy taking minutes from are Patty, Dante and eventualy Armon. So, that puts him as the 7th player. In the backcourt...
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Hobbled Roy has a better PER than all of the players you mentioned outside of Matthews.

The Patty/Dante/Armon stuff is also just weird, IMO.
 
Sug said:
They should be "trying" to find a way out? What the fuck can they do? Please let us know. Shit or get off the pot.
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Cho needs to trade Roy for Carmelo Anthony, and then trade a resigned Anthony this summer to Miami for LeBron James. Meanwhile, Przy/Miller/filler need to be traded for Chris Paul, who is then immediately given an extension by Portland.

Anything less will be considered a failure! Make it happen, Cho! It's easy.
 
There's no shame in being a 6th man and coming off the bench. It is possible to be very productive in this role and really help your team.

Brandon Roy's good friend, Jamal Crawford averaged 18.0 PPG in 2009-10 coming off the bench (didn't start a single came) and won 6th Man of the Year. I think Roy should reach out to him for some advice - perhaps he already has.

Jason Terry averaged 19.6 PPG coming off the bench in 2008-09.

Manu has been both an all-star and 6th man of the year - but not in the same season. He was, however, 3rd team all-NBA while coming off the bench in 2007-08 while averaging 19.5 PPG.

Detlef Schremf was a 3-time all-star and 2-time 6th Man of the Year winner. Again, not in the same seasons (although he was an all-star in 1993 after spending the first 1/4 of the season coming off the bench).

Our own Uncle Cliffy averaged 19.1 PPG and won 6th Man of the Year in 92-93.

Ricky Pierce averaged 23.0 PPG coming off the bench in 1989-90, and 20.5 PPG the following season. His PTS/36 went down noticeably when he became a starter. That's one advantage Roy will have coming off the bench - many of his minutes will be spent against the other team's second unit.

Kevin McHale was an all-star and 6th Man of the Year in the same season (83-84) when he averaged 18.4 PPG. He won 6th Man of eth Year again the following season while averaging 19.5 PPG.

Can Brandon Roy be a 6th Man AND an All-Star - at the same time? It can, and has, happened, but it's rather rare. What is much more common is a 6th man who averages 18 or 19 PPG and is a huge contributor to his team's success. Right now, with our injury depleted roster, out bench flat out sucks and is costing us wins. A less than 100% Brandon Roy would be a huge upgrade over anyone we currently have coming off the bench. I hope he can make the transition, accept his new role, and turn our bench from a liability into an asset.

BNM
 
Sug said:
They should be "trying" to find a way out? What the fuck can they do? Please let us know. Shit or get off the pot.
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Trade him. If need be, swallow an equally bad , but shorter contract.
Buy him out.
Push him to take medical retirement.
Push for an amnesty exception in the new CBA.

I accept the fact that it *may* not be possible. I don't accept just giving up on even trying to contend until his contract runs out.

What about that don't you agree with?
 
Flame away, but I don't see us being a serious contender with Wes Matthews as our starting two. IMO, we need someone better. If Roy is going to be a 6th man, either at the 1, 2 or 3, then we need an upgrade at the starting SG position.
 
Maybe we should wait to see how Roy plays before we have him come off the bench. Hell he might come back 97%.
 
mgb said:
Maybe we should wait to see how Roy plays before we have him come off the bench. Hell he might come back 97%.
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I think that is extremely unlikely, Mike. I asked my dr friend about the meniscus, and he said it's an acomplishment just to continue playing. He would be shocked if he made it the length of the contract.

I also have to waonder if Roy is saying all the right things because he has heard the scuttlebutt about tne amnesty clause?
 
Boob-No-More said:
There's no shame in being a 6th man and coming off the bench. It is possible to be very productive in this role and really help your team.

Brandon Roy's good friend, Jamal Crawford averaged 18.0 PPG in 2009-10 coming off the bench (didn't start a single came) and won 6th Man of the Year. I think Roy should reach out to him for some advice - perhaps he already has.

Jason Terry averaged 19.6 PPG coming off the bench in 2008-09.

Manu has been both an all-star and 6th man of the year - but not in the same season. He was, however, 3rd team all-NBA while coming off the bench in 2007-08 while averaging 19.5 PPG.

Detlef Schremf was a 3-time all-star and 2-time 6th Man of the Year winner. Again, not in the same seasons (although he was an all-star in 1993 after spending the first 1/4 of the season coming off the bench).

Our own Uncle Cliffy averaged 19.1 PPG and won 6th Man of the Year in 92-93.

Ricky Pierce averaged 23.0 PPG coming off the bench in 1989-90, and 20.5 PPG the following season. His PTS/36 went down noticeably when he became a starter. That's one advantage Roy will have coming off the bench - many of his minutes will be spent against the other team's second unit.

Kevin McHale was an all-star and 6th Man of the Year in the same season (83-84) when he averaged 18.4 PPG. He won 6th Man of eth Year again the following season while averaging 19.5 PPG.

Can Brandon Roy be a 6th Man AND an All-Star - at the same time? It can, and has, happened, but it's rather rare. What is much more common is a 6th man who averages 18 or 19 PPG and is a huge contributor to his team's success. Right now, with our injury depleted roster, out bench flat out sucks and is costing us wins. A less than 100% Brandon Roy would be a huge upgrade over anyone we currently have coming off the bench. I hope he can make the transition, accept his new role, and turn our bench from a liability into an asset.

BNM
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Chris Gatling owns this discussion.
 
I'm coming in late and haven't read all the posts, but I am not inspired by Roy being a 6th man.

A second unit is your 'hustle' unit. You find your pure shooters there and pesky defenders there... and to anchor ours with an isolation player that plods up and down the court makes me wonder if it will sink our second unit altogether. No creativity, no fast breaks, no risk taking defense... plod, plod, plod, send players to the corner, get the ball to a limping Roy and let him go 1 on 3- over and over and over again.

On the plus side, it's always nice to have a veteran in with the second unit that can bring some sense of stability. But his style of play seems so incompatible with what the better second teams do that I think it spells disaster.
 
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