BREAKING: CHAUNCEY BILLUPS ARRESTED BY FBI FOR ILLEGAL GAMBLING

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wizenheimer said:
he was put on immediate leave by the NBA. In that circumstance, is Portland obligated to pay him for not coaching?
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I don't know the legality but it still makes me uncomfortable. A person should have presumption of innocence. OTOH a lot of businesses would fire someone as soon as they are arrested. But the player having salary in escrow and coach forfeit just seems unjust. Fucked up however you slice it.
 
crandc said:
I don't know the legality but it still makes me uncomfortable. A person should have presumption of innocence. OTOH a lot of businesses would fire someone as soon as they are arrested. But the player having salary in escrow and coach forfeit just seems unjust. Fucked up however you slice it.
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the player is represented by the player's union

there is a coach's union but it's not part of the CBA. Maybe it's a bad assumption but I think the NBA and the Blazers are privvy to more information about the indictment than the public is

and what if Chauncey does go to trial and is found guilty 2 years from now? With how long these kinds of cases can take, 2 years is not unrealistic. So then, the Blazers would have given 14M to Chauncey with almost no method for clawing any of that back. It could all be spent or gone and Chauncey could be heading to jail, already bankrupt

again, when the FBI is the lead on indictments the conviction rate is 97%. Maybe Chauncey
 
crandc said:
I don't know the legality but it still makes me uncomfortable. A person should have presumption of innocence. OTOH a lot of businesses would fire someone as soon as they are arrested. But the player having salary in escrow and coach forfeit just seems unjust. Fucked up however you slice it.
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Just gonna say this out loud without caring who it brings out, but in this country, the people who look like me have never had the presumption of innocence.
We have the presumption of guilt.
 
PCmor7 said:
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When I hear this and I see the bail they set I think that there is probably some solid evidence but what could be more damning is if all of the people who are getting their plea deals now are doing so with reliable testimony against Chauncey.

Something we see a lot in our criminal justice system that I don't actually agree with is not always going hardest on the person in a case that has committed the worst criminal acts but going after the biggest name.

The justification that I've always heard in public and in private from prosecutors is that part of their job representing the people isn't just getting punishment for the crime they are prosecuting but preventing future crimes with a severe enough and public enough punishment to be a deterrent.

I think there is a really good chance that Chauncey is in trouble because he's the biggest name and because it sounds like a lot of people are flipping on him. Still I'd assume he has good representation and advisors.

Putting up the $5M bail isn't any sign of what Chauncey's team thinks of his chances in trial are, as long as Chauncey shows up for trial his family will get that money back. So really the size of the bail is only a reflection of what the judge thinks and bail being set that high is not a great sign for Chauncey.
 
wizenheimer said:
doesn't always have to be about flight risk

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the judge set the bail and I'm assuming he has information about the charges from evidence and wiretaps that haven't been made public yet
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Doesn't mean it isn't ridiculous. If he were charged with murder or rape, then absolutely, you don't want that person out, so he can do it again. But who cares if he is sitting at home waiting to go to the trial? He is not going to run because his face is too well-known. And he is not going to play in any poker games.
If they were really concerned, then hold him without bail.
 
No, escrow means if he's guilty he doesn't get the money, as far as I know. So the Blazers wouldn't have to try to get it back. And if not guilty he gets it. That is my understanding.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Doesn't mean it isn't ridiculous. If he were charged with murder or rape, then absolutely, you don't want that person out, so he can do it again. But who cares if he is sitting at home waiting to go to the trial? He is not going to run because his face is too well-known. And he is not going to play in any poker games.
If they were really concerned, then hold him without bail.
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the bail was set based upon his wealth and the severity of alleged offenses, including links to organized crime, not just the risk that he'd flee to China
 
crandc said:
No, escrow means if he's guilty he doesn't get the money, as far as I know. So the Blazers wouldn't have to try to get it back. And if not guilty he gets it. That is my understanding.
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that's not my understanding. Even if he's not convicted or pleads guilty (unlikely), he could still be found in violation of his morals and behavior clauses. Seems it's pretty likely the feds have wiretap(s) where Chauncey is giving a gambler inside information on Blazer injuries. That itself would be enough to violate his contract and probably get him banned from the NBA
 
wizenheimer said:
that's not my understanding. Even if he's not convicted or pleads guilty (unlikely), he could still be found in violation of his morals and behavior clauses. Seems it's pretty likely the feds have wiretap(s) where Chauncey is giving a gambler inside information on Blazer injuries. That itself would be enough to violate his contract and probably get him banned from the NBA
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OK. Thanks for clarification. Same would presumably apply to players? Although players have been reinstated with far worse crimes.
 
crandc said:
OK. Thanks for clarification. Same would presumably apply to players? Although players have been reinstated with far worse crimes.
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players have protections and processes available under the CBA. I don't think coaches do.
 
wizenheimer said:
again, when the FBI is the lead on indictments the conviction rate is 97%. Maybe Chauncey
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Two things. First, that's a normal FBI, not one run by a guy who was sentenced to 14 years in prison before Trump gave him clemency, and Trump's FBI and judicial resources have been utilized in some pretty unusual ways.

Second, the conviction rate is high, sometimes for reasons that have nothing to do with commission of a crime. They could get a "conviction" for something miniscule that wouldn't even send a subject to jail just because they have deep pockets and the accused would rather take the slap on the wrist rather than be sitting for potentially years without income while their savings are going to a defense firm. Technically, they still get a conviction, even if a plea offer is accepted.

And I don't know if Chauncey did something wrong or not. Just saying sometimes numbers and circumstances don't tell the whole story.
 
wizenheimer said:
players have protections and processes available under the CBA. I don't think coaches do.
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I suspect they have protections, too, just perhaps not the same or as extensive as the players.

For instance, a coach couldn't be fired in a case of discrimination. A coach also could be fired in a way that violates their contract, in which case they could successfully sue the organization that fired them, probably with the union's support.
 
PCmor7 said:
Two things. First, that's a normal FBI, not one run by a guy who was sentenced to 14 years in prison before Trump gave him clemency, and Trump's FBI and judicial resources have been utilized in some pretty unusual ways.

Second, the conviction rate is high, sometimes for reasons that have nothing to do with commission of a crime. They could get a "conviction" for something miniscule that wouldn't even send a subject to jail just because they have deep pockets and the accused would rather take the slap on the wrist rather than be sitting for potentially years without income while their savings are going to a defense firm. Technically, they still get a conviction, even if a plea offer is accepted.

And I don't know if Chauncey did something wrong or not. Just saying sometimes numbers and circumstances don't tell the whole story.
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the investigation, as I understand it, has been going on for years. Probably there was some political theater in the indictment announcements, but it sure looks like this has been generated by a multi-year investigation into activities of organized crime.

I don't know how what the outcome of all this will be, but I'm not shedding any tears about Chauncey not getting his 7M/year salary
 
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