Breaking down Cronin's moves

[riverman]

How do you think other gm’s perceive Joe as a negotiator?

He seems to have a relationship with Houston, Clippers, Lakers, Knicks, Nets, Wizards, Celtics, Bucks and Suns so far. I think he's held his own and actually like the way he blew off Miami and worked the Suns, Bucks, Celtics deals around Dame.

 

[Strenuus]

That was the Banton trade. The Jrue trade is down in TBD.

Huh I coulda swore banton came with the jrue trade.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Huh I coulda swore banton came with the jrue trade.

No.

 

[STOMP]

It's not unreasonable to perceive that our "overpriced guys of little value" can be of greater value to other teams than ours, particularly for those teams seeking to contend with their present rosters. Nobody's realistically expecting "a magic bunny", but an even-less-valuable player plus a still-in-development youngster or a draft pick is not unrealistic

I wish I shared your optimistic views. You really think Grant or Ayton are viewed as the missing piece/difference maker for any wanna-be contender? They are average starters at best being paid like they're perenial All-Stars. In the era of salary cap tiers we're in, I'd be somewhat surprised if Ayton could even be moved for just an expiring deal & no picks and he's only got one year left on his contract after this. I would be flat shocked if they were able to move Grant for anything but similar overpriced longterm mediocrity as his contract is awful and runs well into his 30s.

STOMP

 

[STOMP]

What about trading one overpriced healthy vet for one overpriced unhealthy vet for this year to get a few more losses?

I'd be all for it as long as the contract doesn't run any longer then the guy we're sending out. These are big contracts we're talking about though, so pretty limited options to make trades work

STOMP

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

I don’t think it’s fair to hold it against Cronin that Grant isn’t nearly the player we thought we were getting. He seems to have lost that drive to be good & productive on the court on a consistent basis. Crushing his trade value now. But I guess it’s part of the job to gauge that personality trait when evaluating players.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Whats the point of trading one overpriced guy of little value for someone else's overpriced guy of little value?
STOMP

Team chemistry and player development. If they have a player getting in the way of one of their up and comers, it behooves them to trade for a guy you don't have to give as much minutes and or usage to.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I wish I shared your optimistic views. You really think Grant or Ayton are viewed as the missing piece/difference maker for any wanna-be contender? They are average starters at best being paid like they're perenial All-Stars. In the era of salary cap tiers we're in, I'd be somewhat surprised if Ayton could even be moved for just an expiring deal & no picks and he's only got one year left on his contract after this. I would be flat shocked if they were able to move Grant for anything but similar overpriced longterm mediocrity as his contract is awful and runs well into his 30s.

STOMP

As has been mentioned multiple times, Sacramento (for one) could easily package a pair of less-than-mediocre players (with shorter contacts) for Grant--I just doubt Cronin's willing to sell that low (even though he should). Orlando could easily do something similar for Simons. Ayton... he's probably the least movable of the three.

 

[Ripcity4life77]

I went through your original post Nate and while I can agree to disagree on some things but three things stood out that you called a W even though I am thinking it was more of a L --- also a TBD one is a loss too -- the Hart / Thybulle trade mess was a loss

- CJ trade -- We turned Hart into a TBD trade ( in your own words ) -- so how on earth can this be considered a W -- this is what I am talking about you talk out of both sides of your mouth just so you can pat Joe on his back.
- Hart Trade to NY -- Thybulle is NOT even close to a TBD he worked with Dame on the team to a lesser degree but only when his shot was hitting but now what the hell does he do on this rebuild -- Zip , Zilch , Nadda , Nothing -- WTF are you talking about
- Dame Trade -- He got lucky cause of Camara turning into something and not going to lie that is prolly not on Joe that is on the assistant GM / Draft guru forget his name sure as fuck is not on Joe but Ayton runs hot to cold to wtf is he doing out there at times -- how is this a Win i might buy its a TBD but no way in living HELL is this a WIN

 

[Natebishop3]

I went through your original post Nate and while I can agree to disagree on some things but three things stood out that you called a W even though I am thinking it was more of a L --- also a TBD one is a loss too -- the Hart / Thybulle trade mess was a loss

- CJ trade -- We turned Hart into a TBD trade ( in your own words ) -- so how on earth can this be considered a W -- this is what I am talking about you talk out of both sides of your mouth just so you can pat Joe on his back.
- Hart Trade to NY -- Thybulle is NOT even close to a TBD he worked with Dame on the team to a lesser degree but only when his shot was hitting but now what the hell does he do on this rebuild -- Zip , Zilch , Nadda , Nothing -- WTF are you talking about
- Dame Trade -- He got lucky cause of Camara turning into something and not going to lie that is prolly not on Joe that is on the assistant GM / Draft guru forget his name sure as fuck is not on Joe but Ayton runs hot to cold to wtf is he doing out there at times -- how is this a Win i might buy its a TBD but no way in living HELL is this a WIN

The CJ trade was the best value we were ever going to get for CJ. We got off his awful contract. It was a win. Period.

The Hart trade was a win because we could have let him walk for nothing in the offseason. That's what Neil's dumb ass would have done. We got a first round pick and Thybulle. That's a win in and of itself, but I put it at TBD because I want to see how Murray turns out.

Dame trade (and by proxy the Jrue trade) - we ended up with three firsts, some swaps, we got Ayton, RWIII, and Camara. We did that with Dame trying to hold us over a barrel. And we also got Deni by using two of those picks and Brogdon. I would say getting Deni and Camara ALONE was a win. Sorry you don't agree.

 

[STOMP]

As has been mentioned multiple times, Sacramento (for one) could easily package a pair of less-than-mediocre players (with shorter contacts) for Grant--I just doubt Cronin's willing to sell that low (even though he should). Orlando could easily do something similar for Simons. Ayton... he's probably the least movable of the three.

Just because you could do something doesn't mean you should. How in the world can you suggest Sacramento looks at Grant's underwhelming play the last few years and think thats what they're missing for a championship run? Besides falling well short of that goal they'd gut their roster and tie up precious cap flexibility for 3 more years past this one with declining mediocrity! That you think it's Cronin's lack of motivation to make such a deal thats holding things up... smh. Without question Grant is the least movable of the three.

Ayton and Ant both have only one more year past this one under contract. At 35M next year, Ayton is also going to be very difficult to move just because of his big number for teams trying to put together a package of players that large that doesn't completely gut their roster. At 27.7M owed for the last season under contract next year, Ant is the cheapest as well as the youngest of the three. His skillset of outside shooting and the ability to go at the end of the clock could be used by Orlando too, who could conceivably put together a package for him. But even with the most pro-Magic package possible going back to Portland (say Isaac & Anthony), Ant's addition in no way makes them a contender this or next year. Doing this, best case they're slightly better this year and then let him expire off their cap next as they have to resign Banchero and not go over the Apron tiers.

You claimed that it's not unrealistic that these three "can be of greater value to other teams than ours, particularly for those teams seeking to contend with their present rosters"... you've yet to suggest such a scenario

STOMP