Bring Dre Back?

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PapaG said:
That says a lot about Miller, IMO. May as well bring back Rod Strickland, too. That worked out well the last time the team got off to a great start.
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Yup. Some people don't like Mo. And some of those people also like Dre. Makes sense to mess with the best win record in the NBA for the sake of what we like and dislike.

So, ya, about that... when does winning games and not messing with a good thing take priority over all this trade non-sense?
 
Blazer Fanatic said:
Yup. Some people don't like Mo. And some of those people also like Dre. Makes sense to mess with the best win record in the NBA for the sake of what we like and dislike.

So, ya, about that... when does winning games and not messing with a good thing take priority over all this trade non-sense?
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It isn't about "liking" or "disliking" Mo. I have nothing against the guy. I think he seems like a really likable guy. I just don't think he's playing very well and the team could do better with a pure point guard coming off the bench. I find it funny that Mo has one good game and suddenly he's underrated and one of the best backup point guards in the game though.

His last really good game was against Philly, which was ten games ago.

Vs Bobcats 15 points, 6-9 shooting, 10 assists, 2 steals, 3 turnovers
Vs Thunder 5 points, 2-7 shooting, 3 assists, 0 turnovers
Vs Pelicans 8 points, 3-9 shooting, 5 assists, 0 turnovers
Vs Heat 5 points, 1-5 shooting, 9 assists, 5 turnovers
Vs Clippers 12 points, 4-10 shooting, 8 assists, 2 turnovers
Vs Pelicans 7 points, 2-8 shooting, 5 assists, 2 turnovers
Vs TWolves 9 points, 4-11 shooting, 6 assists, 1 turnover
Vs Cavs 9 points, 3-8 shooting, 6 assists, 2 turnovers
Vs Pistons 8 points, 3-10 shooting, 3 assists, 0 turnovers
Vs Sixers 14 points, 5-9 shooting, 7 assists, 3 turnovers

Out of those ten games, he has shot 40% or better only three times. The game against Charlotte, Philly, and the Clippers. His passing hasn't been too bad though. He's putting up good assists, and his turnovers haven't been horrible. His shooting has just been abysmal though.

66.7%
28.6%
33.3%
20%
40%
25%
36.4%
37.5%
30%
55.6%

If he was shooting a better percentage, and dribbling the ball less, I would be much happier with his results.
 
Natebishop3 said:
It isn't about "liking" or "disliking" Mo. I have nothing against the guy. I think he seems like a really likable guy. I just don't think he's playing very well and the team could do better with a pure point guard coming off the bench. I find it funny that Mo has one good game and suddenly he's underrated and one of the best backup point guards in the game though.

His last really good game was against Philly, which was ten games ago.

Vs Bobcats 15 points, 6-9 shooting, 10 assists, 2 steals, 3 turnovers
Vs Thunder 5 points, 2-7 shooting, 3 assists, 0 turnovers
Vs Pelicans 8 points, 3-9 shooting, 5 assists, 0 turnovers
Vs Heat 5 points, 1-5 shooting, 9 assists, 5 turnovers
Vs Clippers 12 points, 4-10 shooting, 8 assists, 2 turnovers
Vs Pelicans 7 points, 2-8 shooting, 5 assists, 2 turnovers
Vs TWolves 9 points, 4-11 shooting, 6 assists, 1 turnover
Vs Cavs 9 points, 3-8 shooting, 6 assists, 2 turnovers
Vs Pistons 8 points, 3-10 shooting, 3 assists, 0 turnovers
Vs Sixers 14 points, 5-9 shooting, 7 assists, 3 turnovers

Out of those ten games, he has shot 40% or better only three times. The game against Charlotte, Philly, and the Clippers. His passing hasn't been too bad though. He's putting up good assists, and his turnovers haven't been horrible. His shooting has just been abysmal though.

66.7%
28.6%
33.3%
20%
40%
25%
36.4%
37.5%
30%
55.6%

If he was shooting a better percentage, and dribbling the ball less, I would be much happier with his results.
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The assists are more important to me than the shooting %. As long as Mo can distribute the ball, I'm totally fine with him being the back-up guard. The "unbolded" lines are when he tries to play hero ball and really ruins the flow of our offense.
 
While I can appreciate supporting your disdain for Mo with some statistics Nate, I think your missing the boat on what exactly it is that Mo does for the Blazers.

Mo pushes the ball up the court extremely well. Dre does NOT do that.

Mo stretches the court. And while you have an argument that he's no Lillard in 3P%, Mo IS a threat to shoot and thus teams are forced to stay out on him. Dre doesn't do that.

I also think it's disingenuous to disparage Mo without realizing how much having LA on the court affects the PG position. Mo is often in the game when LA isn't, more so than Lillard.

Mo isn't perfect, but for a $2.5 mil room exception, he was and is literally a steal.
 
magnifier661 said:
The assists are more important to me than the shooting %. As long as Mo can distribute the ball, I'm totally fine with him being the back-up guard. The "unbolded" lines are when he tries to play hero ball and really ruins the flow of our offense.
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The 5 assists and 0 turnovers is way more impressive than the 9 assists and 5 turnovers. It's not just about assists, but also about turnovers. Putting up a 2-1 turnover ratio is not very good.
 
Natebishop3 said:
The 5 assists and 0 turnovers is way more impressive than the 9 assists and 5 turnovers. It's not just about assists, but also about turnovers. Putting up a 2-1 turnover ratio is not very good.
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Adding the assists and turnovers in your list of games, I get 62/18 = 3.44.
 
Among players with at least Mo's minutes (he's just a sub while the others start), only 20 players are beating his A/TO ratio.

http://bkref.com/tiny/7oASv
 
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Not sure if anybody's noticed, but the day Andre Miller quit on his team, they started a 5-game winning streak.

Dre is all about Dre. Always has been, and it's nice seeing his team play much better now that his whiny ass isn't near the team.

There, I feel better now! :ghoti:
 
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Bullshit, that team is playing possessed because Shaw gave up on his system and started just let them out-energy other teams in the January doldrums. They'll come back down to earth (especially against disciplined teams) and this has nothing to do with Andre.

After seeing CJ look to be competent is anyone else tempted at the thought of Andre & CJ splitting the b/u 1&2 minutes (w/Matthews sliding to 3 some).

Batum & Matthews could each get 32, Lillard could get 36, and the remaining 44 go 22 a piece to Andre and CJ.
 
shamelessblazer said:
Bullshit, that team is playing possessed because Shaw gave up on his system and started just let them out-energy other teams in the January doldrums. They'll come back down to earth (especially against disciplined teams) and this has nothing to do with Andre.

After seeing CJ look to be competent is anyone else tempted at the thought of Andre & CJ splitting the b/u 1&2 minutes (w/Matthews sliding to 3 some).

Batum & Matthews could each get 32, Lillard could get 36, and the remaining 44 go 22 a piece to Andre and CJ.
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It's. Not. Going. To. Happen.
 
Why are so many people wanting an ancient slow pg that can't hit the broadside of a barn from 3?

Don't get me wrong, Miller can set up guys very well, but he doesn't fit in Stotts system.

If guys were saying they wanted Steve Blake, I'd understand (but I wouldn't agree with it, Mo is more talented). But Andre Miller? Talk about putting a square peg into a round hole.
 
Dre is one of the best passers in the game today, he's not quick, not a jump shooter but he is an old school, court aware true pt guard that can post up smaller guards, protect the ball and use the clock really, really well. Bigs thrive when Dre is at the pt. Why we won't sign him....he wants to get paid and he wants more minutes than Mo is getting now. Mo is 2.5mil...people forget how affordable Mo is for what he does. Dre makes any team better. As I said before though, Andre the Compton Los Angeles homeboy is approaching Chauncey Billups point of his career. I think he'll go to LA or NY. He was not happy when they fired Karl and he used to play against Shaw so he looks Shaw right in the eye.
 
The only questions I have:

Can Andre still bring it at or near the level he did when he played for us previously?

And how would his addition affect the team's chemistry?

Either one is a deal breaker for me. I love Andre Miller though. One of my favorite Blazers.
 
riverman said:
Dre is one of the best passers in the game today, he's not quick, not a jump shooter but he is an old school, court aware true pt guard that can post up smaller guards, protect the ball and use the clock really, really well. Bigs thrive when Dre is at the pt. Why we won't sign him....he wants to get paid and he wants more minutes than Mo is getting now. Mo is 2.5mil...people forget how affordable Mo is for what he does. Dre makes any team better. As I said before though, Andre the Compton Los Angeles homeboy is approaching Chauncey Billups point of his career. I think he'll go to LA or NY. He was not happy when they fired Karl and he used to play against Shaw so he looks Shaw right in the eye.
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Except Denver this year, of course. He's a statue on defense, is old, yet thinks he should still be getting major minutes.

Plus there is his entire lack of playoff success. I'd take Mo Williams in the playoffs over Miller.
 
PapaG said:
Except Denver this year, of course. He's a statue on defense, is old, yet thinks he should still be getting major minutes.

Plus there is his entire lack of playoff success. I'd take Mo Williams in the playoffs over Miller.
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Oh I agree, it's a no-brainer with Mo being 6-7 years younger than Dre and a third the price at least. I still think Andre is smarter than you lead to here. He's crafty on defense but he's not gassed at 37..he doesn't need a ton of minutes, he just wants the right minutes. He'd be a great coach. Houston might pick him up. Nobody throws a lob to a 5 like Dre. Nobody makes a better inbound pass than Dre. He's very, very skilled and sometimes playoff success is a crapshoot when you play against the Jordans and Kobes and LeBrons of your era on less talented teams.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
Why are so many people wanting an ancient slow pg that can't hit the broadside of a barn from 3?

Don't get me wrong, Miller can set up guys very well, but he doesn't fit in Stotts system.

If guys were saying they wanted Steve Blake, I'd understand (but I wouldn't agree with it, Mo is more talented). But Andre Miller? Talk about putting a square peg into a round hole.
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I just don't agree with this, we might run a few different sets with dre in there, but stotts largely designed the system dallas used with J-Kidd too. I don't think he's a coach who can't adjust at all. And I think he'd appreciate all the easy buckets our bigs would get, with the floor still adequately spaced with all our 2's and 3's that can shoot, as a trade off for Andre's shooting.
 
shamelessblazer said:
I just don't agree with this, we might run a few different sets with dre in there, but stotts largely designed the system dallas used with J-Kidd too. I don't think he's a coach who can't adjust at all. And I think he'd appreciate all the easy buckets our bigs would get, with the floor still adequately spaced with all our 2's and 3's that can shoot, as a trade off for Andre's shooting.
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Jason Kidd was a very good 3-point shooter with Dallas under the Stotts' system.

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but offense isn't the weakness for this Blazer team at this point. Bringing in an ancient and disgruntled PG who can't shoot and can't defend seems like a bad idea to me.
 
PapaG said:
Except Denver this year, of course. He's a statue on defense, is old, yet thinks he should still be getting major minutes.

Plus there is his entire lack of playoff success. I'd take Mo Williams in the playoffs over Miller.
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Yeah Mo really showed the vet saavy to step up when Lebron froze in the playoffs year after year right? Nope. Cleveland was shit every year in the playoffs and stood around and watched Lebron.
 
PapaG said:
Jason Kidd was a very good 3-point shooter with Dallas under the Stotts' system.
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Maybe if you look at stats, but he was extremely hesitant to shoot them and was usually wide open b/c teams gave him a lot of room. In that sense he still wasn't spreading the floor for a Stotts system. If you watched the games you would know this.

You can't compare a guy like Ray Allen and another guy like Lebron's 3-Pt %, one has hands in his face every time b/c his whole game is the long ball and the other the other team is giving room hoping he'll shoot it.
 
shamelessblazer said:
Yeah Mo really showed the vet saavy to step up when Lebron froze in the playoffs year after year right? Nope. Cleveland was shit every year in the playoffs and stood around and watched Lebron.
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I don't even know what this means.
 
shamelessblazer said:
Maybe if you look at stats, but he was extremely hesitant to shoot them and was usually wide open b/c teams gave him a lot of room. In that sense he still wasn't spreading the floor for a Stotts system. If you watched the games you would know this.

You can't compare a guy like Ray Allen and another guy like Lebron's 3-Pt %, one has hands in his face every time b/c his whole game is the long ball and the other the other team is giving room hoping he'll shoot it.
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Ah, the "watch the games" canard. Yes, you're right. I don't watch any NBA basketball. I am just making up that other teams sag off of Andre Miller and dare him to shoot the ball, which he fails at repeatedly compared to Jason Kidd did on those Dallas teams.
 
PapaG said:
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but offense isn't the weakness for this Blazer team at this point. Bringing in an ancient and disgruntled PG who can't shoot and can't defend seems like a bad idea to me.
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When Mo's shot is on, the offense is fine.

When Mo's shot is off, the offense is shit whenever Batum isn't on the floor. We would be less reliant on riding our starters and the jump shot if we had a true PG like Miller even to play 15 mpg. Getting your bigs some easy buckets helps everyone out, creates a flow when the shots just aren't falling.
 
It means that Mo wasn't ever a great playoff player. No one on those cavs teams were. They needed leadership and all they did was stand around and watch Lebron, occasionally getting hot on wide open shots. Mo's playoff experience isn't going to help us.
 
That's exactly what happens with Dre. But the guy still gets great assist and FG% numbers due to points in the paint. You don't have to have 5 guys on the floor who can shoot 3's, Stotts knows this. There's not even enough room on the floor for that. Dre plays in the post a lot more than most PG's anyways, where he has a huge advantage. Playing with a stretch 4 he's fine.
 
I'm back in the Mo camp now actually. Looking at his Per 24 minutes against other backup guards, he's high reward for his high risk.
 
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