Bucks, Kurt Thomas, Hakim Warrick

[Rastapopoulos]

So, apparently the Bucks are signing Hakim Warrick (which is a source of confusion to some of their fans) which, by my calculations, might push them into luxury territory, even if they don't match Ramon Sessions. So they'll likely want to shed a bit of salary. We can help! Kurt Thomas would be a great addition, methinks, both because he's a veteran and a good lockerroom guy, but also because he's actually useful as a low minutes backup at 4 and 5. And it wouldn't be a big investment, because he's in the last year of his contract.

Meanwhile, in another part of the country, McGrady is saying he's ready to go. Unlikely as this no doubt is, if he is ready to go, then does that make Battier a backup (assuming that Ariza is the starter at the 3) on a bad team in the beginning of the last years of his useful playing time (if you follow that)? Besides which, he's a glue player on a good team, but not a good enough scorer when your team is decimated as Houston's is. Surely Houston will have the decency to free him. Again, we can help!

Two birds with one stone:

The Bucks shed $1.8M in salary (which, if it helps them stay below Luxury territory, is worth double).
The Rockets get a start on rebuilding with three young, cheap players.
We get Battier and Thomas and steamroll to the championship!

 

[Minstrel]

Not willing to trade Bayless for a declining Battier. If I thought it meant "steamrolling to a championship," I'd be willing, but I don't think it remotely means that. I don't think there will be any significant difference between Batum and Battier next season. And Kurt Thomas would be a nice minor addition, but certainly no champion-maker.

 

[axs88]

It looks like Milwaukee is planning on letting Sessions go. Will you be disappointed if he lands in NY for MLE type money? I'm happy we got Miller and everything, but man... I'll brace myself for the threads about KP fucking it up if Sessions leads the league in assists on the Knicks.

 

[Wheels]

It looks like Milwaukee is planning on letting Sessions go. Will you be disappointed if he lands in NY for MLE type money? I'm happy we got Miller and everything, but man... I'll brace myself for the threads about KP fucking it up if Sessions leads the league in assists on the Knicks.

what if we offered picks for a S & T to us.. and an expiring Outlaw?

 

[Tince]

It looks like Milwaukee is planning on letting Sessions go. Will you be disappointed if he lands in NY for MLE type money? I'm happy we got Miller and everything, but man... I'll brace myself for the threads about KP fucking it up if Sessions leads the league in assists on the Knicks.

Sessions may be worth the MLE, but not any more.

Regardless, I don't see how he would have been a good fit in Portland. I'm so thankful he didn't even appear to be on our radar. I think most the Sessions lovers will fade away over the next couple years when they realize he isn't near what people are making him out to be.

 

[Iwatas]

Sessions is an excellent player, Miller's equal in everything but age. I'd do handstands if we could shed Outlaw, Blake and Bayless (and Webster) for Battier and Sessions.

 

[axs88]

Sessions may be worth the MLE, but not any more.

Regardless, I don't see how he would have been a good fit in Portland. I'm so thankful he didn't even appear to be on our radar. I think most the Sessions lovers will fade away over the next couple years when they realize he isn't near what people are making him out to be.

Sessions is pretty much a young Andre Miller (I don't know about Session's post-up game though). If Miller fits, he would have, too. I'm not gonna lose sleep over it, but if Sessions ends up on the Knicks, I guarantee you the Sessions lovers will NOT fade away. (Chris Fucking Duhon averaged 7.2 APG on that team.)

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Sessions may be worth the MLE, but not any more.

Regardless, I don't see how he would have been a good fit in Portland. I'm so thankful he didn't even appear to be on our radar. I think most the Sessions lovers will fade away over the next couple years when they realize he isn't near what people are making him out to be.

Well, except that if he goes to the Knicks, he's going to look very good in D'Antoni's system, as would Sergio. In fact, I have a feeling that the reason that the Blazers never showed a flicker of interest in Sessions is because they saw him as Sergio II.

Re: Batum/Battier. They're different. They're both solid defenders, but Battier is (currently) perhaps the smartest player in the league. He's never been fast (in fact, the knock on him when he was drafted was that he was too slow to guard SFs, let alone SGs) but he was the most effective defender against Roy and against Bryant. We need that veteran smarts. Batum is too quiet, and wouldn't see it as his place to talk people around on defense. That's the kind of thing that makes Battier so valuable. And watching Battier work can only make Batum better.

I think Battier won a couple of games against the Blazers in the playoffs almost by himself. Remember that backbreaking long 3?

And Minstrel? Give it up on Bayless. He is not PG material. He just isn't. And I question his value as a short SG. Do you honestly think that he's going to get any more PT this year than last? If there's a Blazer PG of the future - it ain't him. He's a poor man's Steve Francis, if that. And look what happened to Steve Francis. Come to think of it - what happened to Steve Francis?

 

[axs88]

In fact, I have a feeling that the reason that the Blazers never showed a flicker of interest in Sessions is because they saw him as Sergio II.

I seriously hope not. Sergio had one skill, passing. Sessions can pass, penetrate AND finish and shoot midrange jumpers.

 

[Minstrel]

And Minstrel?

Yes, dear?

Give it up on Bayless. He is not PG material. He just isn't.

Insightful analysis.

I realize you intensely dislike the type of player Bayless is. That's fine, but I'm hardly going to take your aesthetic preferences as conclusive about Bayless' future with this team. As I've said quite a few times, Bayless isn't likely to become a successful traditional point guard and if Portland needed him to become one, I'd be a lot lower on him as a fit for this team.

Portland, however, showed last year that they can be successful without any real point guard play. Blake is a "traditional point guard," but was really not used as one, beyond bringing the ball up the floor. His main duties were to spot up for shots and defend opposing point guards. With a player limited to those duties manning point guard, the team won 54 games.

Bayless has the potential to be an equally dangerous shooter, a much better defender of opposing point guards and, beyond that, toss in some drive-and-dish capability as well. Not enough to be the lone play-maker for an offense but, again, that wouldn't be his role.

So whether you want to call it "point guard," "off-guard" (to Roy's primary ball-handling) or "other guard," it's far from evident that Bayless can't be an excellent complement to Roy in the backcourt.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I seriously hope not. Sergio had one skill, passing. Sessions can pass, penetrate AND finish and shoot midrange jumpers.

Not fair: Sergio can also penetrate! And there are many Bucks fans who think that Sessions can't shoot AT ALL.

 

[Tince]

Well, except that if he goes to the Knicks, he's going to look very good in D'Antoni's system, as would Sergio. In fact, I have a feeling that the reason that the Blazers never showed a flicker of interest in Sessions is because they saw him as Sergio II.

The Sergio comparison might be a bit harsh, but I can see it.

Can you name a PG who can't shoot 3's that has succeed in D'Antoni's system? I remember Marcus Banks going there and people thinking he'd be an incredible backup.

 

[axs88]

The Sergio comparison might be a bit harsh, but I can see it.

Can you name a PG who can't shoot 3's that has succeed in D'Antoni's system? I remember Marcus Banks going there and people thinking he'd be an incredible backup.

Well, there hasn't been any except for Banks. But he couldn't succeed in any other system either.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Yes, dear?

You've got some 'splainin' to do!

Insightful analysis.

You're too kind! At least it wasn't inciteful.

I realize you intensely dislike the type of player Bayless is.

I was about to protest, but it's true, I do. Even players like that whom I like as "characters" - most obviously Agent Zero, but also Eddie House, I wouldn't want on my team. Maybe it's from playing pickup ball with players like that. It gets pretty tiresome pretty quick.

That's fine, but I'm hardly going to take your aesthetic preferences as conclusive about Bayless' future with this team.

I think that's very unreasonable of you. Fine: how about this: Nate is the coach, and clearly Nate dislikes Bayless's game even more than I do. I would've played Bayless a fair bit in the Houston series just because nobody except Brandon was creating offense, and you'd think it would've been nice to draw some fouls on some people.

As I've said quite a few times, Bayless isn't likely to become a successful traditional point guard and if Portland needed him to become one, I'd be a lot lower on him as a fit for this team.

That's like saying "Bayless isn't about to become seven foot tall and with the ability to juggle Sherman Tanks. Or that George W. Bush was the worst president in at least 100 years. Nobody's going to disagree with that. Say something a bit bolder!

Portland, however, showed last year that they can be successful without any real point guard play. Blake is a "traditional point guard," but was really not used as one, beyond bringing the ball up the floor. His main duties were to spot up for shots and defend opposing point guards. With a player limited to those duties manning point guard, the team won 54 games.

Fine, but
1. Rudy can do that.
2. Bayless can't shoot.
3. Bayless can't pass AT ALL. He's got poor court vision for a shooting guard, let alone a PG. Blake at least holds the assists record at Maryland.

Bayless has the potential to be an equally dangerous shooter,

... and an astronaut, and a Nobel physicist, and a star of the stage and screen, and Lord High Consulate of the United Federation of Planets... Ain't potential grand?

a much better defender of opposing point guards

No. He's actually a poor defender. With arms as stumpy as his, he needs to be the kind of defender who uses his head. Instead he just sticks to his guy like glue and gets rubbed off on picks with no trouble at all. He's Sasha Vujacic! And you know what an insult that is to me (and all right-thinking people).

and, beyond that, toss in some drive-and-dish capability as well.

Drive yes. Dish, no.

Bayless is a scorer off the bench or AT BEST the 2G alongside the Next Jason Kidd (whenever he appears).

Not enough to be the lone play-maker for an offense but, again, that wouldn't be his role.

His skillset is so narrow that there just isn't a role for him on a team this deep.

So whether you want to call it "point guard," "off-guard" (to Roy's primary ball-handling) or "other guard," it's far from evident that Bayless can't be an excellent complement to Roy in the backcourt.

Evidence is such a relative thing. What is evident to me obviously isn't to others. But don't hate me for my incredible insight. Or incite.

 

[Tince]

Well, there hasn't been any except for Banks. But he couldn't succeed in any other system either.

Do you think it is an accident there hasn't been one? Banks never worked. Marbury didn't work the first time and wasn't given a chance the second time.

In his system, you need to have four 3pt shooters around the perimeter at all times to go with a big who can slash down the middle when help comes. Sessions would allow teams to put a player like Batum on him, drop back to the middle of the key, and use their wing span to fill most the passing lanes.

 

[MAS RipCity]

It looks like Milwaukee is planning on letting Sessions go. Will you be disappointed if he lands in NY for MLE type money? I'm happy we got Miller and everything, but man... I'll brace myself for the threads about KP fucking it up if Sessions leads the league in assists on the Knicks.

Andre>>Sessions..Kp got the right guy.

 

[Minstrel]

You're too kind! At least it wasn't inciteful.

You excite more than incite. At least, when it comes to me.

That's like saying "Bayless isn't about to become seven foot tall and with the ability to juggle Sherman Tanks. Or that George W. Bush was the worst president in at least 100 years. Nobody's going to disagree with that. Say something a bit bolder!

Well, contained within that was a claim that I thought you consider bold...that Portland doesn't need that sort of point guard. Generally that draws objections from you. But now you apparently take it as accepted wisdom.

Fine, but
1. Rudy can do that.
2. Bayless can't shoot.
3. Bayless can't pass AT ALL. He's got poor court vision for a shooting guard, let alone a PG. Blake at least holds the assists record at Maryland.

Rudy can't defend point guards adequately, no. While Bayless is a poor team defender right now, he's a better man defender of point guards than any other guard on the roster and should improve with experience.

Bayless shot very well in college. Considering he was missing open shots last season, I don't think the change of level is what caused the problem. Even if he struggled with his shot in the sporadic minutes he received, I think good shooting is part of his skillset.

Bayless can pass adequately for a non-point guard. Both in the NBA and in this year's summer league, he showed the ability to drive and find teammates for open shots. He was inconsistent, but he's also young and inexperienced.

The rest of your post was merely meant to incite. I've cited and responded to the key points.

 

[axs88]

Do you think it is an accident there hasn't been one? Banks never worked. Marbury didn't work the first time and wasn't given a chance the second time.

In his system, you need to have four 3pt shooters around the perimeter at all times to go with a big who can slash down the middle when help comes. Sessions would allow teams to put a player like Batum on him, drop back to the middle of the key, and use their wing span to fill most the passing lanes.

I don't doubt he prefers a PG who can stick the 3, so no, I don't think it is a coincidence. And what you're saying makes sense but why are they pursuing Sessions then? I think D'Antoni is creative enough to figure that out. I guess we'll just have to see.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Well, contained within that was a claim that I thought you consider bold...that Portland doesn't need that sort of point guard. Generally that draws objections from you. But now you apparently take it as accepted wisdom.

You've got to pick your battles. And with the signing of Andre Miller, I consider this battle won.

Bayless can pass adequately for a non-point guard.

Bayless can pass adequately for a non-guard.

Both in the NBA and in this year's summer league, he showed the ability to drive and find teammates for open shots. He was inconsistent, but he's also young and inexperienced.

I watched Summer League (I actually paid $15 to do so, God help me - Brandon Jennings was worth it almost by himself, which is a good thing, because I should've been paid money to watch the Blazers) and I WANTED this to be true. And in the first ten minutes of the first game I thought that maybe it was. But then reality set in and I realized that all he could do was EITHER give up the ball outside the arc OR drive. I don't think he drove-and-dished once. Once he gets a head of steam it's like the rest of the court disappears and only the hoop exists.

 

[Minstrel]

You've got to pick your battles. And with the signing of Andre Miller, I consider this battle won.

I don't think so. As I've said before, a traditional point guard isn't a negative...it simply isn't necessary. If anything, the Blazers' actions reinforced that. Their first two attempted acquisitions, Turkoglu and Millsap, weren't traditional point guards (please, no jokes about Millsap being a better point guard than Bayless, that would be beneath you!). When neither of those players worked out, they took the best player left on the market. And I'm happy with Miller because he's a good player who will add production. I just don't think a Miller-like player is required.

Bayless can pass adequately for a non-guard.

I see what you did there. I don't agree with your implied claim though, of course, you're literally correct. A prime John Stockton could also pass adequately compared to non-guards.

I watched Summer League (I actually paid $15 to do so, God help me - Brandon Jennings was worth it almost by himself, which is a good thing, because I should've been paid money to watch the Blazers) and I WANTED this to be true. And in the first ten minutes of the first game I thought that maybe it was. But then reality set in and I realized that all he could do was EITHER give up the ball outside the arc OR drive. I don't think he drove-and-dished once. Once he gets a head of steam it's like the rest of the court disappears and only the hoop exists.

I watched without paying, yar matey. Also, I saw Bayless' play in the real national association for basketball. We'll have to disagree to agree on this (I certainly disagree!). He does have some "head down, get out of my way" tendencies, but the kid is young and is used to correctly determining that he is the best option on the floor (as he was in the summer league). I definitely saw the ability to draw defensive attention and then find teammates for open shots. Open shots that weren't always converted into baskets, but open shots nonetheless.

Bold claim and bonding moment: He'll never be John Stockton.

Bold claim and inciteful: He might become Tony Parker.

 

[MrJayremmie]

We should do a S&T for Sessions...

Outlaw and Bayless and Blake for Sessions and a 1st?

 

[Minstrel]

We should do a S&T for Sessions...

Outlaw and Bayless and Blake for Sessions and a 1st?

I'd happily do a deal like Outlaw, Bayless and Blake for Sessions and Thomas (I like the Kurt Thomas part of Rasta's plan, I just don't want to give up Bayless unless Sessions is coming back). I think Thomas' value right away is a better fit for Portland's plans to contend starting this season and the Bucks would rather keep their draft pick.

 

[Tince]

I don't doubt he prefers a PG who can stick the 3, so no, I don't think it is a coincidence. And what you're saying makes sense but why are they pursuing Sessions then? I think D'Antoni is creative enough to figure that out. I guess we'll just have to see.

They're pursuing anything that moves. Hell, I heard they're going after Allen Iverson.

 

[brsinepyce]

Trade Machine said that we would be worse off with battier and thomas. LOL