Exclusive Building a detached deck

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

I would never get one for a gazebo even if it was required. I don't want to justify the existence of someones government job.

Then don’t turn on the tap, flush a toilet , borrow books, etc, etc. Just sayin’......but I too hate permits.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I would never get one for a gazebo even if it was required. I don't want to justify the existence of someones government job.

If someone gets hurt on unpermitted work on your property or there is a fire, even unrelated to the unpermitted work, your homeowners policy might not cover you.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Looks good. Were you required to get a permit?

No--permits are only required for detached outdoor structures over 200 sq ft, if the floor is 30+ inches above the ground, or if the top plate is more than 10ft higher than the flooring surface. We ensured we remained below all those figures.

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm terrible about taking pics, but I can steal a few from my wife's Facebook.

looking pretty good!

I would have done a couple of things differently, but that's minor and insignificant

 

[PtldPlatypus]

looking pretty good!

I would have done a couple of things differently, but that's minor and insignificant

Always willing to hear feedback. I love to learn.

 

[wizenheimer]

Always willing to hear feedback. I love to learn.

there are several different ways to do things, and many have maybe/maybe-not quality

for instance: usually you glue and screw plywood decks to floors. That eliminates squeaking (for the most part) and makes for a more solid diaphragm. But if you glue, and subsequently need to replace a part of the floor, having glued it will make replacing that section much more difficult. And an exterior floor would have a higher chance of needing some replacement. Of course, if you glue down indoor/outdoor carpet, that probably makes a glued/not-glued floor irrelevant (maybe the carpet can be attached without glue?)

one thing I would suggest: I'd have some reservations about those underside brackets you used to tie the braces to the posts. They don't look sufficient to me. But I would probably wait a a year to see how things are after 2 or 3 different seasons. Along those lines, keep track of the wind conditions and this winter, on a really windy day, go out and stand in the structure and feel how much your roof is flexing and racking your posts in the wind. That will tell you if you need to beef up those braces. Of course, if it's a really really windy day you might need a pilot's license....

 

[Hoopguru]

Then don’t turn on the tap, flush a toilet , borrow books, etc, etc. Just sayin’......but I too hate permits.

lol....I am for limited government. Anything that's necessary and help's people im good with. But certain required permits bother me. I lived in an area where I had to get approval/permit at a cost to paint my house if the color was approved or cut a tree down on my property. I had a neighbor years ago turn me into the county because I built an 8x10 shed that was next to a good neighbor fence in the corner because it was about 8 feet tall at the hip of the roof and he could see it from his house>
County guy came out and gave me 30 days to move it away from his view or Id be fined big time. Well, I moved it to the other side of my back yard and not in a corner of property. Bad taste!

 

[barfo]

I had a neighbor years ago turn me into the county because I built an 8x10 shed that was next to a good neighbor fence in the corner because it was about 8 feet tall at the hip of the roof and he could see it from his house>
County guy came out and gave me 30 days to move it away from his view or Id be fined big time. Well, I moved it to the other side of my back yard and not in a corner of property. Bad taste!

So do you believe there should be no rules about what you do on your property, or you just don't like that particular rule?

Would you have been ok with the rule if it allowed your shed but disallowed even taller sheds? Or would it be ok if your neighbor had built a 100' tall shed?

Do all shed lives matter?

barfo

 

[PtldPlatypus]

one thing I would suggest: I'd have some reservations about those underside brackets you used to tie the braces to the posts. They don't look sufficient to me. But I would probably wait a a year to see how things are after 2 or 3 different seasons. Along those lines, keep track of the wind conditions and this winter, on a really windy day, go out and stand in the structure and feel how much your roof is flexing and racking your posts in the wind. That will tell you if you need to beef up those braces. Of course, if it's a really really windy day you might need a pilot's license....

What would you recommend I do differently with the angled braces? Use longer braces (basically have them meet instead of have space between them)? Use 4x6s instead of 4x4s?

 

[e_blazer]

What would you recommend I do differently with the angled braces? Use longer braces (basically have them meet instead of have space between them)? Use 4x6s instead of 4x4s?

Get some Amish folks to help:

 

[Hoopguru]

So do you believe there should be no rules about what you do on your property, or you just don't like that particular rule?

Would you have been ok with the rule if it allowed your shed but disallowed even taller sheds? Or would it be ok if your neighbor had built a 100' tall shed?

Do all shed lives matter?

barfo

I was mostly bent about being asked to move a shed that was just over the top of the good neighbor fence which was 6'.
I would complain or certainly call the county if he had done the same. In fact where I live now I can people sheds, tiny houses, tampolines, swing sets. Non of it bothers me.
The inspector was an ass on a power trip, no different than any other government employee that like their power.

You asked so let me ask you. Would you agree with getting approval at a cost to paint your house, even if it was a neutral color? How about cutting down a tree that was damaging your house, would you like to pay a fee for an approval to do so on your own property?

 

[wizenheimer]

What would you recommend I do differently with the angled braces? Use longer braces (basically have them meet instead of have space between them)? Use 4x6s instead of 4x4s?

you could use a longer metal bracket on one side of the post and braces that overlaps both, but you'd need to do it where the brace meets the beam too. But maybe, at this point, the most clean and attractive solution would be a PT 2X4 on the outside or inside of the posts/braces/beams that parallels the brace but completely overlaps the post and roof beam (basically make a 2-piece, 5" brace). You can cut a bevel on the lower end next to the post so it looks more attractive. And leave it a quarter inch shy of the outside of the post to make it look even better

that would mitigate some of the deflection you will get in the wind. Keep in mind that the weight of your finished roof (including beams and rafters) will be substantial. That's inevitable. So, when the wind moves that roof, and it will, that momentum will transfer to those braces. Don't panic at some movement, it can't be avoided. You just want to mitigate it as much as you can without impacting the aesthetic nature of your structure. And, to your credit it has some nice aesthetics right now

 

[SlyPokerDog]

you could use a longer metal bracket on one side of the post and braces that overlaps both, but you'd need to do it where the brace meets the beam too. But maybe, at this point, the most clean and attractive solution would be a PT 2X4 on the outside or inside of the posts/braces/beams that parallels the brace but completely overlaps the post and roof beam (basically make a 2-piece, 5" brace). You can cut a bevel on the lower end next to the post so it looks more attractive. And leave it a quarter inch shy of the outside of the post to make it look even better

that would mitigate some of the deflection you will get in the wind. Keep in mind that the weight of your finished roof (including beams and rafters) will be substantial. That's inevitable. So, when the wind moves that roof, and it will, that momentum will transfer to those braces. Don't panic at some movement, it can't be avoided. You just want to mitigate it as much as you can without impacting the aesthetic nature of your structure. And, to your credit it has some nice aesthetics right now

 

[PtldPlatypus]

you could use a longer metal bracket on one side of the post and braces that overlaps both, but you'd need to do it where the brace meets the beam too. But maybe, at this point, the most clean and attractive solution would be a PT 2X4 on the outside or inside of the posts/braces/beams that parallels the brace but completely overlaps the post and roof beam (basically make a 2-piece, 5" brace). You can cut a bevel on the lower end next to the post so it looks more attractive. And leave it a quarter inch shy of the outside of the post to make it look even better

that would mitigate some of the deflection you will get in the wind. Keep in mind that the weight of your finished roof (including beams and rafters) will be substantial. That's inevitable. So, when the wind moves that roof, and it will, that momentum will transfer to those braces. Don't panic at some movement, it can't be avoided. You just want to mitigate it as much as you can without impacting the aesthetic nature of your structure. And, to your credit it has some nice aesthetics right now

Excellent--thank you. That makes a lot of sense. And we appreciate the compliment on the appearance.

 

[barfo]

You asked so let me ask you. Would you agree with getting approval at a cost to paint your house, even if it was a neutral color?

That sounds like an HOA thing, rather than a government regulation? Would be curious where it was, if government.
No, I wouldn't like that particular regulation.

How about cutting down a tree that was damaging your house, would you like to pay a fee for an approval to do so on your own property?

Generally, I believe there should be regulations about removing or otherwise abusing trees. If the house predated the tree, I could see a reason for allowing removal without penalty. But if someone built the house too close to a mature tree, I think we should allow the house to be removed without penalty.

barfo

 

[Lanny]

Looks good. Were you required to get a permit?

Good question
While I was not required to get a permit to build my tool shed, I think that was because of the small size. This gazebo looks to be pretty large.

 

[Lanny]

That sounds like an HOA thing, rather than a government regulation? Would be curious where it was, if government.
No, I wouldn't like that particular regulation.



Generally, I believe there should be regulations about removing or otherwise abusing trees. If the house predated the tree, I could see a reason for allowing removal without penalty. But if someone built the house too close to a mature tree, I think we should allow the house to be removed without penalty.

barfo

That was not a part of the building code when I knew the code back in the 90s. Why would it be in a code designed to protect the public. The code does not protect the public from eyesores, because it was never part of their charter unless it's been drastically changed. I'm thinking that the ten foot walls might make it a required building code feature. I know that a fence over 6 feet tall requires a permit.

 

[wizenheimer]

Excellent--thank you. That makes a lot of sense. And we appreciate the compliment on the appearance.

I'll expand a little further on my thinking:

I can't tell from the picture, but those brackets you are using look like they have the room for 4 or 6 nails/screws/bolts, maybe 8.

and there are a couple of issues to consider. One, is that you'd ideally want the positive connections to have a bit of distance from the neutral axis of the structural members. You have 4X4 for post and braces so the neutral axis of each is 1.75" from surface. Draw those two lines in your mind. Then think about your fasteners and picture where the head and barrel of those fasteners are in relation to the neutral axis of each member. The closer they are to the neutral axis, the less effective they are

then, think about which direction the force of movement will be, and what you have to resist it. In this case it's the bracket, but physically, it's really the fasteners securing the bracket. And in the case of your application, the force of any flex will be parallel to the grain of the wood. Not only is parallel to grain resistance weaker, it's also more prone to accumulated movement weakening the wood around the fasteners.

that's why I suggested that 2X4. Yeah, the nails/screws/bolts you use in the brace will be moving, slightly, with the grain. But those fasteners you use in the post and the beam will be perpendicular to the grain. You'd think those would be at 45 degrees from perpendicular but that's not the case in terms of shear force. It will be close to perpendicular, and that's to the better. Whatever fasteners you use should penetrate thru the neutral axis. On those brackets of yours, you should have 3" fasteners. If you have 5" of wood using the 2X4 + 4X4 you should have 4 1/2" fasteners. Pre-drill about 1/2 the size of the fastener to keep from splitting the wood

if you use the 2X4's, keep in mind the neutral axis when fastening. Your fasteners should be closer to the edge of the members than the center. The drawback of course is that on the 2X4, flex will tend to weaken friction resistance over time, but that's counted in years, maybe a couple of decades. But that's still a shorter span of time than when the Blazers will win their next championship, although Olshey and Stotts may still have their jobs

Simpson Strong-Tie makes really good, engineered straps, but they would be pretty unsightly, and painting them fails pretty quickly, even with an oil base paint

 

[Lanny]

I'll expand a little further on my thinking:

I can't tell from the picture, but those brackets you are using look like they have the room for 4 or 6 nails/screws/bolts, maybe 8.

and there are a couple of issues to consider. One, is that you'd ideally want the positive connections to have a bit of distance from the neutral axis of the structural members. You have 4X4 for post and braces so the neutral axis of each is 1.75" from surface. Draw those two lines in your mind. Then think about your fasteners and picture where the head and barrel of those fasteners are in relation to the neutral axis of each member. The closer they are to the neutral axis, the less effective they are

then, think about which direction the force of movement will be, and what you have to resist it. In this case it's the bracket, but physically, it's really the fasteners securing the bracket. And in the case of your application, the force of any flex will be parallel to the grain of the wood. Not only is parallel to grain resistance weaker, it's also more prone to accumulated movement weakening the wood around the fasteners.

that's why I suggested that 2X4. Yeah, the nails/screws/bolts you use in the brace will be moving, slightly, with the grain. But those fasteners you use in the post and the beam will be perpendicular to the grain. You'd think those would be at 45 degrees from perpendicular but that's not the case in terms of shear force. It will be close to perpendicular, and that's to the better. Whatever fasteners you use should penetrate thru the neutral axis. On those brackets of yours, you should have 3" fasteners. If you have 5" of wood using the 2X4 + 4X4 you should have 4 1/2" fasteners. Pre-drill about 1/2 the size of the fastener to keep from splitting the wood

if you use the 2X4's, keep in mind the neutral axis when fastening. Your fasteners should be closer to the edge of the members than the center. The drawback of course is that on the 2X4, flex will tend to weaken friction resistance over time, but that's counted in years, maybe a couple of decades. But that's still a shorter span of time than when the Blazers will win their next championship, although Olshey and Stotts may still have their jobs

Simpson Strong-Tie makes really good, engineered straps, but they would be pretty unsightly, and painting them fails pretty quickly, even with an oil base paint

What are you, some kind of civil engineer? Sounds like something someone would need to know from a statics general engineering course.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

What are you, some kind of civil engineer? Sounds like something someone would need to know from a statics general engineering course.

He's built all the best stages at Portland area strip clubs.

If it can handle a stripper it can handle @PtldPlatypus!

 

[THE HCP]

I'll expand a little further on my thinking:

I can't tell from the picture, but those brackets you are using look like they have the room for 4 or 6 nails/screws/bolts, maybe 8.

and there are a couple of issues to consider. One, is that you'd ideally want the positive connections to have a bit of distance from the neutral axis of the structural members. You have 4X4 for post and braces so the neutral axis of each is 1.75" from surface. Draw those two lines in your mind. Then think about your fasteners and picture where the head and barrel of those fasteners are in relation to the neutral axis of each member. The closer they are to the neutral axis, the less effective they are

then, think about which direction the force of movement will be, and what you have to resist it. In this case it's the bracket, but physically, it's really the fasteners securing the bracket. And in the case of your application, the force of any flex will be parallel to the grain of the wood. Not only is parallel to grain resistance weaker, it's also more prone to accumulated movement weakening the wood around the fasteners.

that's why I suggested that 2X4. Yeah, the nails/screws/bolts you use in the brace will be moving, slightly, with the grain. But those fasteners you use in the post and the beam will be perpendicular to the grain. You'd think those would be at 45 degrees from perpendicular but that's not the case in terms of shear force. It will be close to perpendicular, and that's to the better. Whatever fasteners you use should penetrate thru the neutral axis. On those brackets of yours, you should have 3" fasteners. If you have 5" of wood using the 2X4 + 4X4 you should have 4 1/2" fasteners. Pre-drill about 1/2 the size of the fastener to keep from splitting the wood

if you use the 2X4's, keep in mind the neutral axis when fastening. Your fasteners should be closer to the edge of the members than the center. The drawback of course is that on the 2X4, flex will tend to weaken friction resistance over time, but that's counted in years, maybe a couple of decades. But that's still a shorter span of time than when the Blazers will win their next championship, although Olshey and Stotts may still have their jobs

Simpson Strong-Tie makes really good, engineered straps, but they would be pretty unsightly, and painting them fails pretty quickly, even with an oil base paint

What?

 

[Hoopguru]

That sounds like an HOA thing, rather than a government regulation? Would be curious where it was, if government.
No, I wouldn't like that particular regulation.
Happy Valley


Generally, I believe there should be regulations about removing or otherwise abusing trees. If the house predated the tree, I could see a reason for allowing removal without penalty. But if someone built the house too close to a mature tree, I think we should allow the house to be removed without penalty.

barfo

 

[Lanny]

He's built all the best stages at Portland area strip clubs.

If it can handle a stripper it can handle @PtldPlatypus!

I should get to know him better because I like a good strip show better than anyone, well, maybe not better than you. No one likes them better than you, I'll concede that.

 

[Lanny]

I know that Portland, Washington county and the city of Lake Oswego all require approval for removal of live mature trees. I think the state does also. Dead trees are fair game.

 

[wizenheimer]

What are you, some kind of civil engineer? Sounds like something someone would need to know from a statics general engineering course.

I have a civil engineering degree but I never went thru the EIT or PE process. Just kind of fell into the nearly brainless swing-a-hammer construction niche. I might have been drunk when I fell into construction but that's just a rumor. But the route I took I was self-employed for nearly 37 years. Beats and office/drafting-table job with an asshole boss all to hell.

and no, I've never been under or on top of a stage at a strip club. I may have spent some nights under a table though....again, just a rumor

 

[wizenheimer]

What?

just focus on the part about a strip club

 

[Lanny]

I have a civil engineering degree but I never went thru the EIT or PE process. Just kind of fell into the nearly brainless swing-a-hammer construction niche. I might have been drunk when I fell into construction but that's just a rumor. But the route I took I was self-employed for nearly 37 years. Beats and office/drafting-table job with an asshole boss all to hell.

and no, I've never been under or on top of a stage at a strip club. I may have spent some nights under a table though....again, just a rumor

I got my EIT and my PE from two states. Why? I did it for the prestige since it's only had significance in one job and that was a brief one. I guess it looked good on my resume.
I had the three term sequence of Statics, Dynamics and Strengths of Materials nearly half a century ago but you made it all come flooding back.

 

[wizenheimer]

I got my EIT and my PE from two states. Why? I did it for the prestige since it's only had significance in one job and that was a brief one. I guess it looked good on my resume.
I had the three term sequence of Statics, Dynamics and Strengths of Materials nearly half a century ago but you made it all come flooding back.

yeah, the flashbacks can be eye-rolling. Especially remembering all those fucking hours of problem-solving the professors dreamed up as torture. There was a conspiracy among those professors to because there was a recurring bad-dream problem they all used dealing with a tether-ball. Sometimes the rope would be 12 feet long, or 9 feet or 13.37762 feet, and the rope's diameter would vary from 1/4" to 5/8". Sometimes the pole was 3 inches in diameter or 2.44 inches or a 4X4; and sometimes the pole wasn't perfectly plumb but something like 4 degrees off-plumb. Sometimes the whole shitshiree was at sea level or a 7400 feet elevation with the PSI in the ball changing problem to problem. Take all that bullshit and start figuring forces at certain points depending on initial applied force to the ball....you know, some schmuck hitting the ball. What kind of force would it take to break the pole at 5644' elevation if the pole had 9.2 inch cross-section of Doug Fir Larch being pulled by a 13.33 foot cable 8 degrees off perpendicular....you get the point right? this was torture. Trot out your moment of inertia calculations and scratch out some force diagrams. Fuck those guys....no wonder I got drunk and said "yeah, just give me a hammer"....

 

[Lanny]

yeah, the flashbacks can be eye-rolling. Especially remembering all those fucking hours of problem-solving the professors dreamed up as torture. There was a conspiracy among those professors to because there was a recurring bad-dream problem they all used dealing with a tether-ball. Sometimes the rope would be 12 feet long, or 9 feet or 13.37762 feet, and the rope's diameter would vary from 1/4" to 5/8". Sometimes the pole was 3 inches in diameter or 2.44 inches or a 4X4; and sometimes the pole wasn't perfectly plumb but something like 4 degrees off-plumb. Sometimes the whole shitshiree was at sea level or a 7400 feet elevation with the PSI in the ball changing problem to problem. Take all that bullshit and start figuring forces at certain points depending on initial applied force to the ball....you know, some schmuck hitting the ball. What kind of force would it take to break the pole at 5644' elevation if the pole had 9.2 inch cross-section of Doug Fir Larch being pulled by a 13.33 foot cable 8 degrees off perpendicular....you get the point right? this was torture. Trot out your moment of inertia calculations and scratch out some force diagrams. Fuck those guys....no wonder I got drunk and said "yeah, just give me a hammer"....

Holy crap, that reminds me of physics. What is the angular momentum of a dumbell flying in a parabolic arc?

 

[PtldPlatypus]