OT Bulls, Wade agree to buyout

[Denny Crane]

http://www.espn.com/espn/print?id=20809443

We have no room to sign him to a big deal, but I suspect he's going to take something close to vet minimum to sign wherever he ends up.

 

[Denny Crane]

My bad, he already signed with the Cavs.

Super teams.

 

[Denny Crane]

Wade, LeBron reunion, along with DRose, Isaiah Thomas, Jae Crowder, and Love.

 

[Bronzewyrm]

#MadCow

 

[Stevenson]

Why would Chicago agree to this? I don't get it.

 

[Denny Crane]

"It would be most costly for the Cavs, as they would pay $10.5 million in luxury tax if they added Wade."

I think he's worth the $10.5M tax + $2.5M salary for a finals team.

 

[Scalma]

"It would be most costly for the Cavs, as they would pay $10.5 million in luxury tax if they added Wade."

I think he's worth the $10.5M tax + $2.5M salary for a finals team.

This is why we should add Shump. Hell most likely be out of the rotation. 10m + tax for a guy not playing isn't ideal for any team or owner. In Portland Shump could at the very least be in the rotation. He also has a player option for next year so we might not even have to worry about repeat tax. I've also looked at the players that would fall in our TPE range that teams would potentially dump. Shump is pretty much the caliber of player that'd be available. No real reason to wait.

Dame
CJ
Harkless
Aminu
Nurkic

CJ
Shumpert
Turner
Swanigan
Davis

I like that.

 

[Bronzewyrm]

This is why we should add Shump. Hell most likely be out of the rotation. 10m + tax for a guy not playing isn't ideal for any team or owner. In Portland Shump could at the very least be in the rotation. He also has a player option for next year so we might not even have to worry about repeat tax. I've also looked at the players that would fall in our TPE range that teams would potentially dump. Shump is pretty much the caliber of player that'd be available. No real reason to wait.

Dame
CJ
Harkless
Aminu
Nurkic

CJ
Shumpert
Turner
Swanigan
Davis

I like that.

I can dig. I just don't see him cracking the rotation at the 2. We have patty C and Laymen. might as well trade one of them off. it would be hard to give minutes to everybody, and being 6'5" I don't see him playing the 3 much either. For the money, its a hard sell for me.

Bronze.

 

[Scalma]

I can dig. I just don't see him cracking the rotation at the 2. We have patty C and Laymen. might as well trade one of them off. it would be hard to give minutes to everybody, and being 6'5" I don't see him playing the 3 much either. For the money, its a hard sell for me.

Bronze.

Shump is a guy thats locked up Paul George in the playoffs. He's got the length and strength to guard small forwards. Listing Pat C as an option only helps my case for Shump lol. He's underrated and would really help our team and bring some stability to the second unit (and possibly even start.) That's worth the 10m + luxury tax.

 

[blue9]

Shump is a guy thats locked up Paul George in the playoffs. He's got the length and strength to guard small forwards. Listing Pat C as an option only helps my case for Shump lol. He's underrated and would really help our team and bring some stability to the second unit (and possibly even start) That's worth the 10m + luxury tax.

If CLE included their 2019 draft pick in the deal I'd trade TPE for Shumpert.

 

[Denny Crane]

I don't see the value of Shump, given this roster, the make up of the league, and our salary situation.

Sure, he's a fine bench player, or even pinch starter. He's not going to take us to some elite level as a team. If NO is going to pay the LT, I hope he goes after a much better player who can make a much bigger difference.

Otherwise, I expect NO to shave salary to get us under the LT.

It's not about the money/tax, it's about the taxpayer rules. Is this roster one worthy of limiting our MLE next year? Is it worthy of being one of 3 of 4 seasons in the LT that bring on really harsh trade and other roster maneuver limiting rules?

If we can trade for Shump and stay under the LT, by all means.

 

[Scalma]

If CLE included their 2019 draft pick in the deal I'd trade TPE for Shumpert.

I'd even do it if Cleveland added a second and took on say Connaughton.

 

[Scalma]

I don't see the value of Shump, given this roster, the make up of the league, and our salary situation.

Sure, he's a fine bench player, or even pinch starter. He's not going to take us to some elite level as a team. If NO is going to pay the LT, I hope he goes after a much better player who can make a much bigger difference.

Otherwise, I expect NO to shave salary to get us under the LT.

It's not about the money/tax, it's about the taxpayer rules. Is this roster one worthy of limiting our MLE next year? Is it worthy of being one of 3 of 4 seasons in the LT that bring on really harsh trade and other roster maneuver limiting rules?

If we can trade for Shump and stay under the LT, by all means.

I think the key is to avoid the repeater tax and I don't think Shump will impact that because if he plays well he will opt out next summer. Worst case scenario he's an expiring contract. It's worth the risk imo

 

[Denny Crane]

I think the key is to avoid the repeater tax and I don't think Shump will impact that because if he plays well he will opt out next summer. Worst case scenario he's an expiring contract. It's worth the risk imo

The repeater tax is exactly why you don't want to pay the LT this year. It puts us in a box for the next 3 seasons, where we might want to pay the LT in all 3 of those for a much better chance to win it all.

If we use it this year and two years from now, we're screwed by the repeater rules if we're contending in 3 years.

It makes far more sense to pay the LT next season, when Nurk's big contract should kick in. The reason to pay the tax at that point is to keep our big 3 together.

 

[Scalma]

The repeater tax is exactly why you don't want to pay the LT this year. It puts us in a box for the next 3 seasons, where we might want to pay the LT in all 3 of those for a much better chance to win it all.

If we use it this year and two years from now, we're screwed by the repeater rules if we're contending in 3 years.

It makes far more sense to pay the LT next season, when Nurk's big contract should kick in. The reason to pay the tax at that point is to keep our big 3 together.

We're already paying the tax this year, no?

 

[Denny Crane]

We're already paying the tax this year, no?

Not yet.

We're slightly over, but have until the last day of the season to get under the LT.

Use the TPE and we have to shed $12M-$15M in salaries to get under, vs. something like $3M now.

 

[Scalma]

Not yet.

We're slightly over, but have until the last day of the season to get under the LT.

Use the TPE and we have to shed $12M-$15M in salaries to get under, vs. something like $3M now.

And how much would we have to clear next year? Include Shumps 11m

 

[Denny Crane]

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/portland-trail-blazers/cap/



That $4.4M includes the contracts of Archie Goodwin and Isaiah Briscoe, about $2.3M combined.

It looks to me like NO maneuvered to be able to fit Morrow under the LT, after we trade Ed Davis for cap space. Something like that.

 

[Scalma]

the reality is any competitive team will be paying luxury tax. Owners a lot cheaper than Paul Allen are paying it, so I don't see why we should be overly concerned with it, especially when we already have our foundational building blocks on the roster.

 

[Denny Crane]

And how much would we have to clear next year? Include Shumps 11m

Add $11M, add $15M for Nurk (that's ~$23M - his $8M cap hold).

$104M of the $123M for Nurk, Dame, CJ, Turner, and Shump.

Another $20M for Leonard and Mo.

Another $10M for Aminu, Collins, Swanigan.

That's 9 guys. I think we'd want to sign Vonleh, and likely he'll get a raise if he progresses this season.

&c

 

[Scalma]

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/portland-trail-blazers/cap/

View attachment 16376

That $4.4M includes the contracts of Archie Goodwin and Isaiah Briscoe, about $2.3M combined.

It looks to me like NO maneuvered to be able to fit Morrow under the LT, after we trade Ed Davis for cap space. Something like that.

Hopefully we can just find someone to take Meyers instead and not send back equal salary. Davis seems like an integral part of the locker room and if he plays like he did two years ago, the team as well.

 

[Scalma]

View attachment 16378

Add $11M, add $15M for Nurk (that's ~$23M - his $8M cap hold).

$104M of the $123M for Nurk, Dame, CJ, Turner, and Shump.

Another $20M for Leonard and Mo.

Another $10M for Aminu, Collins, Swanigan.

That's 9 guys. I think we'd want to sign Vonleh, and likely he'll get a raise if he progresses this season.

&c

I kinda disagree about Vonleh. I think he's in the same boat as Plumlee was. I don't think the team will pay him. Vonleh is trade bait imo. His replacements are already on the roster.

 

[Denny Crane]

the reality is any competitive team will be paying luxury tax. Owners a lot cheaper than Paul Allen are paying it, so I don't see why we should be overly concerned with it, especially when we already have our foundational building blocks on the roster.

I think PA and NO will gladly pay the LT, just that it has to be done strategically.

Only two teams paid the LT last year: the Cavs and the Clips.

FWIW

 

[Scalma]

I think PA and NO will gladly pay the LT, just that it has to be done strategically.

Only two teams paid the LT last year: the Cavs and the Clips.

FWIW

Eventually all the top teams will. I know OKC is on that list now.

 

[Denny Crane]

Eventually all the top teams will. I know OKC is on that list now.

Right.

My position is if we could have traded the TPE for Paul George, it's a no brainer.

Shump is not even close to being worth it.

That's the "strategic" part .

The Warriors are going to pay the LT for the next few years, but they're not yet at risk of being a repeater. They are paying the tax to keep together an already championship team, looking like a dynasty.

OKC added two superstars to a 47 win team (6th best in the West) and feel they have a shot. It's not like they're expecting a ~.500 season and fight for the 5th through 8th seed.

The Cavs paid $70M+ in tax the past two seasons and would love to dump Shump to get close or under this year. They signed DRose and DWade for bargain prices.

 

[Scalma]

I'm not expecting a .500 record and an 8th seed either. With Nurkic we are a top 5 team in the west. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be trying to contend.

 

[dviss1]

Why would Chicago agree to this? I don't get it.

Who they gonna trade him to?

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm not expecting a .500 record and an 8th seed either. With Nurkic we are a top 5 team in the west. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be trying to contend.

I hope so. Then I see NO taking a shot with the TPE. But I don't see why he shouldn't keep his powder dry until that's demonstrably true.