Bulls want Bayless

[hasoos]

Er...what do you think the Jazz want more, whoever they get back in a trade for Boozer or our cap space which lowers their luxury tax payment?

Why wouldn't Utah just match our offer and then wait for Boozers contract to expire in a year, and only eat the cap issues for one year? That's what I would do. Its basically the same situation they wanted now, just one year later.

 

[TheFreshPrince]

Er...what do you think the Jazz want more, whoever they get back in a trade for Boozer or our cap space which lowers their luxury tax payment?

I"m sure they could get it done. Tyrus for boozer is a pretty good deal for both parties, and I'm just saying, you guys keeping loading up on these young guys and don't play em so pretty soon they'll be off their rookie contracts and want to actually play somewhere. If you don't plan on playing bayless then why is it such a big deal to put him in this trade? You get your guy for a bench player??

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I"m sure they could get it done. Tyrus for boozer is a pretty good deal for both parties,

...and a deal that Utah and Chicago can't do by themselves, because both are at the cap. Next!

 

[Minstrel]

Look, we're losing our cap space, Bayless, and likely another player (Blake, Outlaw, or Webster) in this scenario. We need to receive back Kirk Hinrich and one of the following ....

- Deng
- Salmons
- Noah

Deng, perhaps. Salmons and Noah, no. Salmons had a career year but is generally a mediocrity. Noah is a decent, hustle big man...but not anywhere near worth Bayless, to me.

Even Deng...I was willing to have Portland take on that risk as a salary dump. If Portland also has to wager their only high-upside player at point guard, I think Deng stops being interesting to me.

 

[maxiep]

I"m sure they could get it done. Tyrus for boozer is a pretty good deal for both parties, and I'm just saying, you guys keeping loading up on these young guys and don't play em so pretty soon they'll be off their rookie contracts and want to actually play somewhere. If you don't plan on playing bayless then why is it such a big deal to put him in this trade? You get your guy for a bench player??

We plan on playing Bayless. We traded our backup PG. If we acquire Hinrich, we're trading Blake. And the NBA allows us to pay our own players the most, so they can play for less after their rookie contracts are up.

It's not our job to make other teams better just because we have a deep team.

 

[maxiep]

...and a deal that Utah and Chicago can't do by themselves, because both are at the cap. Next!

Thank you. I am tired of explaining the CBA to people who just don't get it.

 

[TheFreshPrince]

...and a deal that Utah and Chicago can't do by themselves, because both are at the cap. Next!

pretty sure utah can just resign boozer and keep him.....

 

[maxiep]

Why wouldn't Utah just match our offer and then wait for Boozers contract to expire in a year, and only eat the cap issues for one year? That's what I would do. Its basically the same situation they wanted now, just one year later.

Okay. You're the Miller family, and your main source of revenue is the car business, which is going swimmingly. Furthermore, you're now paying death taxes in the eight or nine figures. The Jazz management come to you and ask you to pay another $16-$20MM (including the luxury tax) for a backup PF when you know this team isn't competing for a championship.

Good luck with that.

 

[TheFreshPrince]

It's not our job to make other teams better just because we have a deep team.

Your "deep" team is full of unproven young guys. And i'm not trying to get you blazer fans riled up, i'm just saying that the trade involving bayless doesn't seem unfair to me at all. Everyone gets what they want. You can't just sit your young guys on the bench and expect everything to think they are great?? They gotta prove something first, and so far bayless hasn't proved much.

 

[Minstrel]

Your "deep" team is full of unproven young guys. And i'm not trying to get you blazer fans riled up, i'm just saying that the trade involving bayless doesn't seem unfair to me at all. Everyone gets what they want. You can't just sit your young guys on the bench and expect everything to think they are great?? They gotta prove something first, and so far bayless hasn't proved much.

Neither had Rose last off-season. Were you in favour of trading him for a decent 28 year old?

If you're not a fan of Bayless, great. I'm not trying to convince you that he's "great" (which he isn't yet, in the NBA, of course). Most of us are just not in favour of trading a pretty high-upside prospect in addition to a lot of cap space for an okay guard.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

You're not getting Bayless.

I'm sure Chicago would want him in this deal, a deal which lands them Boozer, but that's such a pipedream on Chicago's part.

 

[RR7]

If he's proven nothing, then it doesn't seem like him NOT being included should hold the deal up. I'm sure because he has proven nothing, Chicago wouldn't mind not having him in there, right?

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Jesus. It's like some of you refuse to read up on this stuff, even after it's explained over and over and ...

 

[maxiep]

Your "deep" team is full of unproven young guys. And i'm not trying to get you blazer fans riled up, i'm just saying that the trade involving bayless doesn't seem unfair to me at all. Everyone gets what they want. You can't just sit your young guys on the bench and expect everything to think they are great?? They gotta prove something first, and so far bayless hasn't proved much.

He seems to have proved something to Chicago that they'd be willing to trade the #4 pick in the 2006 draft for him.

 

[LittleAlex]

Deng, perhaps. Salmons and Noah, no. Salmons had a career year but is generally a mediocrity. Noah is a decent, hustle big man...but not anywhere near worth Bayless, to me.

Even Deng...I was willing to have Portland take on that risk as a salary dump. If Portland also has to wager their only high-upside player at point guard, I think Deng stops being interesting to me.

I think Hinrich + Noah would easily be worth Bayless + <insert random scrub>. Noah would be an excellent 3rd guy in a three man front court rotation. He could come in for both Oden and LA depending on the situation.

Though he might walk away in a year. I think, though I am not sure, that he is still under his rookie contract.

 

[RoyToy]

I think Hinrich + Noah would easily be worth Bayless + <insert random scrub>. Noah would be an excellent 3rd guy in a three man front court rotation. He could come in for both Oden and LA depending on the situation.

Though he might walk away in a year. I think, though I am not sure, that he is still under his rookie contract.

That Przybilla guy aint bad.

 

[TheFreshPrince]

I"m done here lol, you guys are overvaluing your guys sooooo much. Hinrich is better than any pg on your roster, OBVIOUSLY otherwise you wouldn't want him. Your only real hole is pg, so why hold up the deal because you have this barely second string young guy with potential? If you want to win now, bayless isn't doing shit on your roster. With hinrich, who is very good,you have a chance to do somehting. You can't get rip off everyone in every deal.

 

[Minstrel]

I think Hinrich + Noah would easily be worth Bayless + <insert random scrub>. Noah would be an excellent 3rd guy in a three man front court rotation. He could come in for both Oden and LA depending on the situation.

You might be forgetting that it also involves all of Portland's cap space (I'm not sure if you are forgetting that or don't care). $8 million in cap space for Hinrich is relatively reasonable. I don't know if I'd sign Hinrich to an $8 million / year deal if he were a UFA, but it might not be unreasonable considering you have to overpay in free agency.

So it boils down to Bayless for Noah. No way, in my opinion. All three of Oden/Aldridge/Pryzbilla are better than Noah. Bayless is currently Portland's only hope for a significantly above-average long-term solution at the other guard spot and I like his talent a lot. I wouldn't deal him for a decent backup, especially when Portland already has three good to very good big men.

 

[Tortimer]

Fuck no. Hinrich is ok and an upgrade over Blake but IMO maybe next year Bayless will be better then Hinrich.

Also who the hell would want Deng they would have to give us a lot to take him with his contract.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

No thanks. Hinrich is barely a step up from Blake.

Millsap >>> Hinrich

You could add about ten more of '>' when you factor in trading Bayless.

Move along.

 

[Minstrel]

I"m done here lol, you guys are overvaluing your guys sooooo much. Hinrich is better than any pg on your roster, OBVIOUSLY otherwise you wouldn't want him..

He's better than any point guard Portland has currently, yes, but not much better. A small gain from Blake to Hinrich isn't worth losing a very talented prospect who could be an impact player in a year or two, as far as I'm concerned.

Some of us might be overvaluing the players on our favourite team, but it's hardly like you are objective.

 

[hasoos]

Okay. You're the Miller family, and your main source of revenue is the car business, which is going swimmingly. Furthermore, you're now paying death taxes in the eight or nine figures. The Jazz management come to you and ask you to pay another $16-$20MM (including the luxury tax) for a backup PF when you know this team isn't competing for a championship.

Good luck with that.

You know for all you just stated, you know nothing of their financial conditions, and secondly, the Jazz would have been competing for a championship last year had the injury bug not hit them really hard. They are no different on paper than the team from the year before which was rather successful. You seem to have a short memory. Maybe you should try some Ginko or something.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Deng, perhaps. Salmons and Noah, no. Salmons had a career year but is generally a mediocrity. Noah is a decent, hustle big man...but not anywhere near worth Bayless, to me.

Even Deng...I was willing to have Portland take on that risk as a salary dump. If Portland also has to wager their only high-upside player at point guard, I think Deng stops being interesting to me.

True. I guess I'm trying to find something that would be more palatable. It's just not working, is it?

I could see these three players being good fits.

Regardless, if Chicago's going to want THIS much talent, Portland's wasting their time with them. Let's move on.

 

[RR7]

I"m done here lol, you guys are overvaluing your guys sooooo much. Hinrich is better than any pg on your roster, OBVIOUSLY otherwise you wouldn't want him. Your only real hole is pg, so why hold up the deal because you have this barely second string young guy with potential? If you want to win now, bayless isn't doing shit on your roster. With hinrich, who is very good,you have a chance to do somehting. You can't get rip off everyone in every deal.

See, and we can go aroudn and around with this. Carlos Boozer is better than any PF on your roster. And to hold up a deal for him because you want Bayless, a barely second string guy?

Or, along the same lines, Carlos Boozer is better than any PF on your roster. To hold up a deal for him because of the inclusion of Tyrus Thomas, a young guy with a lot of potential??

See how that works? Portland doesn't need to help either Chicago or Utah out. yes, they get somehting good out of it. So do all teams. Chicago seems ot be the one causing the problem, because they want a barely second srting PG included. They're already getting the best player in the deal. So no.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

The obsession with Hinrich makes me sick. If he's our starting PG next season I'm going to throw up. He's certainly not worth Bayless.

 

[TheFreshPrince]

See, and we can go aroudn and around with this. Carlos Boozer is better than any PF on your roster. And to hold up a deal for him because you want Bayless, a barely second string guy?

Or, along the same lines, Carlos Boozer is better than any PF on your roster. To hold up a deal for him because of the inclusion of Tyrus Thomas, a young guy with a lot of potential??

See how that works? Portland doesn't need to help either Chicago or Utah out. yes, they get somehting good out of it. So do all teams. Chicago seems ot be the one causing the problem, because they want a barely second srting PG included. They're already getting the best player in the deal. So no.

Hahaha, not the same at all. Portland gives up cap space, for a legit pg. Bulls give up tyrus thomas (a young guy who HAS proven he can play sometimes, and still has plenty potential) and Hinrich (a legit starting pg as well as a combo guard, good shooter and defender, all around great player). The bulls are making a legit trade, while you guys are making away with hinrich for some cap space, and they want you to throw in a iffy young guy and that is a problem? sorry, i just don't get it. i would love for the twolves to get a legit sg for cap space and hell, i'd give up flynn for a legit sg and cap space haha.

this isn't going anywhere though, you think all your guys are studs, even though they don't play. If they don't play, they lose their value. pretty simple concept.

 

[ODENISGOD]

surpise surpise JP and all his fans are over valuing there own players again! Bayless has no future here with roy running the show and he he NOT a point guard

 

[LittleAlex]

You might be forgetting that it also involves all of Portland's cap space (I'm not sure if you are forgetting that or don't care). $8 million in cap space for Hinrich is relatively reasonable. I don't know if I'd sign Hinrich to an $8 million / year deal if he were a UFA, but it might not be unreasonable considering you have to overpay in free agency.

So it boils down to Bayless for Noah. No way, in my opinion. All three of Oden/Aldridge/Pryzbilla are better than Noah. Bayless is currently Portland's only hope for a significantly above-average long-term solution at the other guard spot and I like his talent a lot. I wouldn't deal him for a decent backup, especially when Portland already has three good to very good big men.

Actually I would trade Bayless for Noah straight up so our opinions differ. I think Noah is a world class rebounder and a decent defender at his position. Bayless hasn't proven yet that he can play point. If he can't, then he is just another short 2 guard.

I will consistently take the proven player who is still getting better over the unproven player who might get better. In this case, Noah has proven himself to be an NBA player. Bayless hasn't...yet.

Truth be told, I would prefer the deal include Rudy instead of Bayless. I would have to think the Bulls would feel the same way.

As I said in a different post, Rudy + <random couple of scrubs> + cap space for Hinrich and Deng would be an amazing deal.

 

[Minstrel]

I will consistently take the proven player who is still getting better over the unproven player who might get better.

I won't "consistently" do anything. Each case is different, and it depends on how good the proven player is and what the upside of the unproven one is. If you were Chicago last off-season, would you have traded Derrick Rose for David Lee? One was proven, one wasn't.

As I said in a different post, Rudy + <random couple of scrubs> + cap space for Hinrich and Deng would be an amazing deal.

I'd be pretty favourable to that deal. I value Fernandez less than Bayless and I value Deng more than Noah.

Of course, Rudy is the more proven player, Bayless isn't. So even you won't "consistently" take proven over potential.

 

[Tortimer]

Actually I would trade Bayless for Noah straight up so our opinions differ. I think Noah is a world class rebounder and a decent defender at his position. Bayless hasn't proven yet that he can play point. If he can't, then he is just another short 2 guard.

I will consistently take the proven player who is still getting better over the unproven player who might get better. In this case, Noah has proven himself to be an NBA player. Bayless hasn't...yet.

Truth be told, I would prefer the deal include Rudy instead of Bayless. I would have to think the Bulls would feel the same way.

As I said in a different post, Rudy + <random couple of scrubs> + cap space for Hinrich and Deng would be an amazing deal.

Fuck no I don't even want Noah if they gave him to us free. Bayless is going to be a star in the NBA if he is ever given the chance. Noah is lucky to be playing in the NBA. Bayless will be a star for us or someone else if we make the mistake and trade him.