Business Tries to Stop San Diego's Minimum Wage Hike

[magnifier661]

Also, the min wage average is skewed. Servers are normally older because they can still make a living with tips

 

[Denny Crane]

I havent really seen any good examples of the business you mention that are being hardshiped. So far we have Dennys Maritime Shop and MacDonalds/walmart/burger king/etc. What else can we add to the list? Give me some good examples of quality jobs that might be effected and I might change my mind.

Raise it to $100/hr. After all, where's the harm?

 

[donkiez]

The easy one is food services. Resturant owners pay min wage so they can have good prices. The server makes tips, which gives them incentive to work for minimum wage. Once the Resturant owners have to pay higher wage, they have a large hardship to keep the doors open.

many states have server wages that are far below minimum wage because of tips, CA and OR are not one of those states I believe though and I dont agree with that either. We have plenty of restaurants and if one owner is solely making a living based on cheap labor then I dont think they are running a good business. All restaurants wont go out of business, Hooters (thats for you sly) will still be around because they have another catch or reason to bring clients in. My food service business would not have gone under if I had to pay my employees more money, but it would have hurt if it was an overnight change.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

many states have server wages that are far below minimum wage because of tips, CA and OR are not one of those states I believe though and I dont agree with that either. We have plenty of restaurants and if one owner is solely making a living based on cheap labor then I dont think they are running a good business. All restaurants wont go out of business, Hooters (thats for you sly) will still be around because they have another catch or reason to bring clients in. My food service business would not have gone under if I had to pay my employees more money, but it would have hurt if it was an overnight change.

Denny is the one who used Hooters as an example.

I just like boobs.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Denny is the one who used Hooters as an example.

I just like boobs.

Post of the day! repped

 

[donkiez]

What you'll end up with is fewer workers with jobs.

The earned income tax credit actually directly addresses those who need help. The minimum wage is a direct intrusion in commerce and is tilting at windmills.

That doesnt sound very libertarian of you.

Isnt a basic income guarantee better than the current welfare state?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Post of the day! repped

Rep'd for your rep.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Walmart’s low-wage workers cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $6.2 billion in public assistance including food stamps, Medicaid and subsidized housing, according to a report published to coincide with Tax Day, April 15.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoc...t-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/

 

[Denny Crane]

Walmart’s low-wage workers cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $6.2 billion in public assistance including food stamps, Medicaid and subsidized housing, according to a report published to coincide with Tax Day, April 15.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoc...t-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/

Walmart is subsidizing those workers' benefits. Instead of being unemployed and needing 100% of their living off govt. programs, only some fraction need a fraction of their living from govt.

 

[Denny Crane]

Walmart

https://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=WMT

 

[barfo]

Walmart is subsidizing those workers' benefits. Instead of being unemployed and needing 100% of their living off govt. programs, only some fraction need a fraction of their living from govt.

Wow, that's awfully generous of Walmart to do that. They are just a great big charity, giving money to poor people so they won't be on welfare.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Wow, that's awfully generous of Walmart to do that. They are just a great big charity, giving money to poor people so they won't be on welfare.

barfo

If not Walmart, where would they be? How about they quit Walmart and go to your fantasyland job.

 

[Denny Crane]

Walmart has 10,500 stores. Their profit is $15B. That works out to less than $1.5M per store. The stores have about 300 employees each. The average worker makes $25K.

Take all the $1.4M profit and divide among the 300 workers and they make $29K instead of $25K. Better, but still a shitty job.

Bag on them all you want, but they're a very low margin business at 3.3%.

Their revenue is $450B. That's larger than all but about 25 nations. I pick a nation at random, Argentina, that has about a $450B GDP. The average Walmart employee makes over $2K per month. The average Argentinian worker makes $1100.

If not Walmart, then where?

 

[barfo]

Bag on them all you want, but they're a very low margin business at 3.3%.

By their own design.

Their revenue is $450B. That's larger than all but about 25 nations. I pick a nation at random, Argentina, that has about a $450B GDP. The average Walmart employee makes over $2K per month. The average Argentinian worker makes $1100.

That's a pretty silly comparison, since Walmart workers (mostly?) don't live in Argentina.

If not Walmart, then where?

The ma and pa stores that Walmart replaced? It's not exactly consistent to decry the demise of small businesses and yet, in the same thread, promote Walmart as the exemplar of corporate goodwill.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

By their own design.



That's a pretty silly comparison, since Walmart workers (mostly?) don't live in Argentina.



The ma and pa stores that Walmart replaced? It's not exactly consistent to decry the demise of small businesses and yet, in the same thread, promote Walmart as the exemplar of corporate goodwill.

barfo

Walmart doesn't displace all small businesses. Not even close to that.

But surely if Walmart doesn't follow YOUR design, everyone who works there should be and there'd be no Walmart. But there's that fantasyland thing again, and then there's the reality that Walmart is HUUUUUGE.

Walmart sells stuff that Obamanomics inflictees can afford. There's obviously a need for it because so many people buy stuff there.

Walmart still does better for its employees than a whole nation with the same national income.

So do you think it matters if you add a 0 to the end of a person's paycheck if you also add a 0 to the end of what they have to spend on food and gasoline and rent?

 

[barfo]

Walmart doesn't displace all small businesses. Not even close to that.

Obviously. Your marine memorabilia store, for instance.

But surely if Walmart doesn't follow YOUR design, everyone who works there should be and there'd be no Walmart.

I can't even parse that. No idea what you are trying to say.

There's obviously a need for it because so many people buy stuff there.

There's demand for it, most certainly. Need is a whole 'nother matter.

Walmart still does better for its employees than a whole nation with the same national income.

GDP is not the same thing as revenue, and revenue is not the same thing as income.

So do you think it matters if you add a 0 to the end of a person's paycheck if you also add a 0 to the end of what they have to spend on food and gasoline and rent?

Depends. Someone who spends all their pay on food and gasoline and rent, it won't make any difference. Someone who makes significantly more than that should be very very happy to have both multiplied by 10.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

barfo,

You say Walmart is a low margin business by their own design. Well, if someone can design something better, where is it? Why do employees even work for Walmart when your fantasyland better design must be out there?

While the main street here has many empty stores, it also has many stores that aren't. They're all going to suffer or raise prices. If they raise prices, the people who get the higher minimum wage will be paying more for everything so they lose the benefit of the higher wage. Everyone else, too.

GDP is national income. You like links.

 

[magnifier661]

I am going to have to agree with Denny on many of his points. Artificially inflating the minimum wage doesn't mean their quality of life will get better. It's only going to drive up pricing to equal itself out.

Any successful business has a business model based on profit percentage. Adding to their cost only adds to their price hikes.

 

[Denny Crane]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_income_tax_credit

The United States federal earned income tax credit or earned income credit (EITC or EIC) is a refundable tax credit for low to moderate income working individuals and couples—particularly those with children. The amount of EITC benefit depends on a recipient’s income and number of children. For a person or couple to claim one or more persons as their qualifying child(ren), the relationship, age, and shared residency requirements must be met, as well as some other requirements. In the 2013 tax year, working families with children that have annual incomes below $37,870 to $51,567 (depending on the number of dependent children) may be eligible for the federal EITC. Workers without children that have incomes below about $14,340 ($19,680 for a married couple) can receive a very small EITC benefit. U.S. tax forms 1040EZ, 1040A, or 1040 can be used to claim EITC without qualifying children. To claim the credit with qualifying children, 1040A or 1040 must be used along with Schedule EITC attached.[1]

EIC phases in slowly, has a medium-length plateau, and then phases out more slowly than it phased in. And since the credit phases out at 21% (more than one qualifying child) or 16% (one qualifying child), it is always preferable to have one more dollar of actual salary or wages (although technically, since the EIC table moves by fifty dollar increments, it's always preferable to have an extra fifty-dollar increment of salary or wages).

For tax year 2013, the maximum EITC benefit for a single person or couple filing without qualifying children is $487. The maximum EITC with one qualifying child is $3,250, with two children it is $5,372, and with three or more qualifying children it is $6,044.[2][3][4] These amounts are indexed annually for inflation.

$487 is $.23/hour for 2080 hours (full time). If the person works less than 40 hours a week, it boosts his/her pay by even more.

$3250 is $1.56/hour full time.

$5372 is $2.58/hour.

$6044 is $2.91/hour.

The only point in raising minimum wage is the idiotic concept of "economic justice."

The EITC actually goes to the people who need the help, not to the wives of rich guys who work for the fun of it at a minimum wage job.

 

[barfo]

barfo,

You say Walmart is a low margin business by their own design. Well, if someone can design something better, where is it?

Better in what sense? Walmart is obviously a very successful business ($15B in profit). Very large scale, low prices, they make a lot of money on volume, they intentionally keep their margins low so that competitors cannot match their pricing. That's what I meant by their own design.

While the main street here has many empty stores, it also has many stores that aren't. They're all going to suffer or raise prices. If they raise prices, the people who get the higher minimum wage will be paying more for everything so they lose the benefit of the higher wage. Everyone else, too.

That's a bit simplistic. Not every business relies primarily on minimum wage workers, so not every business would need to raise prices if the minimum wage goes up.

GDP is national income.

That's also a bit simplistic.

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

Tauting higher minimum wage is what democrats do to buy votes from those with votes to sell for damn near nothing.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Tauting higher minimum wage is what democrats do to buy votes from those with votes to sell for damn near nothing.

What are your thoughts on Hooters?

 

[MarAzul]

What are your thoughts on Hooters?

I have supported them when possible.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I have supported them when possible.

You must spread some rep around before giving it to Marazul again.

 

[Denny Crane]

Better in what sense? Walmart is obviously a very successful business ($15B in profit). Very large scale, low prices, they make a lot of money on volume, they intentionally keep their margins low so that competitors cannot match their pricing. That's what I meant by their own design.



That's a bit simplistic. Not every business relies primarily on minimum wage workers, so not every business would need to raise prices if the minimum wage goes up.



That's also a bit simplistic.

barfo

You are on the wrong side of the argument yet again. I realize the facts don't fit your world view, but them's the breaks.

Inflation is the enemy, not businesses of any size.

If people need assistance, we have programs for that. Why do we want to put people out of work only to rely on welfare?

Let them eat cake!
-- barfo

 

[barfo]

You are on the wrong side of the argument yet again. I realize the facts don't fit your world view, but them's the breaks.

That's not an argument. That's just posturing.

Inflation is the enemy, not businesses of any size.

maybe you can get that printed on a bumper sticker, it's pretty catchy.
I'm not really sure inflation is our biggest economic issue right now, frankly.

If people need assistance, we have programs for that.

Hey kids, it's Big Government Denny! Who wants a handout?

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

I don't have much of a choice but to pay taxes. They have guns and they'll throw me in jail if I don't. So may as well get my $1 worth.

What's the point, barfo? If you want to make poor people not poor, do what government does best - write checks. It's way cheaper and way more effective. Don't need 150 programs to hand out the money piecemeal. One will do. Income tax return.

So you see, you are on the wrong side of the argument.

 

[barfo]

I don't have much of a choice but to pay taxes. They have guns and they'll throw me in jail if I don't. So may as well get my $1 worth.

You could move to one of those abandoned drilling rigs and declare it independent DennyLand. It would be a great place for a marine memorabilia shop.

What's the point, barfo? If you want to make poor people not poor, do what government does best - write checks. It's way cheaper and way more effective.

Uh, ok

Whatever you say. Don't let me get in the way of your welfare state.

So you see, you are on the wrong side of the argument.

Ok, thanks for explaining that. I'll switch sides now.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Sounds like a proper concession. Good for you.

Though a tax rebate is not a welfare state. Getting rid of the 150 programs that all try to accomplish the same thing is getting rid of the welfare state.

 

[magnifier661]

That's not an argument. That's just posturing.



maybe you can get that printed on a bumper sticker, it's pretty catchy.
I'm not really sure inflation is our biggest economic issue right now, frankly.



Hey kids, it's Big Government Denny! Who wants a handout?

barfo

Wait a minute.... Democrats are for big government!